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Annie
Guest
Very impressive, I agree!
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qui_est_ce
Guest
She’s coming to St. Louis in March and I’m going to get to meet her!!
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Annie
Guest
That sounds terrific!
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13pollitos
Guest
I have a little more time now to be thourough instead of rushed.
I guess this is one thing I do agree whole heartedly with Pope Francis on. I don’t think speaking kindly or giving a “good effort” or a “much improved” award when priorities are so messed up about the lives of others. I most likely am overly sensitive to the plight of people living in severe poverty, and seeing first hand how they have been shamed into having fewer children with the promise of “a better life” with western material goods, and that meaning they have reached success. I have witnessed government workers hand out contraception in exchange for health care of other kinds and nutritional suppliments. No pills, IUD, implants, shots or proof of tubal ligation, no care for your family. I have seen when C-sections become routine to help limit family size to no more than two children. Women are lied to and told they will die if they have more kids so get the IUD or your tubes tied. I have seen a town that went from full of children to nearly all elderly people. The sight of a pregnant women has gone from common place to so rare people stare when they see one. Population control was met with resistance at first, but the promises of a better life coupled with financial incentives and true luxuries has helped it take root. This is a town that still has no sewer, no running water, hot or miss electricity, dirt roads, diet floors, very few vehicles, and very few have a refrigerator. They still mainly cook over open fires that they have to collect firewood for. They have no jobs. They have Zika, dengue, and other mosquito borne illnesses though. The ladies all collect water for washing clothes and drinking water must be bought because there is no filtration system for the river. But instead of the charities or aid groups or the government bringing in water, shoes to prevent hook worms, concrete floors, mosquito nets, a source of income, or a library to increase literacy rates, do you know what they provided? Cell phones, wired the town for internet, ran lines for cable TV, and provide each family that participated in the family planning program with cash every month.
What do we do as a family to try to help in the ways needed? We send shoes. Lots of shoes. It was the one thing my husband always wanted and never had. We send books and toys on three kings day. We send cots and sleeping pads so people don’t have to sleep in the dirt. If we could do more we would. But that is the help the poor need and that is the help the governments, charities, and aid workers withhold.
We can’t irradicate poverty, but we can alleviate suffering. We can allow cultures to stay true to themselves, respect their dignity, and encourage education without pretending that improvements made at the expense of families are truly improvements. When we do, we allow the most powerful to continue their quest to rid the world of poverty by convincing the poor and undesirables that it is “for their own good” not to reproduce.
I guess this is one thing I do agree whole heartedly with Pope Francis on. I don’t think speaking kindly or giving a “good effort” or a “much improved” award when priorities are so messed up about the lives of others. I most likely am overly sensitive to the plight of people living in severe poverty, and seeing first hand how they have been shamed into having fewer children with the promise of “a better life” with western material goods, and that meaning they have reached success. I have witnessed government workers hand out contraception in exchange for health care of other kinds and nutritional suppliments. No pills, IUD, implants, shots or proof of tubal ligation, no care for your family. I have seen when C-sections become routine to help limit family size to no more than two children. Women are lied to and told they will die if they have more kids so get the IUD or your tubes tied. I have seen a town that went from full of children to nearly all elderly people. The sight of a pregnant women has gone from common place to so rare people stare when they see one. Population control was met with resistance at first, but the promises of a better life coupled with financial incentives and true luxuries has helped it take root. This is a town that still has no sewer, no running water, hot or miss electricity, dirt roads, diet floors, very few vehicles, and very few have a refrigerator. They still mainly cook over open fires that they have to collect firewood for. They have no jobs. They have Zika, dengue, and other mosquito borne illnesses though. The ladies all collect water for washing clothes and drinking water must be bought because there is no filtration system for the river. But instead of the charities or aid groups or the government bringing in water, shoes to prevent hook worms, concrete floors, mosquito nets, a source of income, or a library to increase literacy rates, do you know what they provided? Cell phones, wired the town for internet, ran lines for cable TV, and provide each family that participated in the family planning program with cash every month.
What do we do as a family to try to help in the ways needed? We send shoes. Lots of shoes. It was the one thing my husband always wanted and never had. We send books and toys on three kings day. We send cots and sleeping pads so people don’t have to sleep in the dirt. If we could do more we would. But that is the help the poor need and that is the help the governments, charities, and aid workers withhold.
We can’t irradicate poverty, but we can alleviate suffering. We can allow cultures to stay true to themselves, respect their dignity, and encourage education without pretending that improvements made at the expense of families are truly improvements. When we do, we allow the most powerful to continue their quest to rid the world of poverty by convincing the poor and undesirables that it is “for their own good” not to reproduce.
