Poll saying white Catholics embrace same-sex marriage than other Americans

[edwest2]

No. I’m demanding the government extend benefits to gay couples.

It is not just about benefits. It is about a social experiment which requires the label ‘gay marriage.’

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

We get that you support evolutionary humanistic, even atheistic philosophy so there’s not really much common ground to stand on. Some would like God’s absolutes gone from the earth and His principles to be silenced. We have been accused of bigotry and judgment, but from where I stand, my view clearly sees a hatred for God and a rebellion that seeks to free itself from any godly influence on society. (That is especially evident on this very thread and by one poster in particular.) Of course we were told by Christ that as the world hates Him, so shall we be hated. So be it.

But even those who hate us should be able to see the beauty and wisdom in the words of a retired pope who said family is the little church where we learn the meaning of life. “The family is fundamental because it is the place where there germinates in the human soul the first perception of the meaning of life." ~Benedict XVI~

Can you perceive the word “soul?” That what is before us here and now is fleeting and as we rant and rave against Goodness itself and espouse ideas that have nothing to do with the authentic meaning of life, there really is something much greater that brings real substinence and happiness rather than the hedonistic pleasure of masturbation and homosexual behavior? Can we possibly perceive there might be something more beautiful than indulging in our own selfish satisfactions? That the very meaning of family denotes a life of sacrifice and good intentions toward its members and not just for oneself? The notion of families came from God and flows from the natural law. Fundamentally rejecting that doesn’t leave much room for discussion.

Well stated.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

I find this to be blatantly false. If true, then why are professional lobbyists paid to legislate same sex marriage laws? Why the agenda, why wave flags in public parades, why the aggression to make the ideology socially acceptable and why the need, even on this forum to constantly tell others “I am gay!”

It is an ideology - a social engineering experiment.

lifesitenews.com/news/san-diego-firefighters-win-lawsuit-over-forced-participation-in-gay-pride-p

Peace,
Ed

 

[kozlosap]

Families are made up of the small close group of related genetically, adopted or combined by marriage people. My daughter’s biological father was a drunk who only cared about when the next football game was on and where the next Bud was located in the fridge. I “woke up” when I found I was pregnant. At age 31, I made the decision that I could not have my child staying with or being driven around by a drinker, so we broke up. I knew that when I asked for child support, he would disappear. My daughter and I were and are still a FAMILY. She attended Catholic schools from k-8 then both undergrad and law school at Catholic universities. Two years after my daughter was born, her father married. He was married for two years and had a son and a daughter. Neither of his kids were raised with any type of faith, even though his father had been a very High official in the presbyterian communion. At age 18, his daughter was pregnant and now has a five year old who is behind academically due to lack of stimulation. His son is 26 and is now in his 8th year of college and has never lived on his own or had a job. When my daughter chose to make contact with her bio father at 23, she told me that she had always wondered why I had never gone after him for child support and that she now completely understood.

Making pre-judgements about what type of family is real or not is ridiculous. There are gay parents who are raising awesome kids that make the Duggar flock look needy. The couple I am good friends with adopted a crack addicted multiracial baby who at age six is now flourishing. Her Dad’s are soccer coaches for her little team and she is never left with a baby sitter. Her parents are medical professionals who changed their whole personal and professional lives when they became a child centered family. Can anyone here, in all good conscience, say that this little group who love each other, are not a FAMILY?

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

My daughter’s biological father was a drunk who only cared about when the next football game was on and where the next Bud was located in the fridge. I “woke up” when I found I was pregnant. At age 31, I made the decision that I could not have my child staying with or being driven around by a drinker, so we broke up. I knew that when I asked for child support, he would disappear. My daughter and I were and are still a FAMILY.

I don’t read anything prior to your post that suggested anything else.

Making pre-judgements about what type of family is real or not is ridiculous.

That would seem to mean suggesting that same sex couples could form a family is ridiculous.

There are gay parents who are raising awesome kids that make the Duggar flock look needy.

Exceptions prove the rule. There is simply nothing substantial in the way of research on so-called “gay” parents that can provide us assurance that they can provide adequate parenting. We can surmise that at least their charges would not consider same sex relations as disordered, which would be a strike against homosexual parenting.

