Pope and his homilies are equally interesting

[JReducation]

I’ve been hanging out with Catholics for too long

This, I didn’t know.

It’s an interesting point that men entering Orders now feel more of a calling to be Brothers rather than Priests. (I know I got that wrong, I think you explained somewhere Brothers can be Priests, but you understand what I’m saying, called to the Religious life but not the Priesthood).

It’s also interesting that the Pope, the most senior figure in the Church, comes from the ranks of the Religious, which is experiencing this growth.

Perhaps it’s a sign that the renewal I hear people say the Church needs will come from those who embrace, in the form of being a living embodiment and public witness to, the ideals of poverty.

Sarah x

Renewal is going to come from a return to what things were once. Religious are religious. Priests are priests. Laity is laity. Once in a while, you may have that special person to whom God calls to be two of the above.

The problem that so many people are having is that they do not get to see religious life in their parishes. They’re not familiar with certain points of view and certain acts of austerity that are normal for those of us who are religious. To the average Catholic in the pew, a pope who lives in a two room suite at a one star hotel is outrageous. To us who are religious, this sounds right if that pope is a religious, because it’s what we have been programmed to do and how we’ve been programmed to think about the Church and about the papacy. We see it as a ministry, not as a monarchy.

Bro. That is a very good explanation. For those of us raise with religious priest, we have lived with Popes that we just could not identify with. At times, it felt like I was a part of a whole other religion. I feel more connected to the Church now as never before, so I feel for those who are trying to adjust to Pope Francis and his ways, but I truly feel if they are patient, they will see a “purer” church that is very Christ like. Hopefully they will start to remember that Christ did not want to wear fancy, expensive clothes or live in a ornate home. He wanted to be with people. speaking directly to them, not from a balcony, but face to face, as one of them.

Shelby has hit on something. I just got back from a the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. The Church sits 1200. Every seat was taken. The aisles were full. They had to make special arrangements to distribute Holy Communion. Those people are delighted with the new pope. Afterward, some were saying that they had been hoping for a pope who is like the friars. These people grew up with friars. The have Trinitarians, Franciscans and Discalced Carmelites in the local community, not under one roof, but working together.

They’re used to seeing the friars take the bus. They’re used giving the friars a ride. They’re used to friars who sleep under bridges at night. They’re used friars who miss meals, because they don’t have money to buy food or because they gave away their food to some poor family. Their used to friars who are very joyful, who laugh a great deal, who are often playful and at the same time are scholars and holy men.

These folks are used to the idea that if they’re not in the confessional by 5PM, they have to make an appointment, because the friars have community recreation at 5:15 and supper at 6:00. They’re used to friars who can only be available three or four hours a day, because they have duties in the community. They’re used to working alongside the friars in ministry and in many other projects, such as changing a roof.

They’re even used to calling me Father, even though I’m not a priest and calling our priests Brother, because our constitution says that only the superior is Father. Even though we dress the same, they know who can hear their confession. They also know when they have to ask the superior for permission to get something from one of the priests. For example, they came to me first and asked if one of our priests could celebrate the EF for them.

The majority of Catholics do not have this experience. The majority have the secular diocesan clergy. The relationship is very different. Most dioceses are governed by bishops form the secular clergy. That relationship is different.

I think that many people whose life experience has been in parishes and institutions run by religious men feel very comfortable with this style of pope.

The good thing is that in a year, no one will notice. We’ll all be comfortable.

 

[CmGuy89]

Br JR, your posts about the Holy Father continue to be very enlightening. As I’ve always said, you bring great comfort to some of us besieged by nasty comments on the Internet. Thank you for illuminating a bit on what Pope Francis is like.

 

[JReducation]

Br JR, your posts about the Holy Father continue to be very enlightening. As I’ve always said, you bring great comfort to some of us besieged by nasty comments on the Internet. Thank you for illuminating a bit on what Pope Francis is like.

I find that what is being said about this man is very unfair and borders on slander. This is no different from the time when people went on a campaign about Pope Benedict being culpable for the actions of sex offenders in the Church.

At some point someone has to say, “BASTA!” Enough!

Even if we don’t quiet those destructive voices on the Internet and elsewhere, at least we can add something positive into the conversation. I always tell my brothers that if they don’t look at St. Francis, they will never learn to live in the Church. Francis did not waste time or energy on the insanity in the Church of his day and around the Church. He focused on one simple truth. This truth he preached to his brothers and to the laity. That truth is that we are sinners.