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qui_est_ce
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And we carry their burdens along side.
Great post.
I do think Pope Frances is harsh. He should be building up his people. There are lots of people doing good, but he seems to focus on the negative and comes off sounding very judgmental.
Great post.
I do think Pope Frances is harsh. He should be building up his people. There are lots of people doing good, but he seems to focus on the negative and comes off sounding very judgmental.
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13pollitos
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I agree. I think that he does come across very harshly about many subjects.
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Annie
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I understand better now why you responded as you did to what I wrote. Sometimes I don’t make the point I am trying to make clear.
I also did not know that people were bringing in cable instead of water. What???
At least we can think the family planning people are trying to do (a very misguided) good, but cable instead of water doesn’t even have that going for it.
And any way you look at it, there seems to be an echo of “people we want fewer of” to the “family planning” programs.
I am also concerned about programs which target women for education, because “women are more responsible.” Wow, just make men even less part of the warp and went of society!
I don’t think that will (or is?) turning out well.
I also did not know that people were bringing in cable instead of water. What???
At least we can think the family planning people are trying to do (a very misguided) good, but cable instead of water doesn’t even have that going for it.
And any way you look at it, there seems to be an echo of “people we want fewer of” to the “family planning” programs.
I am also concerned about programs which target women for education, because “women are more responsible.” Wow, just make men even less part of the warp and went of society!
I don’t think that will (or is?) turning out well.
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graciew
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I think this becomes a turning point. When we experience first hand something,when we witness or when we suffer or go through sth ourselves. This changes us deeply.
This ,for exmple,is what I think when listening to people who have been to war themselves,the trenches or lived in a warzone personally It is like there is nothing I can say,but listen.
Nor saying here we cannot converse,please…just what happens inside .
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FirstFiveEighth
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In regards to Africa specifically, there is one point that was recently brought to my attention- Does all of the charity directed at Africa actually exacerbate poverty? I think it was a bishop who said that parts of Africa are so awash in donated clothes that it has stunted or destroyed any domestic African clothing industries. What else does this apply to? Agriculture? Construction? Charity is good but ultimately I think domestic industry is Africa’s way out of poverty. And maybe charity is preventing some of that. It’s food for thought anyways, and an angle I had not considered until that bishop brought it up.
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graciew
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Sometimes it is necessary.
If for an instant one has taken the place of someone whose voice isnt heard,the stir to speak out,to move,is somehow uncontainable.
And honestly, I am in no way speaking for the Pope,but he has been a man of the streets and the mud and the trenches and the people. I mean,one has to see what he sees …
And about being harsh,when it falls on us to fasten seat belts,well,it does…Conversion of the heart is continuous.
And it is good that it is so. It may not be comfortable…but necessary because there is hope
If for an instant one has taken the place of someone whose voice isnt heard,the stir to speak out,to move,is somehow uncontainable.
And honestly, I am in no way speaking for the Pope,but he has been a man of the streets and the mud and the trenches and the people. I mean,one has to see what he sees …
And about being harsh,when it falls on us to fasten seat belts,well,it does…Conversion of the heart is continuous.
And it is good that it is so. It may not be comfortable…but necessary because there is hope
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Annie
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This can certainly be the case. There was a similar situation in Central America that I read about in the 19980s. Some men had a dried milk business, USAID brought in tons of dried milk for 2 years, killed the business, and then stopped bringing in the milk.
So stupid!
Helping people start and grow their own businesses seems like a much better idea. Putting a Ford plant in Mexico when all the profits will be taken out of Mexico–it would have been better had Ford simply helped the Mexicans start their own company.
So stupid!
Helping people start and grow their own businesses seems like a much better idea. Putting a Ford plant in Mexico when all the profits will be taken out of Mexico–it would have been better had Ford simply helped the Mexicans start their own company.
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graciew
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A job,work is by far a wonderful option( in Africa and elsewhere) . We have a right to provide our families with our own hands. The dignity of work.But even say only a part of donated clothing,for example( and I am thinking aloud…) may be interesting raw material for teaching sewing skills and make community workshops,and in turn selling " revamped".and with the ernings one may consult the persons who sew,maybe distribute part and some other invest in improving the " business" and opening the game to sell further…
Of course people need to have shoes and clothing here and now as well,so it is both, and moving upfront,forward,improving…so with objectives in mind,everything adds. Don t you think so?
