And I accept and love my daughter and her partner. What I don’t do is ever affirm their relationship . All of my children sin and guess what, so does their father. But the fact that someone we love sins should in no way cause us to reject the teachings of the ChurchWell from the poll, we are not alone. Some might say it is pick and choose, but we have chosen to accept and love my cousin. I responded because of this mentioned poll.
Baptism does indeed make and indelible mark and lukewarm (and stone cold) catholics remain catholic. But to whom much is given, much is expected (a rather terrifying passage, when you learn of the fate of the servant who did nothing with the coin entrusted to him but hide it.) But the purpose of the poll is presumably to see what effect holding to the catholic faith has on some social views people hold. If that’s the goal, then are you really asserting that people should refuse to acknowledge the substantive difference between those who actually believe in and receive the Sacraments most closely associated with repentance and those who disdain them in their lives?When I was growing up Catholic, it was banged into my head, “once a Catholic, always a Catholic” if you were baptized Catholic, that is what you were. So…either they ARE once a Catholic always a Catholic or they are not. Can’t have it both ways depending on what reflects more favorably on Catholicism as a whole.
Catholicism isn’t an “alleged faith”, it is what you are by nature of Baptism. If that is indeed the case, then for better or worse the reality is that the polls reflect the views of Catholics.
If the teachings of the Church are not held by the members of the Church that is information that is worth looking into.
Awesome testimony. Reminds me of this:And I accept and love my daughter and her partner. What I don’t do is ever affirm their relationship . All of my children sin and guess what, so does their father. But the fact that someone we love sins should in no way cause us to reject the teachings of the Church
A THIRD MISUNDERstanding about love is to confuse it with kindness, which is only one of its usual attributes. Kindness is the sympathy with and the desire to relieve another’s suffering. But love (agape) is the willing of another’s good. A father can spank his child out of love. And God is a father.
Grandfathers are kind; fathers are loving. Grandfathers say, “Run along and have a good time.” Fathers say, “But don’t do this or that.” Grandfathers are compassionate, fathers are passionate. God is never once called our grandfather, much as we would prefer that to the inconveniently close, demanding, intimate father who loves us.
Peter Kreeft, Envoy Magazine
Send me a check for $500,000 and I’ll employ all the best social scientists to do a study for you. For now, I’m content with the fact that among dozens of close friends and family that are faithful catholics I’ve never once seen a bruised woman or heard rumors of abuse (even divorce is exceedingly rare). That contrasts very strongly with that portion of my extended family which has secularized in which abuse in one form or another runs at about 20%.How does this square with the many fundamentalists who feel they have a right to beat their wives?
Do you have any proof for your assertions other than what you would expect?
It’s great that you accept and love your daughter. I have a few gay friends that have been completely disowned by their family once they came out. The accepting was a natural progression from talking to my cousin and getting to know more SS couples. My Mom’s boss was actually a priest and got married to his partner a few years ago. Talking to him really opened my eyes and I have since changed my views completely. I actually believe that the Church herself could someday changer her views. It is a possibility.And I accept and love my daughter and her partner. What I don’t do is ever affirm their relationship . All of my children sin and guess what, so does their father. But the fact that someone we love sins should in no way cause us to reject the teachings of the Church
Bad example. They’d rightly point out that the ‘Christian family’ is a concept directly modeled on the “Jewish family.” And they’d be right. (Orthodox Jews anyways. Reformed are as all over the board as Episcopalians…).(And I think you ought to ask some Jewish people if they agree that the “Christian family” is the building block of society.)
So you rejected 2000 years of church teaching based on the personal testimony of your cousin? . A perfect example how one person’s sin can adversly effect all those around them.It’s great that you accept and love your daughter. I have a few gay friends that have been completely disowned by their family once they came out. The accepting was a natural progression from talking to my cousin and getting to know more SS couples. My Mom’s boss was actually a priest and got married to his partner a few years ago. Talking to him really opened my eyes and I have since changed my views completely. I actually believe that the Church herself could someday changer her views. It is a possibility.
