Pope "ashamed, outraged" by Irish sexual abuse - Child abuse crisis to spark Irish Church shake-up

[lemonbeam]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict expressed “outrage, betrayal and shame” on Friday at the sexual abuse of children by priests in Ireland, which Church leaders said would lead to a shake-up of the Irish Roman Catholic Church.

Church sources expected some bishops to resign in the wake of a government report that said Church leaders in overwhelmingly Catholic Ireland had covered up widespread abuse of children by priests for 30 years.

“I think that we are looking at a very significant reorganization of the Church in Ireland,” Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said after he and other Irish Church leaders held an emergency meeting with the Pope.

The Vatican said the pope would write to the Irish people about the crisis and a plan for action – the first time a pope will devote a document solely to the clergy’s abuse of children.

“The Holy Father shares the outrage, betrayal and shame felt by so many of the faithful in Ireland, and he is united with them in prayer at this difficult time in the life of the Church,” a Vatican statement said.

Read more: reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5BA1LJ20091211

 

[kimmielittle]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict expressed “outrage, betrayal and shame” on Friday at the sexual abuse of children by priests in Ireland, which Church leaders said would lead to a shake-up of the Irish Roman Catholic Church.

Church sources expected some bishops to resign in the wake of a government report that said Church leaders in overwhelmingly Catholic Ireland had covered up widespread abuse of children by priests for 30 years.

“I think that we are looking at a very significant reorganization of the Church in Ireland,” Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said after he and other Irish Church leaders held an emergency meeting with the Pope.

The Vatican said the pope would write to the Irish people about the crisis and a plan for action – the first time a pope will devote a document solely to the clergy’s abuse of children.

**“The Holy Father shares the outrage, betrayal and shame felt by so many of the faithful in Ireland, and he is united with them in prayer at this difficult time in the life of the Church,” a Vatican statement said.**emphasis mine

Read more: reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5BA1LJ20091211

Amen

 

[Brickmaker]

A day late and a dollar short.

Why haven’t heads rolled over this? The Irish must be very tolerant.

 

[JReducation]

A day late and a dollar short.

Why haven’t heads rolled over this? The Irish must be very tolerant.

I’m not sure why you say this. The Holy Father is just finding out the details along with the rest of us. He is about to write a Motu Proprio on the issue, which has never been done before in Church history. It shows how seriously he takes this breach of morals and trust.

He now has to face some important issues.

1. Who to put in place to fix this mess.
2. A plan of restitution and consequences.
3. Where to put the guilty bishops, because he can’t expell them from the Church. You can’t expel a bishop. You have to find a place for him where he can’t do this kind of harm again, assign him to a desk job or some other assignment where he will have no epsicopal duties. If you excommunicate or laicize a bishop you open the door for a schism, since you cannot take away a bishop’s apostolic succession, only his faculties.

I don’t wish this job on my worse enemy, especially the pope. He’s a good man.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Brickmaker]

I’m not sure why you say this. The Holy Father is just finding out the details along with the rest of us. He is about to write a Motu Proprio on the issue, which has never been done before in Church history. It shows how seriously he takes this breach of morals and trust. I wasn’t born yesterday. The Pope doesn’t know what’s going on and has been going on in his church? Give me a break. We’ve had a whole litany of abuse reports out of Ireland over the last few years yet the Pope is only expressing **outrage, betrayal and shame **now? Oh, and writing a letter. Yeah, that will work.

He now has to face some important issues.

1. Who to put in place to fix this mess. You really think anyone can ‘fix’ this? ‘Fixing’ things is what got the Irish church into the trouble it’s in now. You think the Irish will wear a ‘fixer’?
2. A plan of restitution and consequences. Like what? letting the Irish government throw all the Irish bishops in jail for covering up all this stuff? Now that I’d like to see.
3. Where to put the guilty bishops, because he can’t expell them from the Church. You can’t expel a bishop. You have to find a place for him where he can’t do this kind of harm again, assign him to a desk job or some other assignment where he will have no epsicopal duties. If you excommunicate or laicize a bishop you open the door for a schism, since you cannot take away a bishop’s apostolic succession, only his faculties. **From what I read, none of the ‘guilty’ bishops have the testicular fortitude to resign of their own accord. But maybe the Pope can find them all nice cushy jobs like Bernard Law’s. **

I don’t wish this job on my worse enemy, especially the pope. He’s a good man.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[onthenarrowpath]

The Vatican said the pope would write to the Irish people about the crisis and a plan for action – the first time a pope will devote a document solely to the clergy’s abuse of children.