Our energy is better spent doing penance for our sins. All the whining, complaining, finger pointing and criticizing in the world will never get us into heaven. Actually, it obstructs our journey. At some point, if one spends too much time on the negative, the evil spirits can use that to lead us down the path of anger, resentment, defamation of character, quarrels, and many other things that make so much noise in our heads and souls, that it becomes impossible to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.

 

[choliks]

Shelby has hit on something. I just got back from a the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. The Church sits 1200. Every seat was taken. The aisles were full. They had to make special arrangements to distribute Holy Communion. Those people are delighted with the new pope. Afterward, some were saying that they had been hoping for a pope who is like the friars. These people grew up with friars. The have Trinitarians, Franciscans and Discalced Carmelites in the local community, not under one roof, but working together.

They’re used to seeing the friars take the bus. They’re used giving the friars a ride. They’re used to friars who sleep under bridges at night. They’re used friars who miss meals, because they don’t have money to buy food or because they gave away their food to some poor family. Their used to friars who are very joyful, who laugh a great deal, who are often playful and at the same time are scholars and holy men.

These folks are used to the idea that if they’re not in the confessional by 5PM, they have to make an appointment, because the friars have community recreation at 5:15 and supper at 6:00. They’re used to friars who can only be available three or four hours a day, because they have duties in the community. They’re used to working alongside the friars in ministry and in many other projects, such as changing a roof.

They’re even used to calling me Father, even though I’m not a priest and calling our priests Brother, because our constitution says that only the superior is Father. Even though we dress the same, they know who can hear their confession. They also know when they have to ask the superior for permission to get something from one of the priests. For example, they came to me first and asked if one of our priests could celebrate the EF for them.

The majority of Catholics do not have this experience. The majority have the secular diocesan clergy. The relationship is very different. Most dioceses are governed by bishops form the secular clergy. That relationship is different.

I think that many people whose life experience has been in parishes and institutions run by religious men feel very comfortable with this style of pope.

The good thing is that in a year, no one will notice. We’ll all be comfortable.

I witnessed this too with my Mom when we went to the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. After the Mass she suddenly told me her frustration and disappointment, that the renovation of the church will include an expensive and ornate sanctuary and altar. She said she preferred the austerity of our last (Jesuit-run) parish. I had to explain to her the difference between the regular and diocesan priests. I also told her how the direction of the renovation would be the bishop’s call, and our preferences is irrelevant. I finally told her that she was spoiled by the Jesuits. she laughed.

 

[Marie5890]

Our energy is better spent doing penance for our sins. All the whining, complaining, finger pointing and criticizing in the world will never get us into heaven. Actually, it obstructs our journey. At some point, if one spends too much time on the negative, the evil spirits can use that to lead us down the path of anger, resentment, defamation of character, quarrels, and many other things that make so much noise in our heads and souls, that it becomes impossible to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.

(bold is mine)

I find those insights very personally helpful at this point in time in my journey. Thank you

 

[simple_soul]

(bold is mine)

I find those insights very personally helpful at this point in time in my journey. Thank you

Me too.

 

[LogisticsBranch]

A cardinal is an honorary title given to a Catholic male. He need not be a priest. Currently, all of the cardinals are bishops. The last cardinal who was not a bishop died a few years ago.

A religious doesn’t cross over. He remains a religious. That is, he remains a member of his religious community. As a cardinal, he has additional rights and responsibilities in the Church: these include helping the pope govern and electing the pope.

There are less cardinals who are religious, because the number of religious is less than the number of secular priests. Once upon a time, most men who wanted to be priests would also enter a religious order become both, priest and religious. That has not been the case during the last 60 years. The majority of men called to the priesthood are not called to be consecrated men. They join a diocese and remain secular men. On the flip side, the larger number of men being called to be consecrated men are not being called to be priests. They join religious orders, but don’t become priests.

Hello JReducation Hope you don’t mind me commenting . I like to add tad more fullness to your discussion.

*Vatican City, March 15 - Cardinals are the pontiff’s priests, Pope Francis told them at an informal meeting isnide the Vatican Friday.

“We are brothers, the cardinals are the priests of the Holy Father, we live that community, that friendship and closeness which will do us all good,” the new pope told the College of Cardinals in the Clementine Hall.

