Ponderings About God

[Dark_Warrior]

This may be weird for some people, or simply obvious thoughts, but my OCD pushes me to talk about it, about God’s being and behavior toward us.

It’s strange to ponder these things, as we can never truly understand how, or even “what” God is, right? Saying “He’s a Spiritual Being” doesn’t help much niether.

Scott Hahn said something similar in “Answering the New Atheism.” His point was against many atheists who ask why doesn’t God heal all the sick, or cure all the lame? Or feed all the hungry? etc. as many non-believers always push on us. We can never truly understand why, as God’s ways and thoughts are above ours–meaning (I think) He knows what’s best for us humans.

Obviously, God has no “voice” as we understand a voice, He’s a Spiritual being. He has no voice box, no lungs, no throat; He possessed none of that when speaking with Moses. But in order to communicate with us, so we can understand Him, He speaks to us in a human manner, obviously.

I just find it fasinating is all. Just as God has feelings, He has given us the ability to have feelings, (except it is done so physically by our brains, for Him it is just a part of His being). And just as He loves us, He wants us to love one another and Him just as much (“love one another even as I have loved you” or “love your wives as Christ loved the Church” that’s some pretty big love which can only be accomplished by His gift of grace).

So here is God, the Almighty, who communicates with us as if He too were a human for the sake of understanding Him, He knows what’s best for us humans, and yet we can never fathime what it would be like to be Him, we don’t even know what he is, in the sense of understanding as we can study and understand a bat, monkey, or snake.

He’s a spiritual being who’s all knowing and all powerful, and proves it to us by His miracles and wisdom, and again, communicates to us like a human, a perfect human.

If this post seems strange I’m sorry. Please don’t no one scold me I have OCD and was obsessing on these thoughts lately, and just wanted to share them. I know they’re strange, but can anyone relate? Or get it what I mean?

 

[sea_star]

Why would anyone scold you for pondering God or needing to connect with someone concerning these thoughts? You sound like a deeply spiritual person who doesn’t give yourself enough credit----I don’t sense anything OCD about these thoughts, but it is okay to let us know where you come from.

 

[Dark_Warrior]

Why would anyone scold you for pondering God or needing to connect with someone concerning these thoughts? You sound like a deeply spiritual person who doesn’t give yourself enough credit----I don’t sense anything OCD about these thoughts, but it is okay to let us know where you come from.

Because i’ve been scolded before my friend, very much so for saying such things. I’m at times very timid

I do suffer from OCD though, but I guess that’s another issue.

Thank you

 

[sea_star]

You have me going through my Christian Prayer, looking for the psalm that expresses how God’s thoughts are so far above our own thoughts…but I can’t find the psalm. I will keep looking for it. But I wanted to say that you are in good company with your ponderings: the psalms are full of ponderings, Dark Warrior.

And thank *you *for getting me to search for such a beautiful psalm. You have done me a marvelous service, as I have not prayed my Christian Prayer (Lectio Divina) for quite sometime.

 

[Nickkname]

It is not strange to ponder about God. In fact, it is natural, and God Himself makes you ponder about Him. He alone can reveal Himself to you. Continue to contemplate Him, just as the Angels do in Heaven.

Here is a short paper on God you might be interested in: freewebs.com/ongod

 

[po18guy]

Pondering God is exactly what we do in praying the Rosary. Mary pondered many things. Kings David and Solomon pondered much about God. Look at how much pondering is contained within the Psalms! Imagine how frequently and profoundly Aquinas pondered just as you do. Think of the contemplative orders of Brothers and Sisters. They spend their lives in contemplation (pondering).

Just keep it reined in, so that it does not lead you away from Him. We must always move toward Him. Scripture gives you much to ponder, and that is a good place to keep the flame burning.

Oh, do not listen to your friend. Give your friend advice instead.

Christ’s peace.

 

[JReducation]

The closest that we ever come to understand that God-head is through analogies and through is Incarnate Son who is God. Since the Trinity is one and inseparable, to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus makes God comprehensible for us, because he is the God-Man. However, what Jesus focuses on making us understand is God’s love for us.

Through Jesus, the Trinity reveals itself as the God who is Love, who embraces us with love and invites us to love in return. At the same time, we come to understand other qualities of God through Jesus. As St. John’s Prologue puts it, God is eternal. God is the source and the means through which all creation comes into existence and the end to which all creation aspires. In effect, St. John shares with us something about the nature of God and our own as well.

When we contemplate the cross we see God’s infinite mercy that surpasses his justice. The second person of the Trinity did not have to become man and die for sins that God never committed. This was a choice made out of love and by Love.

