Poll: Majority of Australian Catholics back same sex marriage

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frobert said:
The basis of your argument is “separate but equal” but most people do not perceive that civil unions and civil marriages meet the bar of marriage equality
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My argument is the opposite: separate and unequal. Same sex marriage is a farce and a contradiction - an oxymoron. It is not now and can never be equal to true marriage between one man and one woman. I oppose same sex marriage with every fibre of my being. That said, homosexuals ought to be able to enter into contracts for the purposes of sharing assets. But they should not be allowed to adopt children together.
 
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That isn’t the way it is explained Catholics better at CAF when I say I am no longer catholic because I choose not to be.
 
Saxum said:
Same sex marriage is a farce and a contradiction - an oxymoron.
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That is not the belief or perception of civil marriage that most people hold, including many Christians and why marriage equality is seen as a civil rights issue instead of a moral one. I am not arguing you are correct or not, only that it is not a good argument.
 
frobert said:
That is not the belief or perception of civil marriage that most people hold, including many Christians and why marriage equality is seen as a civil rights issue instead of a moral one. I am not arguing you are correct or not, only that it is not a good argument.
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I don’t speak for other Christians but I know many who agree with me. Not that I need people to agree with my points; I’m happy to be in a minority of one. I speak for myself and I believe that so-called same sex marriage is a sham and an abuse of language. I believe marriage is between one man and one woman for life and that it’s primary aim is reproduction. Homosexuals cannot leave their father and mother and become one flesh; ergo, they cannot be married since marriage is really about becoming one flesh.
 
Saxum said:
What does the Bible say about marriage?

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

There is nothing in the Scriptures or Tradition that remotely supports the notion that two individuals of the same sex can get married.

… There is absolutely no doctrinal, theological or philosophical reason.
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I agree with this. However, a Christian might believe that civil marriage arrangements admitting same sex persons might do more good than harm and thus is worthy of support. This is a judgement comparing the consequences of one variant of civil law with another. It is contrary to my judgement, but I could be wrong.

Thus, I disagree with the following dogmatic statement, which fails to attribute any good will to the persons concerned:
Saxum said:
The ONLY reason any Christian would support so-called ‘same sex marriage’ is to side with the views of society.
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SuperLuigi said:
It’s not a popularity contest.
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Exactly. According to Fulton Sheen, we’re living in the fourth great crisis of the Church; one happens every 500 years. He said that this crisis is connected to the world i.e. will we leave the standard of Christ and go over to the standard of the world. He said that we have to stand with Christ and defend his doctrines; and that only dead bodies float downstream (by following the currents of the world) - the live body’s would swim against the current and resist the attacks against the Faith. Unfortunately, many within the Church have abandoned Christ and gone over to the world. Gay marriage is one of the litmus tests that we have to pass. Any acceptance of this worldly development is a rejection of Christ and his doctrine.
 
That’s because either you or the person explaining it are not fully
understanding.

It’s nuanced.

Yes, according to Canon Law, once you are baptized Catholic, you are always
Catholic. But this has everything to do with the administering of the
Sacarments and the subjugation of Canon Law.

Like I said before, a Baptised & Confirmed Catholic who leaves the Church
doesn’t have to be reconfirmed when he/she returns to the Faith. This
canon was put into place because some people believed that reverts should
be rebaptized and/or reconfirmed. This happens during the time of
Christian persecutions in the Roman Empire. The Church decided this was
not the case, that they only needed to go to confession.

Baptised Catholics are also still subjugated to Canon Law, even when they
leave the Church. This is why when a child is Baptised Catholic, leaves
the Church, marries outside the Church, and then reverts to the Faith;
his/her marriage is invalid (assuming he/she didn’t marry inside a Catholic
Church or receive a dispensation).

However, with all of this said; a person who doesn’t believe in Catholic
Teaching can effectively, in practice, stop being Catholic. For example:
my dad was Baptised & Confirmed in the Catholic Church, but he’s not
Catholic anymore. He wouldn’t even call himself Catholic. I also know
some agnostics and atheists who were baptized & confirmed Catholic; they
are NOT Catholic today. If you reject Jesus Christ you can’t continue to
be Catholic.

Same thing CAN happen with non-practicing Catholics. There is a difference
between a cafeteria Catholic who struggles with Church teaching and even a
dissent who publicly disagrees with the Church and still attends. I would
consider both of them still Catholic. But a person who doesn’t come to
Church and disagrees with everything the Church teaches (except for the
Divinity of Christ) really doesn’t believe or share the Catholic Faith.

It a very subjective thing.

It’s 100% true to say that objectively, once a Catholic always a Catholic.
But it’s also 100% true to say that subjectively there comes a point where
a Baptised Catholic is no longer Catholic.

The point of my original post was simple: polls that do not distinguish
Church attending Catholics vs non attending ones (Catholics in name only)
are skewing the results. If they want to report on the total number,
that’s fine, but also report the same test showing the difference between
the Church attending Catholics vs non-Church attending Catholics.

Afterall, saying something like 80% of Catholic think priests should marry
or birth control should be allowed doesn’t mean much when 80% of Catholics
don’t attend Mass. However, if the study went on to say “99% of non-mass
attending Catholics and 55% of mass attending Catholics think birth control
should be allowed” is very interesting (NOTE: I made those numbers up)

I pray I’m making sense from a logic point of view

God Bless
 
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Thank you so much for the explanation. I do understand everything you said,but find that most Catholics here do not. Your explanation was well laid out and informative.
 
They’ll soon see all the virtue signaling and smiley-faces aren’t worth it by a long-shot.
 
People are walking away from Christianity in general, including the Protestants. Society is and has been going secular since the 60s. Abortions abound and according to the Saints, people are going to hell like snowflakes falling in a blizzard. These times were foretold in the Bible from the very beginning. We as Catholics pray for the conversion of sinners. It is our duty to do so, and to live the example of Christ.

Yes, there are people who are giddy about the decline of the Church, there are people all over who are for SSM in and out of the Church. This does not include the faithful. Technically, if you are a real Catholic, you support church doctrine, if you don’t, you are not Catholic. That is just a fact.

This is and always has been about free will. The gate to heaven is narrow. We have known all along many will not make it, but we pray that as many as possible are saved. Life is wonderful at times and very hard at others. Resisting sin is tough, especially for me. At the end of the day though, most of the time I can sleep at night. It makes no difference to me if the Catholic Church gets smaller in the spirit of what Pope Benedict has suggested. We Catholics and fellow Christians can only try our best to serve and please God. We would love to fill all the pews to the max, but that is not the times we are living in. In the end, it is up to you to care about your own, and I pray that you do.
 
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All I can say is Roman 1:26-27. It’s right there in scripture that sexual relations within the same sex is a sin.
 
If this is true, then the majority of Australian Catholics have entered into apostasy. Laws permitting same-sex marriage greatly damage society because they confers the name of a sacrament upon an unholy and unnatural union. This veneer of respectability will encourage sexually confused youngsters to experiment with homosexuality; children will be taught about homosexuality in schools; homosexuals will be given more exposure on television. The list could go on and on. By voting in favour of this law, they give approval to a sin that ‘cries to heaven for vengeance.’ Christ must weep when he sees the members of his Body encourage grave sin by voting for immoral laws.
 
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