Pope accepts Cardinal O'Brien's resignation

[LisaA]

I respect what you’re saying, and at one point I had a similar faith-crisis, until I realized that when it came to my own crisis (not necessarily yours), my faith had been weak to begin with. Our faith is not in men (or women!). Our faith is in the Holy Spirit who guides the True Church of Jesus.

Two things about that:

(1) Its leaders are sinners, some of them heavy sinners like the rest of us.
(2) Its leaders sometimes manage poorly.

The latter is the key point that too many Catholics, ex-, and anti- don’t seriously consider.

Seminaries train men for the priesthood, and most of that training is still largely spiritual in nature, not practical – although there have been adjustments to the training of priests in the last 10 years. We will also begin to see gradual changes (maybe faster than we expect) in management capability as the Church continues to accept into its ranks priests and deacons who come from careers in the world, in which they have managed successfully and know the heck what an HR department is.

Direct and indirect changes will diminish the previous ill-advised tendency for self-protection and “damage control,” and increase (hopefully!) transparency. This general commitment to justice on the practical level continues to be a priority need of the Church, and I don’t just mean in the area of sexual abuse, but in the case of many other documented incidents of extremely poor clerical management – for example, in hiring and firing of diocesan employees. There are many, many cases on the local level in dioceses which have demonstated gross mismanagement.

We are looking at the end result of an older generation of priests, bishops, cardinals, who were not trained in modern understandings about accountability, transparency, and employee dignity in church settings. Their consciousness and courage about these issues has varied according to both their personal character AND according to the leadership they themselves received. (Some older clerics have had a high level of moral consciousness about their relationships with laity! Others, not so much.) Some of these men did not examine the consequences of secrecy and immunity and the model of authority they themselves were trained in.

I know of at least one person who is working in my region on institutional procedures in a diocese for bringing any sex abuse complaints to light. That’s being done as a joint lay-clerical effort. My own diocese has such established procedures already, and is very high-profile, having been in the national news about that. They lag behind in other areas of management (hiring/firing procedures), so there are still many areas of improvement. The continued need for improvement does not mean that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church; it means that just like us individuals, there is need for improvement.

Great post and certainly bears repeating. As someone who converted during the abuse scandal and as someone who has had a LOT of personal and professional interaction with homosexuals a) I was not surprised by the behavior of these men and b) the upper eschelons in some cases didn’t understand the real problem (predatory homosexuals) and thus thought that the men could either be cured or solve the problem by getting them out of the specific enviornment. It speaks to your point of men who have been insulated from “the real world” in many areas, from personnel to accounting to best practices in organizations. Further the insular nature made it difficult if not impossible to address the problems…if the public KNEW what would happen? Those in crisis management in business generally suggest get the problem out into the “disinfectant of sunshine” as Justice Learned Hand stated. Obviously the cover up proved nearly as problematic as the abuse.

I think there was a period of cultural decline in the seminaries. When converting I read about certain seminaries being known for homosexual activity and chaste, orthodox applicants were denied entrance. Also think there was a time when the seminary was a safe place for a homosexual to “hide” because there were no questions about marriage and children. Perhaps one of the few positive aspects of homosexuality no longer being such a negative label, is that those who were drawn to the priesthood for less than spiritual reasons have other career paths.

Also encouraging is the number of second career priests. Our seminary has been bursting at the seams and a number of the men are not young and inexperienced but have had successful careers in business, medicine, education, etc. So I am cautiously optimistic about the futue of the Church.

Lisa

 

[sojo]

I am not shocked by the actions or allegations so much. Nor is my faith in Jesus and His church at all shook. Every successor to the apostle is a sinner and some have no doubt sinned pretty darn good. My faith is not determined by how badly the bishops or Cardinals have sinned. Nor am I surprised that some of the “old men” made stupid and unethical decisions in the past, with or without the generational difference as an excuse.

What is upsetting to me… no unsettling is a better word… is the fact that we are at a crisis in the Church with the possibility of a larger sex scandal at the very top of the hierarchy in the Church, facing a new (for our generation) situation of a Pope stepping down, and now a Cardinal stepping down right before a conclave, AND the fact that in a few days, the Church will have no Pope. No Papa. No leader.

It is one thing to go through a crisis and some new situations, its another to do it without a Pope, during a conclave when our top religious leaders, the Cardinals, will be in conclave.