Francis, who is expected to try to end reported splits in the Catholic Church’s governing body, the Curia, stressed the importance of Church unity.*
lifeinitaly.com/news/en/177119

Also, The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops does have a valuable website for those interested. A few quotes from the document regarding “Discerning Men”:

1. The purpose of this site is to provide answers to questions about the priesthood and/or consecrated life and to help you on the journey to discern your own vocation. Our goal is to provide you with the information, support and encouragement you need to continue your journey. Here you will find resources to help you to take that next step in responding to the call of Christ. We believe you will see that life as a priest or brother is not only rewarding, but fun and exciting too. May God bless you as you search for His holy will.
2. Find a Religious Vocation Director

A religious priest or brother commits himself to Christ and the Christian community by the Evangelical Counsels, or vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. This consecrated life is expressed in various forms: Eremitic Life, Religious Life, Secular Institutes, and Societies of Apostolic Life. Each form is described by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and we have provided a link, where possible, that will help you learn more about the various forms of Consecrated Life and be in contact with those that interest you.
A religious doesn’t cross over. He remains a religious. That is, he remains a member of his religious community. As a cardinal, he has additional rights and responsibilities in the Church: these include helping the pope govern and electing the pope. usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/discerning-men/

The problem that so many people are having is that they do not get to see religious life in their parishes. They’re not familiar with certain points of view and certain acts of austerity that are normal for those of us who are religious. To the average Catholic in the pew, a pope who lives in a two room suite at a one star hotel is outrageous. To us who are religious, this sounds right if that pope is a religious, because it’s what we have been programmed to do and how we’ve been programmed to think about the Church and about the papacy. We see it as a ministry, not as a monarchy.

I think there are plenty of people today that are extremely active inside and outside of the church. I’ve even known a priest that went door to door through neighborhoods knocking at the front door asking, “Are you a Catholic?” He was a very holy priest with a wonderful sense of humor.

I love Pope Francis, but then again I continue to love every Pope that came before him. Each Pope brought something special into my own personal life. I recall seeing Pope John Paul when I younger at an outdoor Mass. I climbed a very high hill faraway from the crowd and listened to his voice as it echoed from speakers that were all over the hilltops.
When he got into the helicopter to fly off I took out a bottle of MR BUBBLES and began to furiously blow them in the air from that high hill I stood on. I’m a little over 5 feet tall and petite but thought he might hope to meet me there. His helicopter hoovered over me for several minutes. I cried and kept blowing those bubbles into the air, thinking to myself he must be smiling at me or giggling.! One of the happiest days of my life.

There was a very holy priest from long ago that told me, “Look for the extraordinary in the ordinary.”

May God bless you.

P.S. Dee, does that answer your question to me?

 

[Lormar]

I find that what is being said about this man is very unfair and borders on slander. This is no different from the time when people went on a campaign about Pope Benedict being culpable for the actions of sex offenders in the Church.

At some point someone has to say, “BASTA!” Enough!

Even if we don’t quiet those destructive voices on the Internet and elsewhere, at least we can add something positive into the conversation. I always tell my brothers that if they don’t look at St. Francis, they will never learn to live in the Church. **Francis did not waste time or energy on the insanity in the Church of his day and around the Church. He focused on one simple truth. This truth he preached to his brothers and to the laity. That truth is that we are sinners.

Our energy is better spent doing penance for our sins. All the whining, complaining, finger pointing and criticizing in the world will never get us into heaven. Actually, it obstructs our journey. At some point, if one spends too much time on the negative, the evil spirits can use that to lead us down the path of anger, resentment, defamation of character, quarrels, and many other things that make so much noise in our heads and souls, that it becomes impossible to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.**

:crying::crying::crying:



If only I had a printer, I’d print this out and frame it, and I would have it made into holy card size, have copies laminated, and keep them in various missals, prayers books and elsewhere.

 

[Dee_S]

Our energy is better spent doing penance for our sins. All the whining, complaining, finger pointing and criticizing in the world will never get us into heaven. Actually, it obstructs our journey. At some point, if one spends too much time on the negative, the evil spirits can use that to lead us down the path of anger, resentment, defamation of character, quarrels, and many other things that make so much noise in our heads and souls, that it becomes impossible to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.

(my bold)
:tiphat:

 

[Dee_S]

:crying::crying::crying:



If only I had a printer, I’d print this out and frame it, and I would have it made into holy card size, have copies laminated, and keep them in various missals, prayers books and elsewhere.

:thumbsup:me too…

 

[Dee_S]

thanks for this and the link. I had come across a video clip of it, which made a deep impression on me…these words of Pope Francis
"My wish is that all of us, after these days of grace, will have the courage, yes, the courage, to walk in the presence of the Lord, with the Lord’s Cross;"
have stuck, and are making we wonder (along with his open display of personal humility)if there is something he knows that we don’tthat perhaps the time has come to turn back the tide of evil - which will require all of us to have the courage to carry the crosses that will come with it?

