[POLL] Would you rather (1) Orthodox Constantinople (only) OR (2) ALL Lutheran denominations re-unite with the Catholic Church?

[SnowRose]

Well ”mind your manners and do what you’re told” works neither on children nor spouses. It’ll either prompt hostility or be met with an indifferent ”whatever”

 

[UltimateChikorita]

Is this because, in your opinion, Constantinople would only come back with the others, or that it is natural that the others would follow? I could imagine a situation where the others would just think C went into heresy or schism.

The reason the schism was so catastrophic was because the eastern sees followed Constantinople’s power grab. They felt closer to the Greek east than to the Latin west. Those sees were also really weak due to Muslim invasions. They still are in the Middle East, which is an area of strife. They would need any support they could get. Right now, in the EOC, there is a power struggle between Moscow and Constantinople. There might even be an Ortho schism that will happen in our lifetime, with Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria following Constantinople, with the Slavic churches following Moscow.
If Constantinople did join back, the hypothetical Orthodox schism I mentioned would happen.
tldr: Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem follow Constantinople, Slavic churches follow Moscow

 

[UltimateChikorita]

But that requires the RCC to make concessions and changes, too, and since that’s not likely to happen I’m not holding my breath.

Why does the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church need to change anything? Apart from the liturgy, it hasn’t since the day of Pentecost.

 

[UltimateChikorita]

(1) Eastern Orthodox Church in Constantinople
OR (2) ALL of Oriental Orthodoxy

Oriental Orthodoxes are absolute bros. The Nestorian schism is almost fully healed, so let’s heal the Chalcedonian one. Then we can work on 1054.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

Oh, I hope you don’t think I was justifying it! Just describing the situation as I see it. I think there’s hope that Rome is softening her approach these days and perhaps she’ll eventually see the Protestant episcopates the same way she has come to see the Orthodox ones.

 

[SnowRose]

Why does the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church need to change anything? Apart from the liturgy, it hasn’t since the day of Pentecost.

Your last sentence is factually incorrect.
And as the thread is about reuniting Christianity, not getting that point pretty much precludes further discussion.

 

[SnowRose]

No, I understood you to be as tongue in cheek as I was.
Sometimes a funny evocative metaphor gets the truth of a matter across clearer.

 

[mVitus]

I vote Orthodox. The Schism sometimes gives me doubts about Catholicism. While Protestant Bible interpretations where I don’t know the Catholic rebuttal to them will also give me trouble, I at least have the historicity of the Church to say, “I don’t know how to rebut that interpretation, but I can know through other means that Protestantism is wrong so I can have trust that there is a rebuttal.”

 

[ArcillaJohn]

I chose All major Lutheran bodies join the Catholic church because this would require them to renounce their heresy and accept the teachings of the Catholic church. Allowing Constantinople to be the head of the whole Orthodox church would still mean they are in schism, and (I’m assuming) the seat of Constantinople would be given similar powers as the Bishop of Rome, which still doesn’t make them unified with the Catholic Church.

If the question was that the ALL Orthodox churches join the Catholic church, then I would most definitely wish to see that above anything else in all of Christianity

 

[deMontfort]

po18guy:

The denial of free will, man’s inability to do anything pleasing to God,

Surely those are Calvinist doctrines, not Lutheran?

Read Luther’s heretical “On the Bondage of the Will”: It’s an eye opener. Luther’s sock puppet Philip Melanchthon referred to the very concept of free will as being “impious”.

 

[runningdude]

Either the Orthodox Church headed by Constantinople (so NOT necessarily other autocephalous Orthodox churches; i.e., Eastern Orthodoxy would still exist)

Constantinople cannot reenter communion without the others. The Orthodox are One Church, with several particular expressions. You cannot cut a lung in half and expect it to function.

 

[po18guy]

BartholomewB:

po18guy:

The denial of free will, man’s inability to do anything pleasing to God,

Surely those are Calvinist doctrines, not Lutheran?

Read Luther’s heretical “On the Bondage of the Will”: It’s an eye opener. Luther’s sock puppet Philip Melanchthon referred to the very concept of free will as being “impious”.

How then, do they explain Luke 7:30?

 

[deMontfort]

With lots of twisting and word parsing. As you’ll no doubt see subsequently in this thread when Luther’s white knights show back up

 

[po18guy]

Bless their hearts!

 

[JonNC]

I went with Lutheran because of the lack of access to sacraments and the potential impact the return of Lutherans would have on the other Protestant denominations.

I want the East to return as well, but they at least have valid sacraments and apostolic succession.

Lutherans recognize 3 sacraments: Baptism, Eucharist, Confession/ Holy Absolution.
Additionally, they also recognize the other four as Holy rites that are extremely important.
While Catholics may believe they are not valid, Lutherans have no doubt are to their validity.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

This topic is being discussed from the Catholic perspective.

 

[JonNC]

BartholomewB:

po18guy:

The denial of free will, man’s inability to do anything pleasing to God,

Surely those are Calvinist doctrines, not Lutheran?

Read Luther’s heretical “On the Bondage of the Will”: It’s an eye opener. Luther’s sock puppet Philip Melanchthon referred to the very concept of free will as being “impious”.

It is this kind of polemical name calling that stands in the way of unity.

 

[deMontfort]

It’s started: Watch them spin

 

[JonNC]

This topic is being discussed from the Catholic perspective.

It is on the non-Catholics forum and includes Lutherans in the premise. Not considering the perspective of Lutherans makes the discussion worthless.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Still a Catholic website. Still a discussion from a Catholic perspective as the OP clearly demonstrates. Hardly a worthless discussion (or thought experiment as the OP puts it).

Perhaps “Apologetics” would be a better place for it. I’ll be happy to move it there if that will make you happy.