Poll Finds Rift Between U.S. Catholics and Church

[CMatt25]

Catholics said that while their parish priests were in touch with their needs, the church and most American bishops were not.

This doesn’t exactly surprise me either. A lot of Catholics I think probably do connect with Catholicism at their local parish level more so. It’s where they attend Mass. Participate in service and in activities. Where they fellowship.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Oh, the NY Times poll. Therefore it must be true

 

[_Abyssinia]

The poll does not differentiate between practicing Catholics from those that call themselves Catholic but do not pratice the faith or know much about the faith so the poll is not an accurate representation of the way practising Catholics feel about the Church

christiantoday.co.uk/article/regular.churchgoers.preferred.romney.poll.finds/31005.htm

Among the nation’s Catholics, half voted for Obama and 48 per cent for Romney.

---

Among Catholic voters who said they regularly attend mass, 67 per cent voted for Romney compared to 32 per cent for Obama, representing a swing of 35 per cent in the direction of the Republicans since 2008.

A change in the question on practice changes the result

 

[rfournier103]

Thank GOD the election of the new pope isn’t in the hands of the laity.

I second that. If the laity elected the pope, we’d have the same chaos and wishy-washy theology that the Protestants have. I like consistancy; not deciding every four years what our position about blank is going to be.

As another poster said; people keep baptizing their babies in Catholic Churches, and the media keeps talking about the Church. We’re relavent; and I laugh because so many people whine about the Church’s social doctrines, yet they crave the Church’s approval at the same time. Someone should write a paper about it…

 

[kita04]

These Catholics are probably the Catholics who voted for Obama or voted 3rd party because Mitt Romney wasn’t Jesus.

I absolutely agree. I know a few in my parish that voted for Obama just because he is a democrat. I explained to this person that my religion and values come before my politics and hers should too. She is close to 80yrs old. She is my aunt and a life long democrat.

 

[livingwordunity]

Jesus was sentenced to death because of the way a popular opinion poll went.

 

[PaulinVA]

This doesn’t exactly surprise me either. A lot of Catholics I think probably do connect with Catholicism at their local parish level more so. It’s where they attend Mass. Participate in service and in activities. Where they fellowship.

Is it also because at the parish level the priests are more liberal, more willing to tell a parishioner not to worry about using contraception or being in an irregular marriage?

 

[livnlern]

The NY Times is one of the leaders in slanted journalism.
And who are these Catholics they’re polling? Probably faithful readers of their rag of a newspaper.

 

[stewstew03]

The poll does not differentiate between practicing Catholics from those that call themselves Catholic but do not pratice the faith or know much about the faith so the poll is not an accurate representation of the way practising Catholics feel about the Church
…

There is an interactive feature that allows the user to display results from those that attend mass weekly, versus those that don’t; males vs females; age bracket; etc.

I was interested in the results of those who attend mass weekly:

• 53% have a favorable view of PB16
• 47% think the US bishops are in touch with today’s Catholics (vs 39% who think they’re out of touch)
• 53% want the next pope to either continue the same teachings as PB16 or change to more conservative teachings (vs 40% who want a more “liberal” pope)
• 51% think the government restricts religious liberty
• 70% think the next pope should be against legalized abortion
• 57% think the next pope should allow women to join the priesthood
• 61% think the next pope should allow priests to marry

What would be interesting to see is a breakdown of the 580 Catholics included in the survey, which would matter in terms of generalizability. In other words, although 61% of those that attend mass weekly think the next pope should allow priests to marry, we don’t know the sample size of this 61%. Of the 580, how many attend mass weekly? How many attend mass once a year? One would need to know these characteristics before taking the survey seriously.

 

[livnlern]

I second that. If the laity elected the pope, we’d have the same chaos and wishy-washy theology that the Protestants have. I like consistancy; not deciding every four years what our position about blank is going to be.

As another poster said; people keep baptizing their babies in Catholic Churches, and the media keeps talking about the Church. We’re relavent; and I laugh because so many people whine about the Church’s social doctrines, yet they crave the Church’s approval at the same time. Someone should write a paper about it…

That’s because the Church is the last bastion of hope against the evils of the world and it’s the only religious institution that’s united enough to speak out against these evils. And when I say united, I mean one leader: the pope and enough faithful, traditional Catholics to back him up.

 

[Lost_and_Found_1]

April32010

I respectfully disagree. IMO, the Pope was clearly telling us that if we don’t believe the word of God, the honest thing to do is leave.