The couple I am good friends with adopted a crack addicted multiracial baby who at age six is now flourishing. Her Dad’s are soccer coaches for her little team and she is never left with a baby sitter. Her parents are medical professionals who changed their whole personal and professional lives when they became a child centered family. Can anyone here, in all good conscience, say that this little group who love each other, are not a FAMILY?

Not by any definition proposed up to the point your post.

With whom are you debating?

.

 

[Havard]

Families are made up of the small close group of related genetically, adopted or combined by marriage people. My daughter’s biological father was a drunk who only cared about when the next football game was on and where the next Bud was located in the fridge. I “woke up” when I found I was pregnant. At age 31, I made the decision that I could not have my child staying with or being driven around by a drinker, so we broke up. I knew that when I asked for child support, he would disappear. My daughter and I were and are still a FAMILY. She attended Catholic schools from k-8 then both undergrad and law school at Catholic universities. Two years after my daughter was born, her father married. He was married for two years and had a son and a daughter. Neither of his kids were raised with any type of faith, even though his father had been a very High official in the presbyterian communion. At age 18, his daughter was pregnant and now has a five year old who is behind academically due to lack of stimulation. His son is 26 and is now in his 8th year of college and has never lived on his own or had a job. When my daughter chose to make contact with her bio father at 23, she told me that she had always wondered why I had never gone after him for child support and that she now completely understood.

Making pre-judgements about what type of family is real or not is ridiculous. There are gay parents who are raising awesome kids that make the Duggar flock look needy. The couple I am good friends with adopted a crack addicted multiracial baby who at age six is now flourishing. Her Dad’s are soccer coaches for her little team and she is never left with a baby sitter. Her parents are medical professionals who changed their whole personal and professional lives when they became a child centered family. Can anyone here, in all good conscience, say that this little group who love each other, are not a FAMILY?

My answer: yes, they are a family to the children. Any adoptive parents can be considered family.

But respectfully, this argument is off-point and begs people down a road that has nothing to do with the marriage discussion. So we should really move on from it. Marriage is not about the potential for adoptive parenting. Many loving people can fulfill a parental role. I have a friend who was raised by her aunt and uncle, who are brother and sister. That doesn’t mean her brother and sister should be able to marry.

 

[edwest2]

Families are made up of the small close group of related genetically, adopted or combined by marriage people. My daughter’s biological father was a drunk who only cared about when the next football game was on and where the next Bud was located in the fridge. I “woke up” when I found I was pregnant. At age 31, I made the decision that I could not have my child staying with or being driven around by a drinker, so we broke up. I knew that when I asked for child support, he would disappear. My daughter and I were and are still a FAMILY. She attended Catholic schools from k-8 then both undergrad and law school at Catholic universities. Two years after my daughter was born, her father married. He was married for two years and had a son and a daughter. Neither of his kids were raised with any type of faith, even though his father had been a very High official in the presbyterian communion. At age 18, his daughter was pregnant and now has a five year old who is behind academically due to lack of stimulation. His son is 26 and is now in his 8th year of college and has never lived on his own or had a job. When my daughter chose to make contact with her bio father at 23, she told me that she had always wondered why I had never gone after him for child support and that she now completely understood.

Making pre-judgements about what type of family is real or not is ridiculous. There are gay parents who are raising awesome kids that make the Duggar flock look needy. The couple I am good friends with adopted a crack addicted multiracial baby who at age six is now flourishing. Her Dad’s are soccer coaches for her little team and she is never left with a baby sitter. Her parents are medical professionals who changed their whole personal and professional lives when they became a child centered family. Can anyone here, in all good conscience, say that this little group who love each other, are not a FAMILY?

With all due respect, the topic is same-sex marriage.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Midwest88]

There’s a reason that now OVER 50% of Catholics believe and are embracing same sex marriage and it’s quite evident throughout this thread for many reasons. Take the first gay couples who got married in Vermont years ago. Anyone can believe their marriage is meaningless/a grave sin/a travesty/an evil thing/not natural in the eyes of God, but that couple should have the right to disagree, and not believe that. Whose TRUTH is correct? Ahh, that’s the great thing about Freedom baby. However, to expound further, we, as Catholics, do not have that right to impose legislation banning gays from getting married. Sure, the Church does not have to recognize it, but from a purely legal secular perspective, this is bigotry and discrimination. So it’s quite inevitable that same sex marriage will become legal in every state, and that quite soon.