I am reassured, however, that the Cardinals will feel the burden of this even more acutely than I, and I’m sure this will be one of the most rapid conclaves one could imagine.

I am certain, as well, that the gravity of the job being put before the next Pope will affect both the choice of who is elected AND who is willing to serve as Pope. And that burden will be even worse in that the next Pope will know his work has no chance of NOT being closely examined by the entire world as the revelation of possible sexual scandal has been all over the media. Everyone now KNOWS that the next Pope will have a private report regarding the investigation on his desk the day he takes the throne.

So the situation is unsettling and overwhelming. But I will be praying to Bl. John Paul II and remembering his words to “be not afraid.”

 

[Lisa1967]

I am not shocked by the actions or allegations so much. Nor is my faith in Jesus and His church at all shook. Every successor to the apostle is a sinner and some have no doubt sinned pretty darn good. My faith is not determined by how badly the bishops or Cardinals have sinned. Nor am I surprised that some of the “old men” made stupid and unethical decisions in the past, with or without the generational difference as an excuse.

What is upsetting to me… no unsettling is a better word… is the fact that we are at a crisis in the Church with the possibility of a larger sex scandal at the very top of the hierarchy in the Church, facing a new (for our generation) situation of a Pope stepping down, and now a Cardinal stepping down right before a conclave, AND the fact that in a few days, the Church will have no Pope. No Papa. No leader.

It is one thing to go through a crisis and some new situations, its another to do it without a Pope, during a conclave when our top religious leaders, the Cardinals, will be in conclave.

I am reassured, however, that the Cardinals will feel the burden of this even more acutely than I, and I’m sure this will be one of the most rapid conclaves one could imagine.

I am certain, as well, that the gravity of the job being put before the next Pope will affect both the choice of who is elected AND who is willing to serve as Pope. And that burden will be even worse in that the next Pope will know his work has no chance of NOT being closely examined by the entire world as the revelation of possible sexual scandal has been all over the media. Everyone now KNOWS that the next Pope will have a private report regarding the investigation on his desk the day he takes the throne.

So the situation is unsettling and overwhelming. But I will be praying to Bl. John Paul II and remembering his words to “be not afraid.”

I agree for the need for prayer.

There is a thread on the Catholic Living/Spirituality form called Looking for 118 Companions where Melissa is looking for prayer partners for cardinals attending the conclave. Many cardinals still need to be adopted. Come join us. I am praying for Cardinal Burke.

 

[Lucky7]

I agree for the need for prayer.

There is a thread on the Catholic Living/Spirituality form called Looking for 118 Companions where Melissa is looking for prayer partners for cardinals attending the conclave. Many cardinals still need to be adopted. Come join us. I am praying for Cardinal Burke.

Lisa, I can’t seem to find it. Maybe I’m blind as a bat. Could you share a link?

 

[Lisa1967]

Lucky7, I don’t know how to do that.

You could go to the Search function (at the top) and type in 118. Then you’ll see the thread.

 

[chero23]

I have to think that a trusted companion selling out our Savior for thirty pieces of silver takes the cake in terms of scandal, no? Yet the Church survived and thrived. It will again.

The focus on hierarchy tends to make some of us forget that the Church is the ordinary layman and parish priest as much as it is the Cardinals and Rome.

You mentioned the great example of judas. Remember how all the apostles ran when Jesus was in the cross. The first leader of God’s church on earth, denied Jesus 3 times. We have to be strong on our faith. Bc father x in LA or father y in New York violated kids 30 yrs ago does that mean we have to run too. On the contrary, lets be brave and show some courage and stand by Jesus while he’s in the cross.

 

[Lucky7]

Lucky7, I don’t know how to do that.

You could go to the Search function (at the top) and type in 118. Then you’ll see the thread.

Got it. Signed up for Cardinal Rouco…found his bio interesting.

 

[seekerz]

You mentioned the great example of judas. Remember how all the apostles ran when Jesus was in the cross. The first leader of God’s church on earth, denied Jesus 3 times. We have to be strong on our faith. Bc father x in LA or father y in New York violated kids 30 yrs ago does that mean we have to run too. On the contrary, lets be brave and show some courage and stand by Jesus while he’s in the cross.