“Finally, Jesus knew that even among the twelve apostles there was one that did not believe: Judas. Judas could have left, as many of the disciples did; indeed, he would have left if he were honest. Instead he remained with Jesus. He did not remain because of faith, or because of love, but with the secret intention of taking vengeance on the Master. Why? Because Judas felt betrayed by Jesus, and decided that he in turn would betray Him. Judas was a Zealot, and wanted a triumphant Messiah, who would lead a revolt against the Romans. Jesus had disappointed those expectations. The problem is that Judas did not go away, and his most serious fault was falsehood, which is the mark of the devil. This is why Jesus said to the Twelve: “One of you is a devil” (John 6.70). We pray to the Virgin Mary, help us to believe in Jesus, as St. Peter did, and to always be sincere with Him and with all people.”

“Dear seminarians, use your time in Rome to conform yourselves more completely to Christ. Indeed, may all of us remain faithful to the Lord, even when our faith in his teachings is tested. May God bless you all!”

 

[stewstew03]

There is an interactive feature that allows the user to display results from those that attend mass weekly, versus those that don’t; males vs females; age bracket; etc.

I was interested in the results of those who attend mass weekly:

• 53% have a favorable view of PB16
• 47% think the US bishops are in touch with today’s Catholics (vs 39% who think they’re out of touch)
• 53% want the next pope to either continue the same teachings as PB16 or change to more conservative teachings (vs 40% who want a more “liberal” pope)
• 51% think the government restricts religious liberty
• 70% think the next pope should be against legalized abortion
• 57% think the next pope should allow women to join the priesthood
• 61% think the next pope should allow priests to marry

What would be interesting to see is a breakdown of the 580 Catholics included in the survey, which would matter in terms of generalizability. In other words, although 61% of those that attend mass weekly think the next pope should allow priests to marry, we don’t know the sample size of this 61%. Of the 580, how many attend mass weekly? How many attend mass once a year? One would need to know these characteristics before taking the survey seriously.

UPDATE

I was reviewing the methodology, and the sample is actually composed of 1,585 adults. They over-sampled Catholics in an effort to generalize the results. In other words, only 37% of the sample includes actual Catholics. Here’s the relevant portion of the methodology:

“For purposes of analysis, Roman Catholics were oversampled in this poll. Self-identified Catholics from the last 11 national polls by The Times and CBS News were called again for the new poll, and their responses were added to those of Catholics in the new sample. Total Catholics were then adjusted to equal the Catholic share of the total population as determined by all Times and CBS News polls during 2012.” Click here for more.

 

[_Abyssinia]

There is an interactive feature that allows the user to display results from those that attend mass weekly, versus those that don’t; males vs females; age bracket; etc.

I was interested in the results of those who attend mass weekly:

• 53% have a favorable view of PB16
• 47% think the US bishops are in touch with today’s Catholics (vs 39% who think they’re out of touch)
• 53% want the next pope to either continue the same teachings as PB16 or change to more conservative teachings (vs 40% who want a more “liberal” pope)
• 51% think the government restricts religious liberty
• 70% think the next pope should be against legalized abortion
• 57% think the next pope should allow women to join the priesthood
• 61% think the next pope should allow priests to marry

What would be interesting to see is a breakdown of the 580 Catholics included in the survey, which would matter in terms of generalizability. In other words, although 61% of those that attend mass weekly think the next pope should allow priests to marry, we don’t know the sample size of this 61%. Of the 580, how many attend mass weekly? How many attend mass once a year? One would need to know these characteristics before taking the survey seriously.

catholicleague.org/ny-times-survey-of-catholics

Bill Donohue comments on some of the findings from a survey of self-identified Catholics as reported in today’s New York Times:

Whether someone who “attends Mass a few times a year or never” can be considered Catholic is debatable, but at any rate those responses make for interesting reading when compared to those who “attend Mass weekly.”

The majority of weekly attendees have a favorable view of Pope Benedict XVI; only a quarter of those who rarely attend feel the same way. Regarding recent papal events, 72% of weekly attendees have been closely following the news stories, while only 35% of those who rarely attend have been doing so. The majority of weekly church-goers would like to see the new pope either continue Benedict’s teachings or adopt more conservative ones. Among the no-shows, only 20% agree with that position (66% want more liberal teachings).

