Pontiff Admonishes Catholics Not to Lose Their Souls to Science

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Liberalsaved said:
How, exactly, has faith combatted AIDs? Where is the decrease? Where is the cure provided by faith? Can someone with AIDs never go to a doctor and still get well?

I accept that certain problems are handled better by faith, in many forms. AIDs and other diseases are not among them.
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It’s because it hasn’t been tried yet. If people live faithfully, you’ll see a decrease–if you keep passing out condoms and encouragin faithless behavior, you’ll continue seeing increases.

The only way the world’s problems will be fixed is through evangelization–true peace and justice can only come when Jesus Christ is enthroned in the hearts of men and societies.
 
Liberalsaved said:
You’d still have needles. Blood exchange. Still major problems in poor places. And I don’t see why someone who falls once should be punished for life.

Just because someone takes an action that is immoral to you, does not mean they deserve to have their lives thereafter dictated by AIDs and HIV. It isn’t only a problem with people who do something immoral to Christians. That’s an easy answer.
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Nobody said they deserved to live with AIDS. The point is that the best way to stop the spread of AIDS and HIV is for people to stop sleeping around and save themselves for marriage. No scientific intervention necessary.
 
masondoggy said:
Nobody said they deserved to live with AIDS. The point is that the best way to stop the spread of AIDS and HIV is for people to stop sleeping around and save themselves for marriage. No scientific intervention necessary.
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Good point. 👍
 
masondoggy said:
Nobody said they deserved to live with AIDS. The point is that the best way to stop the spread of AIDS and HIV is for people to stop sleeping around and save themselves for marriage. No scientific intervention necessary.
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T H A N K - Y O U 👍

Reading the actual article, I see that the Pope does not say in any way to abandon science.
He is simply saying that, without faith, science will not be enough.
“Social issues and the Gospel are inseparable,” the pope said. "When we bring people only knowledge, ability, technical competence and tools, we bring them too little.
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“People in Africa and Asia admire our scientific and technical prowess, but at the same time they are frightened by a form of rationality which totally excludes God from man’s vision.”
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Similarly, Benedict said, “hearts must be converted” to fight the AIDS epidemic by “realistically facing its deeper causes.”
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buffalo said:
People experience miraculous healings all the time.
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Yes They Do! They also see Jesus’s face on old toast and sell it on e-bay. Ever wonder why most miracles seem to be attributed to someone the church wants to canonize as a saint.
 
It seems to me that Faith and science work together in most cases. When we are given meds to take we take it on “faith” (small f) that it will work. (the placebo effect)

When we believe Faith (big F) works with the medical care we receive we are allowing our treatment to be two fold in our asking for healing. No placebo effect here just the thankfulness of God given medical care and Faith combined.
 
tjm8 said:
Yes They Do! They also see Jesus’s face on old toast and sell it on e-bay. Ever wonder why most miracles seem to be attributed to someone the church wants to canonize as a saint.
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I guess you need to learn more about the Church’s process for investigating miracle. It is quite extensive and has to be thorough.

Canonization Process
 
urban-hermit said:
T H A N K - Y O U 👍

Reading the actual article, I see that the Pope does not say in any way to abandon science.
He is simply saying that, without faith, science will not be enough.
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I understand this is largely what is being said. However, it still seems to me that on the subject of AIDs, though it is carefully worded to avoid saying so, he has said in a between-the-lines way the things I’ve mentioned above.
 
tjm8 said:
Yes They Do! They also see Jesus’s face on old toast and sell it on e-bay. Ever wonder why most miracles seem to be attributed to someone the church wants to canonize as a saint.
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Not really-I have seen the Lord work wondrs in my life and the lives of those I love. I am sorry you are unable to see the glory of the Lord. It is a great loss for you.
 
tjm8 said:
Yes They Do!
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Do you really believe that or are you being sarcastic?
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tjm8:
They also see Jesus’s face on old toast and sell it on e-bay.
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Sometimes when a miraculous event is claimed to have happened, it is not verifiable, that’s true.

And when somebody is being canonized, people are in fact looking for miracles, that’s true too.

But how does it follow from that that miracles don’t exist?
(I’m assuming that that is your implication…)
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tjm8:
Ever wonder why most miracles seem to be attributed to someone the church wants to canonize as a saint.
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Who says most miracles are attributed to people the Church has started the canonization process for?

There are a LOT of miracles going on besides just those. The Vatican miracles are merely (I would guess) the most officially studied and documented miracles.

In the parish I grew up in, an Italian man got liver cancer. His whole family prayed to St. “Padre” Pio, and the man was cured. You may say it was a coincidence, and I don’t know all the details of the event, but I know that 1) recovery from liver cancer is rare, and 2) that the family spent quite a lot of money afterward for a memorial to be built in the parish in honor of St Pio.

There are also people who have claimed they were cured miraculously of AIDS. But keep in mind the Pope is not saying that that is the only, or even the primary way we should combat AIDS.
 