Someone like St. Francis of Assisi, whose feast day is today (Oct 4) was able to see something of God in his creation. An historian once said that Francis’ vision of God is sympathetic, meaning that he was able to feel what God felt for his creation. Whether we want to accept those words or not, that’s another thread. But the point is that God reveals something of his nature through creation. Natural life, vegetable and animal, all speaks of the power of God’s Word. While we know that the God-Head does not use human language, only the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ uses human language, the God-Head does communicate through his creation. He communicates his Fatherhood, as he is the source of everything that is living. He communicates his power. Even if we look at all created things through the eyes of some kind of biological and physical evolution, the process itself requires a mighty hand and an infinite wisdom to initiate it and to sustain it.

Then there is the Church itself. The Church is not only a human community; it is a Divine community as well. It is the bride of Christ, the daughter of the Father and the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Even through her weaknesses, the Church reveals to us the nature of God. The Church stretches through time and around the globe. It encompasses every form of human thought and reveals to us every Truth ever communicated by God. When we look at the Church we see that God is Trinitarian, timeless, omnipresent, human and divine, without blending the two natures.

There are many more qualities of God that have been revealed to us that we do not yet fully understand, but they are there waiting for us to comprehend them. Then there are qualities of God that we will not understand until we are united with him in eternity.

This being said, the goal of the Christian life is to embrace the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel. Our call is to live as according to the humanity of God that is made known to us by Christ. We are called to be exactly like him, not an close approximation, but a full imitation of him. Someone like St. Francis understood this. The Church actually believes that Francis possessed some Christian traits that even Paul did not manage to capture. How did Francis and others reach such a level of insight into God’s nature? It began with prayer and penance. From there, Grace leads the soul to understand the mystery of God. That’s the place to begin, prayer and penance. We must be in constant contact with God and in a constant state of change toward holiness.

I believe that your contemplation is not an OCD. I believe that it can be a movement of the Holy Spirit to contemplate God and to see his nature.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Dark_Warrior]

The closest that we ever come to understand that God-head is through analogies and through is Incarnate Son who is God. Since the Trinity is one and inseparable, to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus makes God comprehensible for us, because he is the God-Man. However, what Jesus focuses on making us understand is God’s love for us.

Through Jesus, the Trinity reveals itself as the God who is Love, who embraces us with love and invites us to love in return. At the same time, we come to understand other qualities of God through Jesus. As St. John’s Prologue puts it, God is eternal. God is the source and the means through which all creation comes into existence and the end to which all creation aspires. In effect, St. John shares with us something about the nature of God and our own as well.

When we contemplate the cross we see God’s infinite mercy that surpasses his justice. The second person of the Trinity did not have to become man and die for sins that God never committed. This was a choice made out of love and by Love.

Someone like St. Francis of Assisi, whose feast day is today (Oct 4) was able to see something of God in his creation. An historian once said that Francis’ vision of God is sympathetic, meaning that he was able to feel what God felt for his creation. Whether we want to accept those words or not, that’s another thread. But the point is that God reveals something of his nature through creation. Natural life, vegetable and animal, all speaks of the power of God’s Word. While we know that the God-Head does not use human language, only the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ uses human language, the God-Head does communicate through his creation. He communicates his Fatherhood, as he is the source of everything that is living. He communicates his power. Even if we look at all created things through the eyes of some kind of biological and physical evolution, the process itself requires a mighty hand and an infinite wisdom to initiate it and to sustain it.

Then there is the Church itself. The Church is not only a human community; it is a Divine community as well. It is the bride of Christ, the daughter of the Father and the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Even through her weaknesses, the Church reveals to us the nature of God. The Church stretches through time and around the globe. It encompasses every form of human thought and reveals to us every Truth ever communicated by God. When we look at the Church we see that God is Trinitarian, timeless, omnipresent, human and divine, without blending the two natures.

There are many more qualities of God that have been revealed to us that we do not yet fully understand, but they are there waiting for us to comprehend them. Then there are qualities of God that we will not understand until we are united with him in eternity.

This being said, the goal of the Christian life is to embrace the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel. Our call is to live as according to the humanity of God that is made known to us by Christ. We are called to be exactly like him, not an close approximation, but a full imitation of him. Someone like St. Francis understood this. The Church actually believes that Francis possessed some Christian traits that even Paul did not manage to capture. How did Francis and others reach such a level of insight into God’s nature? It began with prayer and penance. From there, Grace leads the soul to understand the mystery of God. That’s the place to begin, prayer and penance. We must be in constant contact with God and in a constant state of change toward holiness.

I believe that your contemplation is not an OCD. I believe that it can be a movement of the Holy Spirit to contemplate God and to see his nature.

Fraternally,

JR

Hi

I can tell you love St. Francis of Assisi, me too! He and Mother Mary are my favorite Saints. I have a biograpy on St. Francis, sooooo beautiful!!! When i first read it it inspiried me to do the same thing, or at least have the same level of faith. and St. Francis didn’t really know much theologically, BUT he was a master of prayer, giving, and LIVING the Gospel! Awesome awesome awesome!!!