Not surprisingly, weekly attendees see the healthcare insurance debate as a religious liberty issue, but nominal Catholics see it as a matter of women’s health. Regular church-goers want the next pope to be against abortion (70%) and the death penalty (67%), but the figures for lax Catholics are 45% and 50% respectively. In other words, those who rarely or never attend Mass are more inclined to oppose the death penalty for a convicted murderer than they are to oppose the killing of innocents!

Surveys about celibacy, women’s ordination, and birth control have long found that most Catholics, including practicing ones, are open to change. In 1995, I commissioned a pollster to do a survey of Catholics on these issues. The question I was most interested in seeing the results for yielded a fascinating outcome: “If the Catholic church did not change its positions as many have suggested, how would that affect your commitment to the church?” An astonishing 83% said they would be just as committed, if not more so (for weekly attendees the figure was 90%).

In other words, while most Catholics are okay with making some changes, they value more highly the continuity of settled Church teachings.

 

[fix]

The poll appears to reflect the opinion of most of the Catholics that I know.

Including some that post here.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Oh ok thanks. I hadn’t seen your post. This is something though that causes me confusion. Such varying opinions on who is a Catholic. Who should leave. Who some want out. People don’t seem to agree on something so basic.

As I pointed out to you before, there are very many atheist Catholics. who can rightly call themselves both atheist and Catholic but that means they can’t receive communion as they are excommunicated from the church. Likewise any catholic who preaches heretical views contrary to the church’s teaching. no matter who they think they connect with. but they are still very much welcome and encouraged to attend mass while they ammend the error of their ways

 

[_Abyssinia]

catholicleague.org/inadequate-surveys

Bill Donohue comments on four recent surveys of Catholics:

The larger the sample size of any population, the more costly the survey, but the more accurate the findings. Catholics make up anywhere between 70 and 78 million Americans, but even a sample of 1,500 can yield relatively accurate results (the margin of error in such a survey would generally be 3 percentage points). Two surveys of Catholics published today did not come close to this baseline sample.

The New York Times poll sampled 580 Catholics; it had a 4 percentage point margin of error. The Pew Research Center sampled 184 Catholics, allowing a margin of error of 8.2 percentage points.

Such samples are inadequate. By contrast, a Rasmussen poll of Catholics published last month had a sample size of 1,000; the margin of error was 3 percentage points. Ten days ago, Gallup did a survey of just one subset of Catholics, Hispanics, and had a sample size of 28,607; its margin of error was only 1 percentage point.

There are lots of problems with even the best surveys, but when the sample size is ridiculously small, the findings cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Lucky7]

the Holy Father didn’t say that and for the Monsignor to infer that is overreaching on his part

*“Judas,” said Pope Benedict, “could have left, as many of the disciples did; indeed, he would have left if he were honest. Instead he remained with Jesus. He did not remain because of faith, or because of love, but with the secret intention of taking vengeance on the Master.” *

Did the Pope say exactly the same thing as the Monsignor? No. But is what the Monsignor said an overreach? No. I can see the parallels very clearly.

 

[Lucky7]

Is it also because at the parish level the priests are more liberal, more willing to tell a parishioner not to worry about using contraception or being in an irregular marriage?

winner winner, chicken dinner!

 

[Lucky7]

I was interested in the results of those who attend mass weekly:

• 53% have a favorable view of PB16
• 47% think the US bishops are in touch with today’s Catholics (vs 39% who think they’re out of touch)
• 53% want the next pope to either continue the same teachings as PB16 or change to more conservative teachings (vs 40% who want a more “liberal” pope)
• 51% think the government restricts religious liberty
• 70% think the next pope should be against legalized abortion
• 57% think the next pope should allow women to join the priesthood
• 61% think the next pope should allow priests to marry

I tend to agree with these results. This is not far off from what I would have guessed. The only result that surprised me was the bolded. I would have thought that to be at least 50%, but I guess 40% isn’t that far off and it’s still a significant percentage.

 

[Cojuanco]

winner winner, chicken dinner!

Well, from what I know, I don’t think the first is necessarily true. Especially after Our Dear Leader pulled the HHS thing, there have been several sermons by the parish priests round here about what the Church teaches about birth control. I don’t doubt that a lot probably haven’t been swayed, but not enough to get out. Incidentally, though, most of the priests that have done this are new to the parish (not necessarily young, one of the Dominicans near where I am is rather old, though he’s relatively new to the priesthood - late vocation and all that)

Irregular marriages, on the other hand…

As to the original topic, the Church isn’t a democracy; what I think is worth about as much as printing costs for a single page, and not much else. Thank God.