Thanks for your answer LogisticsBranch… I loved this part…

*"When he got into the helicopter to fly off I took out a bottle of MR BUBBLES and began to furiously blow them in the air from that high hill I stood on. I’m a little over 5 feet tall and petite but thought he might hope to meet me there. His helicopter hoovered over me for several minutes. I cried and kept blowing those bubbles into the air, thinking to myself he must be smiling at me or giggling.! One of the happiest days of my life.
http://us.cdn1.123rf.com/168nwm/len...374619-blowing-bubbles-with-clipping-path.jpg
There was a very holy priest from long ago that told me, “Look for the extraordinary in the ordinary.” *

 

[Justin_Swanton]

I’m finding this a very interesting thread.

Has anyone picked up on the fact that the real target of the media buzz around Pope Francis is not the Pope himself but Pope Emeritus Benedict? Everything new about Pope Francis is being contrasted with what Pope Benedict did: the simplicity of Francis versus the pomp of Benedict, the outgoing and human personality of Francis versus the intellectual distance of Benedict (‘pomp’ and ‘intellectual distance’ as media insinuations). I don’t like it much.

Francis’s liturgical simplicity does not invalidate Benedict’s liturgical richness, which does not invalidate Francis’s simplicity. The Cure of Ars made a point of getting hold of the finest ornaments and vestments he could find for his parish church. He wanted their richness and beauty to help raise his parishioners to the grandeur of the supernatural realities. He had a contemporary, St. Peter Eymard I think (could be wrong), who insisted on very simple ornamentation in his chapel. St John Vianney nonetheless told visitors from that town: “You already have a saint over there” (I’m paraphrasing from memory. This is all from a life of that saint I read decades ago).

Two seemingly contradictory approaches actually work, in different ways, just not in the same person. Benedict tried to get Francis to take the seat of honour in Castelgandolfo’s chapel (good); Francis refused it (also good). Two quite extraordinary men.

 

[Justin_Swanton]

I find that people confuse himility with humiliation.

Humiliation is loss of dignity. Humility is knowing your correct place in the order of creation, and is very liberating, very calming. Knowing your correct place in creation, or in school or business allows one to focus on what they are supposed to do and not worry about what God has not put in front of them.

-Tim-

This has already been commented on quite a bit on this thread. I don’t to swell your head or anything (that would really be counterproductive!), but precisely this reflection came home to me quite recently.

I’ll make a confession. I have a very humdrum job as a manager of a small printing company, having been a struggling freelance graphic designer before that. I wrote and illustrated a book of comic verse and launched it with high hopes. It was at least as good as Roald Dahl and sure to wow 'em. Nothing happened. After that I wrote the novel in my signature which I felt was really quite good and sure to be a success - say hello to a modest amount of fame and decent royalties. Nothing happened again. The lesson finally sank home - there’s nothing wrong with having a really small place in human affairs. Accepting and liking to be what you are, where you are is, exactly as you describe it, very liberating and very calming.

Strictly speaking this post is off topic but it’s good to see someone else come to the same conclusion I did. Just thought I’d mention it.

And now back to an interesting Pope.

 

[JReducation]

I’m finding this a very interesting thread.

Has anyone picked up on the fact that the real target of the media buzz around Pope Francis is not the Pope himself but Pope Emeritus Benedict? Everything new about Pope Francis is being contrasted with what Pope Benedict did: the simplicity of Francis versus the pomp of Benedict, the outgoing and human personality of Francis versus the intellectual distance of Benedict (‘pomp’ and ‘intellectual distance’ as media insinuations). I don’t like it much.

Francis’s liturgical simplicity does not invalidate Benedict’s liturgical richness, which does not invalidate Francis’s simplicity. The Cure of Ars made a point of getting hold of the finest ornaments and vestments he could find for his parish church. He wanted their richness and beauty to help raise his parishioners to the grandeur of the supernatural realities. He had a contemporary, St. Peter Eymard I think (could be wrong), who insisted on very simple ornamentation in his chapel. St John Vianney nonetheless told visitors from that town: “You already have a saint over there” (I’m paraphrasing from memory. This is all from a life of that saint I read decades ago).

Two seemingly contradictory approaches actually work, in different ways, just not in the same person. Benedict tried to get Francis to take the seat of honour in Castelgandolfo’s chapel (good); Francis refused it (also good). Two quite extraordinary men.

Unfortunately, what the media is finding interesting about Pope Francis is not what makes him truly interesting.

