Poorly Formed Catholics Biggest Obstacle to New Evangelization

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If the witnesses cannot or will not witness, very little effective evangelization will occur. Potential converts will hear a bastardized, corrupted, or compromised message – often based on private opinion, popular misunderstanding, feeling, or conflicting information. It is not possible for merely a minority core group of Catholics to carry the day; their message is not being heard over the roar of cacophany in the lamely catechized modern Catholic population.

Vatican 2 is not responsible for this situation. (As has often been accurately repeated.) However, the fact remains that even poorly practicing Catholics prior to V2 did know their faith, and the tenets of that faith (including the disciplines & practices) were therefore also widely recognized outside of the faith. Watch some old black & white movies in which the subject surfaces for some reason (marriage, divorce, death, any number of narrative issues). You will notice that the non-Catholic characters in those movies pick up immediately on what that Catholicity suggests, and that understanding reflected what was also known in the real world. In real life, everything from the articles of the Creed to Holy Days of Obligation were recognized by non-Catholics as representing the authentic Catholic faith. There was no such thing as an alternate Catholic faith (to the non-Catholic world), or several thousand different versions of Catholicism, depending on that Catholic’s “private beliefs.”

And (surprise!) there still is no such thing as an alternate Catholic faith.

And while I do understand what V2 did and did not say (none of which was heresy or even a “new” Catholicism), I continue to be troubled by some of the loosely interpreted tributaries in areas such as liturgy, because liturgy is not “just” worship: worship is a reflection of what and how we believe. The permission to use the vernacular (worldwide) has been expanded to include so many cultural practices, that in the case of the U.S., that often translates to a populist version of Catholicism, as opposed to a faithful version.

That ^ becomes evident in the annual liturgical conferences held in such places as Los Angeles. (Not to be confused with the Eucharistic conferences, such as the one in Ireland.) These conferences are a motley of make-it-up-as-you-go liturgy, as well as lyrics, talks, homilies, etc. which any observer interested in Catholicism would receive as a very confusing representation of our faith.

Others have already touched on the catechesis crisis, one which has not gone away. **I think it is so evident that this is the first place to start, and that it is time to revise catechetical regulations (this has been suggested by some clergy on CAF, too) so that examinations are required prior to Confirmation, at any age. And there should be a massive initiative on behalf of adult re-catechesis. ** Initially, that would tax the priesthood and/or other religious, as it would require vetting of instructors by theologically trained priests/sisters; but once accurate theological training was assessed for lay teachers who have gone through the many graduate schools and other Catholic training institutions/programs, lay teachers could assume this task, with mere oversight by pastors and other religious.
As always, E, you are right on the mark! Can you believe that our DRE initiated the bolded part above and we are offering adult catechesis in our parish (with our pastor’s aid and blessing.) And we do have a written exam for Confirmation students. I haven’t heard how many adults are taking advantage of this, and my guess would be, probably not many, but we have to start somewhere. I wish we would hear a catechism lesson combined with the homily every Sunday, but that isn’t happening. A clever pastor can sneak this in. 😉

Other positive things to generate a renewed spirituality in our parish has been the offering of the Neo-Cat program (I have personal reservations about this one) and we just had a parish mission with a lay charismatic missionary. (Not my particular choice, either, but to each his own.) Sadly our numbers at the middle of the week Adoration and Benediction have not grown, but we are trying various means to reach everyone.
 
As always, E, you are right on the mark! Can you believe that our DRE initiated the bolded part above and we are offering adult catechesis in our parish (with our pastor’s aid and blessing.) And we do have a written exam for Confirmation students. I haven’t heard how many adults are taking advantage of this, and my guess would be, probably not many, but we have to start somewhere. I wish we would hear a catechism lesson combined with the homily every Sunday, but that isn’t happening. A clever pastor can sneak this in. 😉

Other positive things to generate a renewed spirituality in our parish has been the offering of the Neo-Cat program (I have personal reservations about this one) and we just had a parish mission with a lay charismatic missionary. (Not my particular choice, either, but to each his own.) Sadly our numbers at the middle of the week Adoration and Benediction have not grown, but we are trying various means to reach everyone.
So what happens when a kid fails the confirmation exam? Do the lawyers show up?
 
And we do have a written exam for Confirmation students.
Are the students who fail the exam then denied the graces conferred by the Holy Spirit through the sacrament? And what about the students who fail the written exam and decide not to persue confirmation? Is this what Catholicism is about? And does the diocese know about the test?
 
Are the students who fail the exam then denied the graces conferred by the Holy Spirit through the sacrament? And what about the students who fail the written exam and decide not to persue confirmation? Is this what Catholicism is about? And does the diocese know about the test?
As far as I’m aware, our DRE and our pastor are the two who adminster the test to evaluate the maturity and understanding of the confirmands. No where in my post did I imply that failure to pass would deny the Sacrament and I suspect that this could not be done in any case as it would have to come from the bishop. I do not know exactly how the process works - only that the test is one of several steps which enable them to more properly prepare the kids for Confirmation.
 