What generally happens…is that if there is surplus of donations,they are transported to any nearby location where they are needed. At least at parish,Diocese levels
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13pollitos
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I know right?!? My father in law just shook his head and walked away.
He has pushed for over 40 years now for sewer or at least a septic system and access to clean water for their town. Right now all they have are outhouses and a communal well at the river. The river is so polluted they can’t even eat the fish out of it anymore. The pollution comes from up the river where the city is. The river there is still reasonably clean. It all moves down river to where “Los Indios” live so nobody cares. The day the people came and passed out TVs, my father in law asked why since the electricity didn’t work half the time. My husband was 12 when they first got electricity. At first it was only in the church and then street lights. Finally most families got access. As recently as 10 years ago the service was really bad and often it didn’t work at all. But my FIL didn’t give up. He saw a positive because the kids were learning things they couldn’t before. Then came cell phones. That was good because we could talk more often. Then the internet for the schools he thought was great. Some families will also have internet in their homes and be able to start a business that way. But when a sewer and water filtration system were once again passed up for cable TV, he gave up.
The internet still isn’t installed, but now they do have cable. Go figure
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qui_est_ce
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Poverty, Inc.
From social entrepreneurship to foreign aid, the documentary POVERTY, INC. examines the rise of charity as a multibillion dollar poverty industry.
www.povertyinc.org
The Truth About Where Your Donated Clothes End Up
abcnews.go.com
I donate to a local thrift shop that I know will resell them there. I don’t put any clothes in the boxes at the shopping parking lots.
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FirstFiveEighth
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Agreed, although multinational corporations aren’t necessarily draining wealth from countries. I read some entertaining books from Jeremy Clarkson a while back, compositions of his old newspaper and magazine columns, and I did not realize that basically all of the car manufacturers in the world are all owned by 3-5 companies. Ford has an entirely different branch in Europe that produces different cars. Rolls Royce is owned by BMW. Volvo is owned by the Chinese. An Isuzu truck is built on the exact same chassis as a Toyota truck. The cosmetics are just different.
But the BMW plant in South Carolina produces the most BMWs of any BMW plant in the world. That production and that wealth might benefit BMW, but it also benefits American citizens and the South Carolina workers and the state of SC. I guess what I am saying is, it’s complicated.
But the BMW plant in South Carolina produces the most BMWs of any BMW plant in the world. That production and that wealth might benefit BMW, but it also benefits American citizens and the South Carolina workers and the state of SC. I guess what I am saying is, it’s complicated.
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FirstFiveEighth
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I don’t disagree really. I am sure there are many creative ways to use charity items that provides more value than just “stuff”.
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qui_est_ce
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Absolutely. That’s why platitudes condemning the rich for not doing “enough” fall flat.I guess what I am saying is, it’s complicated.
Look what’s happening in Rhodesia. Mugabe is taking land away from the rich white farmers and giving it to locals who don’t know how to farm. What do you think that has done to food supplies?
Zimbabwe white farmers must fight or flee
Thousands of Zimbabwe's white farmers must decide by midnight tonight whether to fight President Robert Mugabe's government and risk jail or to flee lands they have farmed for generations
10 PHOTOS OF PRESIDENT MUGABE’S PRIVATE MANSION IN ZIMBABWE
Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe stands with his wife Grace, as they pose for a photo at State House in Harare. The 25-bedroom private house was reportedly constructed by a Serbian construction com…
gistmagazine.wordpress.com
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Annie
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This was a long time ago, but a thrift shop near me took the excess and unsellable clothes, tore them into strips, and wove them into things they sold in the shop.
It sounds like something poor people in the city could do on backstrap looms to sell to tourists and export groups.
It sounds like something poor people in the city could do on backstrap looms to sell to tourists and export groups.
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graciew
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Yes,there are. And there safe networks as well to make the best out of donations.Like a chain where every piece does its proper job.
And also,here,we tebd niw to ask for concrete things so that we can donate to where it is necessary and we can help.more.
If what is needed is this,thus and that and for this age group and these amount of kids,we focus on that specifically. And then move to some other need As we can,little or big,and as God provides.
But yes,when one gives,one gives, and we put it in God’s hands and we trust. We work and pray and we trust in Providence as well. He knows best.
We know this. Just sharing
And also,here,we tebd niw to ask for concrete things so that we can donate to where it is necessary and we can help.more.
If what is needed is this,thus and that and for this age group and these amount of kids,we focus on that specifically. And then move to some other need As we can,little or big,and as God provides.
But yes,when one gives,one gives, and we put it in God’s hands and we trust. We work and pray and we trust in Providence as well. He knows best.
We know this. Just sharing
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