Pope: Anti-Semitism Part of Wave of `Depraved Hatred'

[abucs]

Look Gracepoole I read your linked article.

It is extremely weak in giving evidence of right wing government anti Semitism.

There “might” be certain Nationalistic governments in former communist Eastern Europe who are reactionary anti-Semitic but your article doesn’t give any credible details of that. Certainly the evidence of right wing government anti Semitism still needs to be made beyond the emotional Left prejudice that “they create an atmosphere …… blah blah”.

The link to national left wing government anti Semtitism in western democracies has been made though. That is where our discussion stands at the moment.

 

[gracepoole]

Look Gracepoole I read your linked article.

It is extremely weak in giving evidence of right wing government anti Semitism.

There “might” be certain Nationalistic governments in former communist Eastern Europe who are reactionary anti-Semitic but your article doesn’t give any credible details of that. Certainly the evidence of right wing government anti Semitism still needs to be made beyond the emotional Left prejudice that “they create an atmosphere …… blah blah”.

The link to national left wing government anti Semtitism in western democracies has been made though. That is where our discussion stands at the moment.

Six sources have been ignored. That is where our discussion stands at the moment.

 

[abucs]

what are you talking about?

ok you have added more links. wait? it would be good if you actually spoke about what you think they are saying. Polls of what Hungarians and Polish people think about Jewish people are not examples of right wing government anti-Semitism. Don’t you see the obvious weakness of that to the discussion?

I am assuming your silence on the actual examples given of government officials from the Left holding anti Semitics values means you have accepted this is part of the Left side of politics in Western democracies.

 

[gracepoole]

what are you talking about?

ok you have added more links. wait? it would be good if you actually spoke about what you think they are saying. Polls of Hungarians and Polish people are not examples of right wing government anti-Semitism. Don’t you see the obvious weakness of that to the discussion?

All of the articles I posted are relatively brief. It shouldn’t be taxing to read them. And I shared them because they demonstrate that a) antisemitism is spreading in Hungary and Poland, and b) right-wing governments are encouraging its spread.

 

[gracepoole]

I am assuming your silence on the actual examples given of government officials from the Left holding anti Semitics values means you have accepted this is part of the Left side of politics in Western democracies.

Well, you know what they say about assumptions…

 

[abucs]

Fortunately you don’t need to.

Actually you do to get a clear picture to judge charges of anti Semitism towards the Hungarian government and also to ascertain where they stand on economic issues in order to classify their political affiliations properly.

I certainly don’t trust Left wing media to inform me without their own inherent bias.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

Fortunately you don’t need to.

Actually you do to get a clear picture to judge charges of anti Semitism towards the Hungarian government and also to ascertain where they stand on economic issues in order to classify their political affiliations properly.

I certainly don’t trust Left wing media to inform me without their own inherent bias.

You dismiss six different media sources because they’re all “left wing,” you dismiss a well-respected leading authority on antisemitism… It’s strange to form one’s opinions without (name removed by moderator)ut from facts.

 

[abucs]

Well, you know what they say about assumptions…

Yes assumptions are part of logical reasoning especially when they are mentioned to people you are having discussions with. Hopefully that person then responds to the stated assumptions in a logical and intelligent fashion so the discussion can develop properly and coherently.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

Well, you know what they say about assumptions…

Yes assumptions are part of logical reasoning especially when they are mentioned to people you are having discussions with. Hopefully that person then responds to the stated assumptions in a logical and intelligent fashion so the discussion can develop properly and coherently.

In this case, your assumption is incorrect. I haven’t challenged any of the examples of antisemitism on the left because they don’t deserve to be challenged. I’m simply pointing out that antisemitism transcends political ideology. It’s an equal opportunity form of bigotry.

 

[abucs]

You dismiss six different media sources because they’re all “left wing,” you dismiss a well-respected leading authority on antisemitism… It’s strange to form one’s opinions without (name removed by moderator)ut from facts.

I am not dismissing them I am currently reading them.

I have made the point that in order to properly judge the state of Hungarian government affairs one would really need to speak Hungarian just as to properly judge the state of American government affairs one would really need to speak English.

It is pretty simple. I do not trust Left wing English speaking news outlets to inform me properly on Hungarian government affairs.

This point is independent of your links.

I have not dismissed your links nor included them in my point regarding the desirability of speaking Hungarian to properly understand Hungarian government affairs.

You have incorrectly assumed I have and taken us off on an unnecessary tangent.

 

[abucs]

In this case, your assumption is incorrect. I haven’t challenged any of the examples of antisemitism on the left because they don’t deserve to be challenged. I’m simply pointing out that antisemitism transcends political ideology. It’s an equal opportunity form of bigotry.

Could you please state why the examples do not deserve to be challenged nor point to anti Semitism being a part of the Left today while at the same time you indicate that anti Semitism is found on the Left today. This seems a very incoherent position.

I am reading your articles and will respond to them after we discuss what your position actually is regarding the examples already given and why you feel they don’t need to be challenged.

 

[GKMotley]

And Prof. Lipstadt is a voice worth listening to. Her book on her trial on the case brought by David Irving is very much worth reading.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

In this case, your assumption is incorrect. I haven’t challenged any of the examples of antisemitism on the left because they don’t deserve to be challenged. I’m simply pointing out that antisemitism transcends political ideology. It’s an equal opportunity form of bigotry.