Are the students who fail the exam then denied the graces conferred by the Holy Spirit through the sacrament? And what about the students who fail the written exam and decide not to persue confirmation? Is this what Catholicism is about?
Hmm. Catholicism is, among other things, about truth. Sacraments are not mere empty rituals. They signify, and as such the administer of each sacrament has a sacred duty to ensure that the person receiving the sacrament has the knowledge necessary to understand and perform what those graces signify. In the case of infant baptism, that full knowledge and right disposition is assumed by the parents/guardians, and the point is all that is assumed by and through baptism will be further followed by conscientious faith-filled parents. To that end, most priests have some meeting with the parents to assess that the parents understand the seriousness of this responsibility.

Sacramental grace is not conferred automatically or magically by the Holy Spirit. The effectiveness of the grace is partly dependent on the disposition of the person receiving the sacrament. This is standard, classic Roman Catholic sacramental theology. Affirmation on the part of the confirmand is a key feature of Confirmation. If you don’t know what your faith is, you can’t proclaim and defend it.

Bravo to Tigg’s parish.
🙂
 
I will add after Tigg’s reply that where I have heard examinations happening as a step in the process, those examinations are early enough to allow for remediation, but that indeed if there is later insufficient understanding of the faith, the date for that candidate is reset for another time, and there are a variety of options in that regard.

Also, I’m thrilled that finally our diocese has reverted to the previous age for Confirmation --Grades 7/8 – (instead of 10/11 :eek:), and my understanding is that that will start with this upcoming academic year. While that seems off-topic, that actually will benefit the examination process, for a number of reasons.
 
Are the students who fail the exam then denied the graces conferred by the Holy Spirit through the sacrament? And what about the students who fail the written exam and decide not to persue confirmation? Is this what Catholicism is about? And does the diocese know about the test?
See what I mean. Look at this post. The “we have rights” brigade shows up. :mad::mad::mad:
 
I will add after Tigg’s reply that where I have heard examinations happening as a step in the process, those examinations are early enough to allow for remediation, but that indeed if there is later insufficient understanding of the faith, the date for that candidate is reset for another time, and there are a variety of options in that regard.
Yes, this is correct, but you have to have a strong, confident pastor for this to work–one with the support of the parish. Because you will get whiners, trust me.
 
Yes it is frustrating…but then I think that we all have “logs in our eyes” or at least we did at one time. Let us be both charitable AND active within our spheres of family and parish and communities to get write and proper understanding out there. This is the biggest and most important thing we can do.
I would add to the good posts here that we also have the group of Catholics who are dead set on staying in the church to change it.
I agree. I especially agree with the last sentence. I don’t think that those ‘who want to stay in the Church so that they can change it from the inside’ are necessarily bad, though, even when they want radical change as long as they want to remain inside and don’t cause so much trouble that they need to be excommunicated. Dissent, even when wrong, if its from the inside, helps to strengthen the Church by helping the rest to determine why the truth is the truth. The dissenters often have some truth, even when wrong, that the Church needs to deal with as well.
 
Seems everyone is on board with this particular perspective. And while I have seen no lack of this issue, I also see a lot of the opposite issue: children being raised in abominably strict, sterile households where even charity is sanitized away. For those people, they forever associate “Catholic” with an unloving environment.

When I was growing up, I was fortunate enough to know literally a handful of people (no, they were not family) who exemplified love of God and fellow man, were passionately Catholic, and embraced the Church rules. Note the order in which I put those. I credit them with being my primary faith-related influence. What the Church needs is more people who live the heart and soul of being Catholic; those are the people that attract the good kind of attention for having a serenity that is other-worldly.
Too true. My Dad who is now in his seventies is still bothered by an upbringing that was ‘abominably strict and sterile’. His experience is that the whole Church prior to Vatican II was like that and he has talked to a number of people from his generation who agree. He is still faithful to the Church, but he still feels the pain and it is my not so humble opinion that the rest of our family have been indirectly hurt by that bitterness. (Out of our family of nine only my Dad, myself, and a sister go to Church now.)

I am not so naive as to think my Dad’s experience is the whole or even a major part of the story of what the Church was before Vatican II, but it is a cautionary tale.

I agree as well with the second paragraph. Let the people ‘know we are Christians by our love’ and they will come and they will listen.
 