The media does not understand that the papacy is organic. It’s certainly not the papacy of Peter’s time. As time passes, each pope brings his gifts to the office. When he leaves the office, the gifts remain. When we look at the papacy over the centuries, we see it grow and change. Just like a plant, it remains grounded in the same roots. Like the plant, it changes and yet remains the same plant.

What makes Pope Francis an interesting pope is precisely that he contributes another lay of gifts to the Petrine Ministry. He’s not better than this pope or worse than that one. God gave Benedict the gift of teaching. He’s a great teacher. He’ll go down in Church history as one of the most intelligent theologians in Christianity. There is certainly nothing to complain about here. On the contrary, we had some fascinating lessons taught by Pope Benedict.

Pope Francis is also a scholar. In fact, he and Pope Benedict studied the same branch of theology, Augustine and Bonaventure. Pope Francis, using the Spiritual Exercises discerns how to execute what Augustine and Bonaventure had to say about the Christian life.

Two different gifts, equally necessary.

The tomb was empty - Rejoice Alleluia!

 

[Barb_Brody]

Jesus is risen today Alleluia!

Let us all join in with our wondeful Pope Francis, as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Bring Jesus to all the warring poeple of the world. Just like Pope John Paul II was big in the fall of the iron curtin. Pope Francis with His hunbleness may be the one to bring peace to the middle east. Let us join in Jesus as Brothers and Sisters to bring this about in the world.

The impossible is possible in Jusus our Lord! God bless all of us!

 

[McCall1981]

As someone who has been a bit anxious about Pope Francis, I have to say that his homilies so far are fantastic. On the surface, they are very simple, but they have a tremendous amount of spiritual depth in very few words.

In reading them, I have felt that his simple style adds a kind of urgency to what he’s saying. For instance, in his first homily to the Cardinals he mentions the devil in a way that is very stark. It made me, not just understand what he was saying, but feel the reality of what he was saying. The homilies really reach out to your soul, not just your mind.

For those who might not be aware, the Vatican website has all of his homilies (and letters, addresses, etc) here:

vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/index.htm

So what are your opinions about our new Pope’s homilies so far?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

As someone who has been a bit anxious about Pope Francis, I have to say that his homilies so far are fantastic. On the surface, they are very simple, but they have a tremendous amount of spiritual depth in very few words.

In reading them, I have felt that his simple style adds a kind of urgency to what he’s saying. For instance, in his first homily to the Cardinals he mentions the devil in a way that is very stark. It made me, not just understand what he was saying, but feel the reality of what he was saying. The homilies really reach out to your soul, not just your mind.

For those who might not be aware, the Vatican website has all of his homilies (and letters, addresses, etc) here:

vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/index.htm

So what are your opinions about our new Pope’s homilies so far?

I have exactly the same reaction.

Thanks so very much for the link!

 

[Francoist]

I’m a Pope Benedict guy and I truly and firmly believe that our relationship with Jesus Christ is centered on the liturgy, so I am very much not a liturgical minimalist. That being said, if I ever worry about the Pope I just have to go to his homilies. Though compact, they are wonderful! I enjoy how cogent and direct they are.

I think they disclose holiness and dedication to Jesus Christ.

 

[Marie5890]

I agree with the both of you.
His homilies have been so fruitful in my life. I have felt myself re-examining my conscience in light of his words, his wisdom, his actions.

This holy man walks with Our Lord. That is plain to see, at least for me.

 

[simple_soul]

As someone who has been a bit anxious about Pope Francis, I have to say that his homilies so far are fantastic. On the surface, they are very simple, but they have a tremendous amount of spiritual depth in very few words.

In reading them, I have felt that his simple style adds a kind of urgency to what he’s saying. For instance, in his first homily to the Cardinals he mentions the devil in a way that is very stark. It made me, not just understand what he was saying, but feel the reality of what he was saying. The homilies really reach out to your soul, not just your mind.

For those who might not be aware, the Vatican website has all of his homilies (and letters, addresses, etc) here:

vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/index.htm

So what are your opinions about our new Pope’s homilies so far?

My “opinion” is that he seems to be preparing us for something. Something big. He seems to keep driving home the point that people can change and he keeps reminding us of how much God loves us and how great His mercy is… And not to loose hope or our joy. I wonder why he seemingly keeps stressing those points…it is almost like he is sending out invitations and at the same trying to ensure that when the invitation is accepted that they find Jesus Christ when they come in and not some kind of judge and jury ready to condemn them. Just Jesus and His healing and transforming power through the Sacraments and us. I so hope and pray we are ready and that they will find the Holy people of God that Pope Francis seems to be telling and showing us that we should be. I hope that came put right and makes some sense.