Could you please state why the examples do not deserve to be challenged nor point to anti Semitism being a part of the Left today while at the same time you indicate that anti Semitism is found on the Left today. This seems a very incoherent position.

I am reading your articles and will respond to them after we discuss what your position actually is regarding the examples already given and why you feel they don’t need to be challenged.

I don’t think I understand. You want me to explain why your own argument regarding antisemitism on the left is persuasive? Since that doesn’t make sense, it seems this is now a purity test – and I’ll politely decline to participate in one of those.

I’m not sure why you view what I’ve proposed as somehow radical. It isn’t. I’ve merely explained that antisemitism comes from all corners and doesn’t discriminate politically – it’s sadly harbored by people on both sides of the aisle. That you can’t accept this very basic premise – which is well supported by respected experts – strikes me as… odd.

 

[gracepoole]

And Prof. Lipstadt is a voice worth listening to. Her book on her trial on the case brought by David Irving is very much worth reading.

Agreed! Eminently readable and extremely educated on the topics she writes about.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

You dismiss six different media sources because they’re all “left wing,” you dismiss a well-respected leading authority on antisemitism… It’s strange to form one’s opinions without (name removed by moderator)ut from facts.

I am not dismissing them I am currently reading them.

I have made the point that in order to properly judge the state of Hungarian government affairs one would really need to speak Hungarian just as to properly judge the state of American government affairs one would really need to speak English.

It is pretty simple. I do not trust Left wing English speaking news outlets to inform me properly on Hungarian government affairs.

Is the International Holocaust Remembrance Authority a “left wing English speaking news outlet” to you? 'Cause it’s been pretty clear on the kind of antisemitism that’s being championed by the right wing faction in Hungary.

 

[Victoria33]

I haven’t followed this thread closely but some say Marxism often breeds anti-semitism. He has been in the news a lot, Jeremy Corbyn, one of Labour’s top politicians and he certainly has been involved in incidences that are called anti-semitic. Algemeiner, a Jewish news source blasted AOC for even praising Corbyn.

New Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Takes Heat for Corbyn Praise - Algemeiner.com

Freshman Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was criticized on Monday after she praised UK Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn, who is viewed by many Jews as an antisemite. Ocasio-Cortez, a Bronx native, tweeted after a phone conversation with Corbyn, “It was an honor to share such a lovely and...

www.algemeiner.com

 

[GKMotley]

A follow up is the book written by the lead expert on Irving’s writings on the defense team: Richard Evans, based on the material he submitted at the trial: LYING ABOUT HITLER.

The problem is found in a wide variety of places, in a wide variety of forms, and has been so found for many years. People are like that, on many subjects.

 

[Victoria33]

Voting to allow BDS might not mean one is anti-Semitic but I thought I’d add that in. I’m certainly not for it.

 

[abucs]

I don’t think I understand. You want me to explain why your own argument regarding antisemitism on the left is persuasive?

ummm no, please re-read.

I stated my assumption that because you had not commented on the examples of Left wing government officials being anti Semitic that you probably accepted those examples. In a quite catty response you told me that my assumption was wrong and yet those examples didn’t need to be challenged. My quite clear question to you was to ask you why my assumption is wrong and why you feel those examples don’t ‘deserve’ to be challenged.

I’m not sure why you view what I’ve proposed as somehow radical. It isn’t. I’ve merely explained that antisemitism comes from all corners and doesn’t discriminate politically – it’s sadly harbored by people on both sides of the aisle. That you can’t accept this very basic premise – which is well supported by respected experts – strikes me as… odd.

ummm no.

I at no stage called you radical and I at no stage said that anti Semitism cannot be found on the right side of politics or that I couldn’t accept that. I ask you quite respectfully to think about why you are stating and believing things that have no rational connection to the discussion. I honestly think it is a consequence of Left wing thought to want to demonise the other and therefore the mind imagines some transgression that is not present.

What I did say was that anti Semitism is a part today’s political Left and it is at the highest levels of national politics and I gave examples of that. I said that I did not see such a comparable phenomenon on the right side of government. I expressly mentioned government.

You giving polls of what Hungarians think of Jews is not an example of government anti Semitism on the right. Nor is discussions of why the Hungarian Prime minister has not made comment about the front cover of a particular magazine some feel to be anti Semitic. Nor is imaginings that Trump is creating an atmosphere of anti-Semitism. Nor is the reported increases in attacks on Jews in Europe an example of government anti Semitism on the right side of politics.

Regarding your veiled and quite ridiculous accusation of whether I think the International Holocaust Remembrance Authority is a “left wing English speaking news outlet” or not. Quite clearly this is to obscure discussion. At no stage did I make comment about this particular group. I suspect that there are Holocaust Remembrance Associations around the world steeped in grievance politics of the Left which is a shame but will eventually right itself. I make no comment on this particular group you have mentioned nor claim they are an English speaking news outlet.

Again that is your imaginings going off in unnecessary tangents to obscure discussion.

It is quite clear that these attacks and charges on me without rational connection to the discussion are trying to obscure the fact that you cannot explain why my stated assumptions are incorrect and are undeserving of challenge.

 

[gracepoole]

…?

I’d say it’s probably best if we end our conversation here. God bless.