Liberalsaved said:
How, exactly, has faith combatted AIDs? Where is the decrease? Where is the cure provided by faith? Can someone with AIDs never go to a doctor and still get well?

I accept that certain problems are handled better by faith, in many forms. AIDs and other diseases are not among them
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It seems to me that what you are hearing is not what he is saying, probably because of your prejudice and strong feelings on the subject.
 
urban-hermit said:
Do you really believe that or are you being sarcastic?

Sometimes when a miraculous event is claimed to have happened, it is not verifiable, that’s true.

And when somebody is being canonized, people are in fact looking for miracles, that’s true too.

But how does it follow from that that miracles don’t exist?
(I’m assuming that that is your implication…)

Who says most miracles are attributed to people the Church has started the canonization process for?

There are a LOT of miracles going on besides just those. The Vatican miracles are merely (I would guess) the most officially studied and documented miracles.

In the parish I grew up in, an Italian man got liver cancer. His whole family prayed to St. “Padre” Pio, and the man was cured. You may say it was a coincidence, and I don’t know all the details of the event, but I know that 1) recovery from liver cancer is rare, and 2) that the family spent quite a lot of money afterward for a memorial to be built in the parish in honor of St Pio.

There are also people who have claimed they were cured miraculously of AIDS. But keep in mind the Pope is not saying that that is the only, or even the primary way we should combat AIDS.
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OK, I was being a little sarcastic. A dictionary definition is: Act of God: an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God. The phrases “appears to be contrary to the laws of nature” and “regarded as an act of God” say it all for me. It doesn’t say IS an act of God, which seems to be the widely accepted definition.How will we ever know for sure? (PLEASE, NO LECTURES ON FAITH) No matter what, there will be differing opinions and the church investigators all have a Bias. I live in the Bible belt and “It must be a miracle” is a phrase that is way over used.

I’m glad the man you referred to was cured of cancer. Cancer and AIDS researchers and patients alike need all the help they can get. The Pope could help fight the spread of aids by realizing that abstinence, safer sex options and prayers will all be needed but that is different subject.
 
tjm8 said:
OK, I was being a little sarcastic. A dictionary definition is: Act of God: an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God. The phrases “appears to be contrary to the laws of nature” and “regarded as an act of God” say it all for me. It doesn’t say IS an act of God, which seems to be the widely accepted definition.How will we ever know for sure? (PLEASE, NO LECTURES ON FAITH) No matter what, there will be differing opinions and the church investigators all have a Bias. I live in the Bible belt and “It must be a miracle” is a phrase that is way over used.

I’m glad the man you referred to was cured of cancer. Cancer and AIDS researchers and patients alike need all the help they can get. The Pope could help fight the spread of aids by realizing that abstinence, safer sex options and prayers will all be needed but that is different subject.
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No lectures on FAITH huh? You are in a Catholic forum attacking the Pope for not abandoning 2,000 years of Catholic Teaching and tell us don’t mention faith?

If people followed the Church’s teachings there would have been no AIDS epidemic in the first place. Now , suffering the consequences of rampant promiscuity(predicted by Pope Paul VI in Humane Vitae") you tell us we must embrace "safer promiscuity. We have seen the horrors that the “scientific approach” has wrought. I’ll stick with Faith if you don’t mind.
 
estesbob said:
No lectures on FAITH huh? You are in a Catholic forum attacking the Pope for not abandoning 2,000 years of Catholic Teaching and tell us don’t mention faith?

If people followed the Church’s teachings there would have been no AIDS epidemic in the first place. Now , suffering the consequences of rampant promiscuity(predicted by Pope Paul VI in Humane Vitae") you tell us we must embrace "safer promiscuity. We have seen the horrors that the “scientific approach” has wrought. I’ll stick with Faith if you don’t mind.
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Me too! 👍
 
estesbob said:
. We have seen the horrors that the “scientific approach” has wrought. I’ll stick with Faith if you don’t mind.
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You and BUFFALO certainly are free to faithfully keep your heads in the sand.
 
I agree! However, if we don’t do something other than teach abstinence, the world’s population along with the AIDS problem will go away.
 
tjm8 said:
I agree! However, if we don’t do something other than teach abstinence, the world’s population along with the AIDS problem will go away.
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If a person is taught to be responsible and abstinent and they choose to be irresposible, why do you think it is your business to get involved?

That will leave faithful (head in the sand) Catholics the only survivors. 🙂 You wouldn’t like that much would you?
 
tjm8 said:
You and BUFFALO certainly are free to faithfully keep your heads in the sand.
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Along with aquinas, Augustine. Therese,Edith Stein, John Paul the Great, B16, and 2,000 years worth of catholic scholars, Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

So let me see- should I keep my head in the sand with these people or join tm8 in supporting policies that have led to death and misery on a worldwide scale.?

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_119.gif

smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZS
 
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