 

[littleone]

This may be weird for some people, or simply obvious thoughts, but my OCD pushes me to talk about it, about God’s being and behavior toward us.
He’s a spiritual being who’s all knowing and all powerful, and proves it to us by His miracles and wisdom, and again, communicates to us like a human, a perfect human.
If this post seems strange I’m sorry. Please don’t no one scold me I have OCD and was obsessing on these thoughts lately, and just wanted to share them. I know they’re strange, but can anyone relate? Or get it what I mean?

**Hey that is so cool, I love it.
Think of this God tells us in the bible that He made mankind to “His OWN likeness”. Sure it must in a small way be in the spirit or we would all probably look the same.
But think of this.
One say while lying on a blanket on the ground I asked God how much He Loved my wife and I being together an to show me in the sky. All of a sudden from nowhere came about 7 to 9 shooting stars all over the sky. My wife thought that was stupid asking such a thing. I asked again Lord show my wife how much You love our being together but not in the stars. All of a sudden 5 satellites shot from no where right in front of us!!! Again my wife thought ???
So how about our God being that big that he moved these things some trillions of miles or light years apart into our view and by the little finger of His.
That’s how big our God is.
**
Godbless
Keep on keeping on, loving God.

 

[JReducation]

Hi

I can tell you love St. Francis of Assisi, me too! He and Mother Mary are my favorite Saints. I have a biograpy on St. Francis, sooooo beautiful!!! When i first read it it inspiried me to do the same thing, or at least have the same level of faith. and St. Francis didn’t really know much theologically, BUT he was a master of prayer, giving, and LIVING the Gospel! Awesome awesome awesome!!!

Our holy father Francis was my way to Christianity. I had known Christianity. Christians were all around me as I was growing up. But it wasn’t until I read the writings and biography of St. Francis that Christianity made sense.

Francis captures the spirit of the Gospel in a way that has never been reproduced again. It is wrong to compare saints, because each of them has special gifts that come from the Holy Spirit, given to them according to their personality and circumstances. That being said, Francis was one of those people whose gifts were timeless and endless, because his call was to become like Christ crucified. Christ crucified is always relevant to any person and any time and place.

My attraction to Francis led me to reflect on the Christian message from an entirely different perspective. Christ was no longer someone who had to be heard and obeyed. but someone who has to be imitated to the smallest detail, if that makes sense.

When I read Francis Christ became a teacher and a master. This to me was my greatest blessing.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Dark_Warrior]

Our holy father Francis was my way to Christianity. I had known Christianity. Christians were all around me as I was growing up. But it wasn’t until I read the writings and biography of St. Francis that Christianity made sense.

Francis captures the spirit of the Gospel in a way that has never been reproduced again. It is wrong to compare saints, because each of them has special gifts that come from the Holy Spirit, given to them according to their personality and circumstances. That being said, Francis was one of those people whose gifts were timeless and endless, because his call was to become like Christ crucified. Christ crucified is always relevant to any person and any time and place.

My attraction to Francis led me to reflect on the Christian message from an entirely different perspective. Christ was no longer someone who had to be heard and obeyed. but someone who has to be imitated to the smallest detail, if that makes sense.

When I read Francis Christ became a teacher and a master. This to me was my greatest blessing.

Fraternally,

JR

Why is it some Greek Orthodox believers don’t like him? I’ve heard them call him an idolter. I don’t or can’t see why. Maybe you know?

 

[JReducation]

Why is it some Greek Orthodox believers don’t like him? I’ve heard them call him an idolter. I don’t or can’t see why. Maybe you know?

I had never heard that before. The only thing that comes to mind may be his strict rule on obedience to the Pope. Francis and his successors have never left room for disobedience in matters of ordinary magisterium. The Rule of St. Francis says that the brothers and sisters must obey the Pope in all things. The constitutions, which interpret the rule, are very clear that HE MUST BE OBEYED ALWAYS, regardless of whether you think something is prudential or not.

The positon explained by the Superior General this way. When someone in authority orders sin, one may disobey. But the Church can never order sin. When someone orders sin, even if that person is a member of the hierarchy, it is not the Church speaking.

Other than something that is sinful, the Pope must be obeyed and the Franciscans are to consider him above all men.

The wording may be confusing to some Orthodox Christians. The phrase “above all men” does not mean divine. It means more authoritative or of greater authority.

I’m only speculating here, so don’t take this to the bank. LOL

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Dark_Warrior]

I had never heard that before. The only thing that comes to mind may be his strict rule on obedience to the Pope. Francis and his successors have never left room for disobedience in matters of ordinary magisterium. The Rule of St. Francis says that the brothers and sisters must obey the Pope in all things. The constitutions, which interpret the rule, are very clear that HE MUST BE OBEYED ALWAYS, regardless of whether you think something is prudential or not.