Homosexual acts can only be defended under the incoherent and self-refuting philosophy of moral relativism, and the Church would never change to such nonsense.It’s great that you accept and love your daughter. I have a few gay friends that have been completely disowned by their family once they came out. The accepting was a natural progression from talking to my cousin and getting to know more SS couples. My Mom’s boss was actually a priest and got married to his partner a few years ago. Talking to him really opened my eyes and I have since changed my views completely. I actually believe that the Church herself could someday changer her views. It is a possibility.
That’s a good point and I can see where Catholics might use it to hold a public opinion at odds with what they assent to as true. Respectfully, I think its mistaken. In public matters I think everyone should have a voice and the Church wishes to use her voice to mitigate what God has revealed is bad for people and society. In fact, I think its a truth that the Church must do this. On purely private matters, I just think “invite” a better word than “impose”. We can always accept or reject…I think the Church is right, but that doesn’t necessarily give me the right to impose my religious views on those who do NOT think that it is, just as I do not want any other religion imposing it’s views on me.
Quite the opposite actually. I’m more secure and sure of my faith than ever before. Listening to my cousin, my other gay family members, my mom’s boss/former priest, and getting to know them has led me, and obviously many others to accept same-sex marriage.So you rejected 2000 years of church teaching based on the personal testimony of your cousin? . A perfect example how one person’s sin can adversly effect all those around them.
Sin darkens the intellect.Quite the opposite actually. I’m more secure and sure of my faith than ever before. Listening to my cousin, my other gay family members, my mom’s boss/former priest, and getting to know them has led me, and obviously many others to accept same-sex marriage.
The post that I quoted in part explicitly said that the “Christian family” is the building block of society.Bad example. They’d rightly point out that the ‘Christian family’ is a concept directly modeled on the “Jewish family.” And they’d be right. (Orthodox Jews anyways. Reformed are as all over the board as Episcopalians…).
So your faith is based on the testimony of a Public sinner, members of the laity and a de frocked priest?Quite the opposite actually. I’m more secure and sure of my faith than ever before. Listening to my cousin, my other gay family members, my mom’s boss/former priest, and getting to know them has led me, and obviously many others to accept same-sex marriage.
So you’re saying that the gay people who have contracted marriages, live together monogamously, and those who have married and adopted children are not a family?How does a gay couple form a family unit?
So what will you do when your daughter wants to get married? Would you attend the wedding? Would you still love and accept her? Doesn’t it seem obvious that she does not think homosexuality is a sin? That’s the great thing about freedom. We don’t have to all believe that gay marriage is a sin. And from this poll, a majority of Catholics including myself do support and embrace same-sex marriage, just as you refute it. Let’s agree to disagree.So your faith is based on the testimony of a Public sinner, members of the laity and a de frocked priest?
Yeah, it pretty much is a religious view now.But that homosexual acts are wrong isn’t merely a religious view. One might as well say they can’t impose grand larceny laws on those with an “alternative property-rights orientation.”
No I would not attend the wedding. Yes I would still love & accept her. , There is nothing that my daughter could do that could make me love her any less. For me to affirm her sin ,however,would be a total abdication of my responsibilities as a father .So what will you do when your daughter wants to get married? Would you attend the wedding? Would you still love and accept her? Doesn’t it seem obvious that she does not think homosexuality is a sin? That’s the great thing about freedom. We don’t have to all believe that gay marriage is a sin. And from this poll, a majority of Catholics including myself do support and embrace same-sex marriage, just as you refute it. Let’s agree to disagree.
Note, applying the same argument to a different issue: “the government doesn’t consider a fetus to be a person, and a very large portion of society doesn’t consider a fetus to be a person.” It doesn’t appear to be a very helpful standard for determining a person’s identity.So you’re saying that the gay people who have contracted marriages, live together monogamously, and those who have married and adopted children are not a family?
They consider themselves a family and the government considers them a family and a very large portion of society considers them a family.