And what is this reason?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Originally Posted by SquallLeonheart View Post
There’s a reason that now OVER 50% of Catholics believe and are embracing same sex marriage and it’s quite evident throughout this thread for many reasons. Take the first gay couples who got married in Vermont years ago. Anyone can believe their marriage is meaningless/a grave sin/a travesty/an evil thing/not natural in the eyes of God, but that couple should have the right to disagree, and not believe that. Whose TRUTH is correct? Ahh, that’s the great thing about Freedom baby. However, to expound further, we, as Catholics, do not have that right to impose legislation banning gays from getting married. Sure, the Church does not have to recognize it, but from a purely legal secular perspective, this is bigotry and discrimination. So it’s quite inevitable that same sex marriage will become legal in every state, and that quite soon.

I think it is about time someone pointed out that the Catholic Church is not a democratic institution governed by questionable polls and public opinion.

What the Church teaches and defines is not open to decent. Sure we might not like it…but since we are Catholics…members of the Body of Christ…we accept our faith and live our life accordingly.

Something to always remember is what the Catholic Church teaches is TRUE…not because it is Catholic… it is Catholic because it is TRUE.

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed with this concept.

Remember also that Catholics are duty bound to oppose any civil laws granting legitimacy to same sex marriages.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/poll-support-gay-marriage-leveling-off-5678805

A survey released Monday from the Pew Research Center indicates American support for same-sex marriage could be leveling off after several years of dramatic growth in acceptance of equal rights for gays and lesbians.

Nearly half of all the respondents said businesses that provide services for weddings, such as florists, should be allowed to deny service to same-sex couples if the owners have religious objections. The Pew survey also found the percentage of people who consider gay relationships sinful had increased from 45 percent a year ago to 50 percent last month

So…there you have it folks…a complete reversal of the OP.

 

[ltravis]

abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/poll-support-gay-marriage-leveling-off-5678805

A survey released Monday from the Pew Research Center indicates American support for same-sex marriage could be leveling off after several years of dramatic growth in acceptance of equal rights for gays and lesbians.

So…there you have it folks…a complete reversal of the OP.

Thank your for this. It is encouraging although the crux of my OP was not about the acceptance of SSM in general, but among Catholics, who inexplicably accept it more than non-Catholics. Perhaps acceptance among Catholics is dropping also, which we can only hope. Nevertheless, as you were so correct in alluding to earlier, the truth doesn’t depend on poll numbers.

 

[edwest2]

abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/poll-support-gay-marriage-leveling-off-5678805

A survey released Monday from the Pew Research Center indicates American support for same-sex marriage could be leveling off after several years of dramatic growth in acceptance of equal rights for gays and lesbians.

So…there you have it folks…a complete reversal of the OP.

I don’t think acceptance is the right word. Same-sex marriage was voted down twice in California and laws to protect one man, one woman marriage were passed, but highly paid lobbyists and even door to door visits, confused people, including politicians. It was primarily judges and politicians who changed/invented laws.

“equal rights” is an inaccurate term also. The topic is same-sex marriage. Looking back at recent history, some of the rights mentioned included visiting a same-sex partner in a hospital, which could be overruled by the parent(s) of the sick person. This could all have been handled differently. Right now, I could will my estate to a friend or neighbor.

Peace,
Ed

 

[epan]

I just saw this news article about where Catholics stand on issues related to politics these days. Frankly, I shouldn’t be, but am surprised to read these parts, and have trouble making sense of them:

and

How can I make sense of this? I could better handle it if 99% of the people found the teachings too difficult and simply walked away. However, they remain, continue to hear the teaching, and continue to embrace the opposite in spite of it. The church appears to be failing in promoting a matter of fundamental truth and importance. It can’t be, though, because then the gates of hell would be prevailing, right?