Exactly. We think we’re seeing something now, but what of the multiple heresies, splits and actual wars that our Church has survived throughout history? External persecution is hardly the greatest threat we have had to weather. Any person or entity associated with Christ must expect the Cross to come, in all shapes and forms, from within and from without - it goes with the territory.

 

[Lisa1967]

Got it. Signed up for Cardinal Rouco…found his bio interesting.

Glad you found it. Hope others join us. The conclave date should be set soon.

 

[YoungTradCath]

What is he resigning, his archbishopric or his title?

 

[Slaney]

The parable of the sower always springs up in my mind when I hear the despair of some Catholics who are struggling…

*Matthew 13:21 ***yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. **

Don’t fall for satans snares ! Jesus warned us about it…

 

[thomasf]

What upsets me is that every time I think it can’t get any worse, it gets worse. It seems as though there are piles of scandals just waiting to be outed, and that needs to stop. We need to clean house and get these people out. Period. No more scandals. And I don’t care what anyone says, the church loses credibility with each scandal. This has got to stop.

 

[cheezey]

What upsets me is that every time I think it can’t get any worse, it gets worse. It seems as though there are piles of scandals just waiting to be outed, and that needs to stop. We need to clean house and get these people out. Period. No more scandals. And I don’t care what anyone says, the church loses credibility with each scandal. This has got to stop.

agreed

 

[CarolNoel]

Please God let this end someday. I love our faith and mine is secure, but I can see so many others struggling because of this.

 

[tbcrawford]

Yes the press is anti-Catholic to a great degree. But we must admit to ourselves that that they are not the true problem. The Church itself is the problem. The way it runs and functions, the lack of transparency, the rebelliousness of our clergy and lay people. Everyone in the Church is being given to much slack and are now openly wandering from the true teachings and many are getting out of line and disobedient. They must be reigned in. These problems are of our own making, not the press’s.

We will absolutely need a very strong, iron willed, no-nonsense Pope this time around. One that will clean things up, take on the abuse problem and the rebellious clergy once and for all no matter the cost. He must be respected and even feared a little by those under him. Cleaning up the mess will be job 1…

 

[tbcrawford]

What upsets me is that every time I think it can’t get any worse, it gets worse. It seems as though there are piles of scandals just waiting to be outed, and that needs to stop. We need to clean house and get these people out. Period. No more scandals. And I don’t care what anyone says, the church loses credibility with each scandal. This has got to stop.

Absolutely agree

 

[Slaney]

Yes the press is anti-Catholic to a great degree. But we must admit to ourselves that that they are not the true problem. The Church itself is the problem. The way it runs and functions, the lack of transparency, **the rebelliousness of our clergy **and lay people.

The words spoken at Fatima are still being fulfilled it would seem to me !

 

[ellzeena]

The words spoken at Fatima are still being fulfilled it would seem to me !

I agree. Frankly, although this does not in any way harm my faith (because I do keep my eye on Jesus), I have become fearful of the outcome of this conclave. We know where fear comes from but it is an emotional response and so I combat it by reminding myself that Jesus defeated the world, that He does not change, that He will be with us “unto the end of the age”, and that ultimately God IS victorious. I think this next Papal election will either be the ruin of the Church or Her salvation. I guess it all remains to be seen, only God knows the outcome.

 

[Joe_5859]

What is he resigning, his archbishopric or his title?

He’s retiring from his position as Archbishop of Saint Andrews and Edinburgh, Scotland, Great Britain.

Actually, since his 75th birthday is coming up, he had already sent his letter of resignation as per Canon Law. The Pope simply decided to accept it right away.

He’ll always be a bishop and a cardinal. I’ve never heard of someone renouncing those titles. I’m not sure that would even have any practical implications.

 

[Slaney]

I agree. Frankly, although this does not in any way harm my faith (because I do keep my eye on Jesus), I have become fearful of the outcome of this conclave. We know where fear comes from but it is an emotional response and so I combat it by reminding myself that Jesus defeated the world, that He does not change, that He will be with us “unto the end of the age”, and that ultimately God IS victorious. I think this next Papal election will either be the ruin of the Church or Her salvation. I guess it all remains to be seen, only God knows the outcome.

It will either be the Church’s darkest hour or new dawn, look how bleak it must have been on Calvary, Jesus said " The Gates of Hell would not prevail " that’s all we need to know…