The positon explained by the Superior General this way. When someone in authority orders sin, one may disobey. But the Church can never order sin. When someone orders sin, even if that person is a member of the hierarchy, it is not the Church speaking.

Other than something that is sinful, the Pope must be obeyed and the Franciscans are to consider him above all men.

The wording may be confusing to some Orthodox Christians. The phrase “above all men” does not mean divine. It means more authoritative or of greater authority.

I’m only speculating here, so don’t take this to the bank. LOL

Fraternally,

JR

No it wasn’t that, it had to do when St. Francis saw a vision of God, and another of himself next to God.

They say Francis thought as himself as perfect, without sin. But I can’t really see why and do not believe it.

 

[JReducation]

No it wasn’t that, it had to do when St. Francis saw a vision of God, and another of himself next to God.

They say Francis thought as himself as perfect, without sin. But I can’t really see why and do not believe it.

Ahhhhhhhhhh

I know what you’re talking about now. Francis did have a mystical experience where he was shown himself enjoying the Beatific Vision and in the same vision Jesus promised him that his religious family (Franciscan Order) would survive until the end of time.

Francis never saw this as a result of his holiness, but as a sign of God’s love for the lowest and greatest sinner, such as he.

I don’t believe this is an official position of the Orthodox Churches. This may be an assumption by some Orthodox. Most Orthodox prelates celebrate the feast of St. Francis even though Francis was canonized after the schism between East and West.

In fact, this experience took place during one of those moments when Francis was doing exactly what this thread is about. He was praying and pondering the nature of God.

He did not approach the nature of God from a dogmatic perspective. Rather he approached the nature of God from a moral perspective. He looked at the crucifix and ponder on God’s love for us. He realized that God was guilty of no sin and yet his Son had given his life for sinners. This spoke to him about God’s nature. He understood that God was capable of great love.

Looking at the world around him he saw greed, all kinds of wars, excesses, blandness in religious matters, a clergy that was mediocre at best and a laity whose only interest in the Church was to control the Church for its own ends.

Francis was moved by the crucifix in juxtaposition to these realities in the world. We have to admit that they continue today. His conclusion was that more than loving, God is Love itself. It is the only moral explanation for the cross.

If God is Love, then love is sentient, because God is sentient. If God is Love, then love is omnipotent, because God is omnipotent. If God is Love, then love is omnipresent, because God is omnipresent. Francis’ ponderings on God reveal to him God’s very nature. His divine substance is love. Francis goes from the moral to the dogmatic, rather than from dogma to morals as Aquinas did.

This approach to the nature of God is often referred to as moving from the heart to the head, while Aquinas’ approach is from the head to the heart. Both are ways to ponder about God and both will show us the same reality if they are done correctly.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Dark_Warrior]

Ahhhhhhhhhh

I know what you’re talking about now. Francis did have a mystical experience where he was shown himself enjoying the Beatific Vision and in the same vision Jesus promised him that his religious family (Franciscan Order) would survive until the end of time.

Francis never saw this as a result of his holiness, but as a sign of God’s love for the lowest and greatest sinner, such as he.

I don’t believe this is an official position of the Orthodox Churches. This may be an assumption by some Orthodox. Most Orthodox prelates celebrate the feast of St. Francis even though Francis was canonized after the schism between East and West.

In fact, this experience took place during one of those moments when Francis was doing exactly what this thread is about. He was praying and pondering the nature of God.

He did not approach the nature of God from a dogmatic perspective. Rather he approached the nature of God from a moral perspective. He looked at the crucifix and ponder on God’s love for us. He realized that God was guilty of no sin and yet his Son had given his life for sinners. This spoke to him about God’s nature. He understood that God was capable of great love.

Looking at the world around him he saw greed, all kinds of wars, excesses, blandness in religious matters, a clergy that was mediocre at best and a laity whose only interest in the Church was to control the Church for its own ends.

Francis was moved by the crucifix in juxtaposition to these realities in the world. We have to admit that they continue today. His conclusion was that more than loving, God is Love itself. It is the only moral explanation for the cross.

If God is Love, then love is sentient, because God is sentient. If God is Love, then love is omnipotent, because God is omnipotent. If God is Love, then love is omnipresent, because God is omnipresent. Francis’ ponderings on God reveal to him God’s very nature. His divine substance is love. Francis goes from the moral to the dogmatic, rather than from dogma to morals as Aquinas did.

This approach to the nature of God is often referred to as moving from the heart to the head, while Aquinas’ approach is from the head to the heart. Both are ways to ponder about God and both will show us the same reality if they are done correctly.

Fraternally,

JR

Awesome post

Yeah, the people saying this was an Orthodox priest and he refered me to an orthodox website pretty much slamming Francis. But I disagreed and couldn’t see it. You however summed it all up