-LT

Is it not true, that Catholics are often ahead of the Church on social justice issues, and that the Church finds itself trying to catch up? Is this not the modern history of the Church?

 

[Scottgun]

Is it not true, that Catholics are often ahead of the Church on social justice issues, and that the Church finds itself trying to catch up? Is this not the modern history of the Church?

That same-sex whatchamacallits are not marriages is not a social injustice anymore than refusing to pass a law recognizing me as Napoleon is.

The principles of respect and non-discrimination cannot be invoked to support legal recognition of homosexual unions. Differentiating between persons or refusing social recognition or benefits is unacceptable only when it is contrary to justice.(16) The denial of the social and legal status of marriage to forms of cohabitation that are not and cannot be marital is not opposed to justice; on the contrary, justice requires it.

Source: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[kozlosap]

That same-sex whatchamacallits are not marriages is not a social injustice anymore than refusing to pass a law recognizing me as Napoleon is.

Source: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

So even civil marriages between gay individuals are not real? Even the most virulently anti-gay zealots must admit that there is a difference between civil and sacramental marriages.

 

[Scottgun]

So even civil marriages between gay individuals are not real? Even the most virulently anti-gay zealots must admit that there is a difference between civil and sacramental marriages.

1. Faced with the fact of homosexual unions, civil authorities adopt different positions. At times they simply tolerate the phenomenon; at other times they advocate legal recognition of such unions, under the pretext of avoiding, with regard to certain rights, discrimination against persons who live with someone of the same sex. In other cases, they favour giving homosexual unions legal equivalence to marriage properly so-called, along with the legal possibility of adopting children.

Where the government’s policy is de facto tolerance and there is no explicit legal recognition of homosexual unions, it is necessary to distinguish carefully the various aspects of the problem. Moral conscience requires that, in every occasion, Christians give witness to the whole moral truth, which is contradicted both by approval of homosexual acts and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. Therefore, discreet and prudent actions can be effective; these might involve: unmasking the way in which such tolerance might be exploited or used in the service of ideology; stating clearly the immoral nature of these unions; reminding the government of the need to contain the phenomenon within certain limits so as to safeguard public morality and, above all, to avoid exposing young people to erroneous ideas about sexuality and marriage that would deprive them of their necessary defences and contribute to the spread of the phenomenon. Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimization of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil.

In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.

 

[edwest2]

So even civil marriages between gay individuals are not real? Even the most virulently anti-gay zealots must admit that there is a difference between civil and sacramental marriages.

'virulently anti-gay zealots"? Same-sex marriage is the issue. Not “anti-gay.” As I wrote elsewhere, I worked with gay people. We got along. Then something changed. Instead of privacy and “stay out of my bedroom,” privacy has been abandoned. The other obvious issue is instead of getting a civil union and living with your neighbors, kids in school are required to read storybooks that promote gay marriage and others are forced to be silent and still others are forced to act against their conscience.

Laws can be wrong. On a Catholic forum, everyone can get the whole answer and it’s not solely based on religion.

Peace,
Ed

 

[kozlosap]

Scottgun:
I was wondering about your own thoughts about this social issue, not what is written in the CCC. A person can follow the doctrines of the Church and still have their own opinions that are formed by life experience. An example would be a woman or man who fully well understands the provision in the CCC that state using ABC is a sin, even though they don’t agree with that dogma.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

I was wondering about your own thoughts about this social issue, not what is written in the CCC. A person can follow the doctrines of the Church and still have their own opinions that are formed by life experience. An example would be a woman or man who fully well understands the provision in the CCC that state using ABC is a sin, even though they don’t agree with that dogma.

A Catholic cannot form his conscience or hold an opinion contrary to a dogma of the Catholic Church, knowing it is a dogma, and remain in full communion.

Whether he or she forms that opinion based on life experience, a vision, a blow to the back of the head, or theological speculation is irrelevant.

.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

So even civil marriages between gay individuals are not real? Even the most virulently anti-gay zealots must admit that there is a difference between civil and sacramental marriages.

They’re “real” in the sense that there exists something called “civil marriage” between individuals of the same sex.

They’re not marriages in the Natural Law, the law of God, or anything other than legal fiction.

.