I have been extremely impressed by the insights of the posters on this thread. There are so many people who said variants of the below that I want to give thumbs up to.
Others have already touched on the catechesis crisis, one which has not gone away. I think it is so evident that this is the first place to start, and that it is time to revise catechetical regulations (this has been suggested by some clergy on CAF, too) so that examinations are required prior to Confirmation, at any age. And there should be a massive initiative on behalf of adult re-catechesis. Initially, that would tax the priesthood and/or other religious, as it would require vetting of instructors by theologically trained priests/sisters; but once accurate theological training was assessed for lay teachers who have gone through the many graduate schools and other Catholic training institutions/programs, lay teachers could assume this task, with mere oversight by pastors and other religious.
I disagree that strict testing for those receiving the sacraments is necessary. (Fix the catachesis and the problem goes away. Make the classes useful and people WILL attend.) I agree that the catechesis crisis IS the main issue.

Before the ministry shortage we grew too dependent on the priests and nuns. There were enough of them to ensure that everybody was well trained. After the ministry shortage, catechesis suffered dramatically since the lay people had to take over when they were not fully trained or fully dedicated. One priest per parish and no brothers nor sisters is just not enough. The occurrence of Vatican II at the same time did not help; although it was necessary.

If only the bishops would fully listen to your suggestion.
 
Prof. Janet E Smith wrote three months ago:
How very, very devious of the Holy Spirit to use the insidious HHS mandate as a means of getting the Church’s teaching on contraception not only before the public, but before Catholics.
I have been trying to help priests for some years to preach on contraception. Perhaps a dozen bishops or so have invited me to speak to their priests on the subject of “How to Promote Humanae Vitae and Natural Family Planning in the Parish.” As part of the presentation I comment on how rare it is for priests to preach on any moral topic.
catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=26987

This is the time to educate Catholics on contraception, which is one of the biggest issues. Priests need to speak about contraception in Church.
 
I apologize for the flurry of posts, but there were so many good posters on this thread that I thought deserved a reply. This includes many to whom I didn’t reply.

To respond to the main thread, I find it very sad that the primary way that our Church sees poorly formed Catholics is not as lost sheep who need more and better shepherds but as obstacles if not wolves.

Our shepherds have failed and continue to fail at the very basics of catechesis. We have a responsibility to make that fact known loud and clear to our Bishops.
 
Prof. Janet E Smith wrote three months ago:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=26987

This is the time to educate Catholics on contraception, which is one of the biggest issues. Priests need to speak about contraception in Church.
We have to walk before we can run. I am not certain that many Priests are even theologically or oratorically (for the lack of a better word) qualified to deal with this issue.

Catholics don’t even know the very basics of our faith and don’t understand why the sacraments are important. The Church is not a real presence in their lives. They do not see the Church as a force of good for the world because we have lost our missionary presence. We have no religious brothers nor sisters to show us by example how to lead a holy life.

I don’t mean to scoff at your suggestion nor do I want to say we should only take on the most pressing needs and ignore the ones that are less pressing but still important. But with the make-up of the Church and the authority of its leaders hanging on by a thread I think that following that particular quotation at this juncture will cause significantly more problems then it solves.
 
We have to walk before we can run. I am not certain that many Priests are even theologically or oratorically (for the lack of a better word) qualified to deal with this issue.

Catholics don’t even know the very basics of our faith and don’t understand why the sacraments are important. The Church is not a real presence in their lives. They do not see the Church as a force of good for the world because we have lost our missionary presence. We have no religious brothers nor sisters to show us by example how to lead a holy life.

I don’t mean to scoff at your suggestion nor do I want to say we should only take on the most pressing needs and ignore the ones that are less pressing but still important. But with the make-up of the Church and the authority of its leaders hanging on by a thread I think that following that particular quotation at this juncture will cause significantly more problems then it solves.
It does not have to be an either or in what gets priority for education. There are plenty of resources for Priests on how to preach about contraception and abortion that laypeople can send their priest, or the Priests can get themselves. On the article I linked from Janet E. Smith she shows some of the resources and at Priests For Life there are resources for Priests on abortion:

priestsforlife.org/preaching/index.htm
 
Yes, this is correct, but you have to have a strong, confident pastor for this to work–one with the support of the parish. Because you will get whiners, trust me.
Oh yes, you will - my ears are still ringing! 🙂
 
Yep…and I find it so frustrating. I would add to the good posts here that we also have the group of Catholics who are dead set on staying in the church to change it.
We have some in our parish too. Have never ever seen them at our adult Christian Formation classes, though. 🤷
 
The biggest problem is simply the secularization of society and the resultant lessening influence of mainstream churches. Megachurches who teach the prosperity gospel and provide entertainment and various secular programs for members seem to be doing well in many instances. Rick Warren and other similar authors have been selling briskly. People still want spiritual guideposts but even the Catholic church has allowed itself to lose much of its spiritual authority, for reasons I don’t understand - complacency maybe? We are currently invited to three weddings this summer, none of which will be in a church of any kind. Twenty years ago that would have been unthinkable.
I think it comes down to a loss of faith.

When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us a god who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.”

To me the same coud be said about this generation. Its been two thousand years since the comming of the Mesiah and already people have made golden calves in some form or fashion.
 
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