Poll for Sedevacantist's, which Popes are valid?

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Catholic29

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I am curious as to which Popes most Sedevacantist’s consider valid, and which they reject. It would nice to read some rationals as to why a certain Pope forfeited the Papacy.

Keep responses charitable and to the topic at hand, as I don’t desire to have this thread closed.
 
I am not a Sedevacantist but most see John XXIII and later as not valid / anti-popes …
 
Catholic29 said:
I am curious as to which Popes most Sedevacantist’s consider valid, and which they reject. It would nice to read some rationals as to why a certain Pope forfeited the Papacy.

Keep responses charitable and to the topic at hand, as I don’t desire to have this thread closed.
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What’s your point?
 
Catholic_Dude said:
The point is that there is no agreement among sedes when the chair became empty.
Some say Pius XII some John XXIII some Paul VI.
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I think the initiator of this thread has an agenda other than just being curious.

And I think I just fell into that trap. My bad. :eek:
 
Catholic_Dude said:
The point is that there is no agreement among sedes when the chair became empty.
Some say Pius XII some John XXIII some Paul VI.
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Paul VI??? Pleaaaasssse.
The only doubt is concerning J23 as he died without approving the final VATII documents.
That doubt is about 15-20% tops.
 
I think the initiator of this thread has an agenda other than just being curious.
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Possibly…some tend to think that any disunity is this area proves something about sedevacantist traditionalists…it does not, of course…it is to be expected.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
The point is that there is no agreement among sedes when the chair became empty.
Some say Pius XII some John XXIII some Paul VI.
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there is a general consensus amoung sedevacantists that John XIII though Benedict XVI were antipopes. i have yet to encounter a sedevacantist who thought that pius XII was an antipope. many sedevacantists like the monks from most holy family monastery believe that the see became vacant when john XIII was “invalidly elected” (they have a bunch of theories reguarding this)
 
I also don’t see the point of this whole poll. It is already quite clear that most sedevacantists consider Pius XII as the last legitimate Pope and all popes after him are heretics. And furthermore, a poll like this tends to give some undeserved legitimacy to what sedevacantists are carping about, an issue which orthodox Catholics consider as practically non-negotiable and non-debatable and hence a non-issue, namely the legitimacy and orthodoxy of the current Pope.
 
an issue which orthodox Catholics consider as practically non-negotiable and non-debatable and hence a non-issue, namely the legitimacy and orthodoxy of the current Pope.
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It seems to bother you. If it is not an issue for you, then why do you comment on it? Seriously…
 
TNT said:
Paul VI??? Pleaaaasssse.
The only doubt is concerning J23 as he died without approving the final VATII documents.
That doubt is about 15-20% tops.
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The fact J23 wasnt around to finish out the council and that Paul VI was **and **even made up a new mass means Paul VI is a perfect candidate for Sedes to target and some have.
 
gorman64 said:
It seems to bother you. If it is not an issue for you, then why do you comment on it? Seriously…
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For the same reason, why should sedevacantists even bother to comment about the orthodoxy of John Paul II or Benedict XVI when they consider the latter two Popes as heretics and aren’t even Popes in any sense of the word.
 
For the same reason, why should sedevacantists even bother to comment about the orthodoxy of John Paul II or Benedict XVI when they consider the latter two Popes as heretics and aren’t even Popes in any sense of the word.
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Because I believe Catholics are being deceived by false teachers (I am speaking of the “bishops” and their auxiliaries here)…If Ratzinger is a true pope, and the local bishop is a true bishop with jurisdiction…then we must obey them in everything but sin…but then we would be wrong in resisting them…but we must resist them to remain Catholic.

They are claiming to be true popes…and true bishops with authority…that is why I comment on them.
 
gorman64 said:
Because I believe Catholics are being deceived by false teachers (I am speaking of the “bishops” and their auxiliaries here)…If Ratzinger is a true pope, and the local bishop is a true bishop with jurisdiction…then we must obey them in everything but sin…but then we would be wrong in resisting them…but we must resist them to remain Catholic.

They are claiming to be true popes…and true bishops with authority…that is why I comment on them.
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and why aren’t they true popes?
 
gorman64 said:
Because I believe Catholics are being deceived by false teachers (I am speaking of the “bishops” and their auxiliaries here)…If Ratzinger is a true pope, and the local bishop is a true bishop with jurisdiction…then we must obey them in everything but sin…but then we would be wrong in resisting them…but we must resist them to remain Catholic.

They are claiming to be true popes…and true bishops with authority…that is why I comment on them.
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Oh, so it is OK for you to comment on things you disagree with but if someone does not agree with you they should keep their mouth shut! Is that what you believe?
 
Oh, so it is OK for you to comment on things you disagree with but if someone does not agree with you they should keep their mouth shut! Is that what you believe?
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No, I did not say any of that. I asked a non-rhetorical why…that’s all. Are you yelling at me sir/madame?..it certainly appears that way. Relax.
 
Okay, clearly we have some sedes on the thread, so could someone explain just why any of the Popes since Pius XII would not actually be Popes?
 
Man does this bring back memories…not good ones mind you!
I was raised sade-vacantist during my teen years…
If you are going to go mucking around in all that “back-end” matter you better be wearing a mighty high pair of mucking boots!

I listened to Fr.Corapi on EWTN and his theory on all this arguing is to walk away…the ones who are sade-vacantist are not here to listen…they are here to prove a point…theirs.
The others who are arguing in favor of Holy Mother Church are shouting into the wind. A wind of contention…not of the Holy Spirit…for He is not in contentious arguing.
Unless the Spirit moves their hearts to submission, humility and obedience the sade-vacantist will continue to embrace schism and even heresy. Schism that remains obdurate most often falls into heresy!
Logic will not prove your point! Reason will not prove your point!
History will not prove your point.
*My point *you may be asking yourself? Unless they have eyes to see…Humility and obedience…they will not see!
Unless the have ears to hear …grace and submission…they will not hear.
I feel very sorry for these mislead schismatics.
There is so much to learn and become in our Holy Catholic Faith…the spiritual life is so demanding…how is it that we have time for this type of argument…

“For thou art Peter and upon this Rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell WILL NOT PREVAIL.”

“Do you believe that I can do this?
Yes Lord I believe!”
 
gorman64 said:
No, I did not say any of that. I asked a non-rhetorical why…that’s all. Are you yelling at me sir/madame?..it certainly appears that way. Relax.
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No, I am not yelling. I am relaxed, it just seemed that when RobedWithLight disagreed with you, you asked why he even bothered to comment and said “If it is not an issue for you, then why do you comment on it? Seriously…” I am simply asking if the illegitimacy of the pope is not an issue for you, why comment on it. You are not going to get anyone to deny the legitimacy of the pope by what you post here. I think a coffee break would help you relax. By the way I am a male but please don’t call me ‘sir’, much too formal for my taste. May God grant you blessed Lent.
 
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