Apparently all those children abused at the hands of American priests - including my best friend from high school - wasn’t enough to move him to issue such a document.

 

[feargalmac]

A day late and a dollar short.

Why haven’t heads rolled over this? The Irish must be very tolerant.

We are tolerant!

A commission was set up to find out what was going on and it wasn’t just the Church that was at fault. Senior police were also found to have been involved in the cover up, but you wont hear much about that. The facts are being looked at now by our police and quite a number of the priests involved have already been through the court system here.

 

[rep140]

Apparently all those children abused at the hands of American priests - including my best friend from high school - wasn’t enough to move him to issue such a document.

I applaud B16. He wasn’t the man on the job when the crisis hit in the U.S. When B16 came to the U.S. he could not have been more specific. I had reservations when B16
(why does this sound like I’m calling Bingo) was elected but I am so glad that he was elected pope.
My only regret is that he is not younger.

 

[JReducation]

Apparently all those children abused at the hands of American priests - including my best friend from high school - wasn’t enough to move him to issue such a document.

There is actually a reason for that. Popes normally do not get involved in the local problems of the Churches. It is a violation of the principal of subsidiarity. However, we have to remember that Ireland is only one eclesial province, unlike the USA where we have 10. You could always get bishops from one province and move them to another and charge them to make things happen, such as was the case when Cardinal O’Malley was sent to Boston from West Palm Beach. I’ve never been to Ireland, but I can imagine that the pool of hierarchs is not that big. There is not much choice but for the Apostolic See to become directly involved.

That being said, the Apostolic See did meet with a delegation of victims when the Holy Father came to the USA. Even though the Holy Father did not put anything in public writing, he did address the issue in public and he did meet privately with victims. That was well received by many people. We have to give credit to Cardinal O’Malley and the Nuncio for setting it up in a very discrete way.

We have to remember, that we can’t punish the pope or anyone else for the sins of others. He does the best he can with what he has. A day only has 24 hours. How many issues does the papacy have on its plate?

I’m happy that he met with the Irish leaders and that he is upset with them. They deserve to be blasted by the pope. Hopefully, those who are guilty in any way will end up in some office in the Vatican where they don’t have any power. People often mention Cardinal Law. What people don’t realize is that the Cardinal has no episcopal power. He is the adminstrator of a cathedral and works in one of the Vatican departments. That’s not exactly the kind of job that most Cardinals want to do . The man can only celebrate the sacraments when the Vicar of Rome gives him permission. Since the diocese belongs to the Holy Father, he Cardinal is subject to the diocesan administrator. This is a big step down from being the Archbishop and the Patriarch of the nations third most important see.

You don’t want to excommunicate or laicize bishops or you may have a schism. You have to keep them in the Church under the authority of someone.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rep140]

People often mention Cardinal Law. What people don’t realize is that the Cardinal has no episcopal power

I recently read that Archbishop Burke was named to the committee that advises The Vatican regarding selection of American bishops. Cardinal Law also sits on the committee. This would appear to have significant influence on the American church.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

I’m happy that he met with the Irish leaders and that he is upset with them. They deserve to be blasted by the pope. Hopefully, those who are guilty in any way will end up in some office in the Vatican where they don’t have any power.

Brother, the Pope only met with Cardinal Brady and Archbishop Martin - the two Irish leaders he has least cause to be upset with - especially Archbishop Martin who has been spectacularly courageous in seeing this inquiry through and co-operating with the Commission.

Of the five bishops named in the Commission’s report, only one - the Bishop of Limerick - is likely to resign. The others have indicated that they will not do so, although some have resigned their patronage of charitable organisations and one has been asked by Dr Martin not to confirm any children next year.

I understand that the Pope writing a pastoral letter to Irish Catholics on the issue of sex abuse is - as Dr Martin put it - “a rare and significant gesture from the Holy See”, but if some of the victims’ responses are anything to go by, I cannot see how it will make much difference in the long run to those most affected by the Irish church’s failures.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

PS. I’ve no idea how that completely inappropriate ended up in the title line in my response above. I didn’t put it there :takethat:

 

[rlg94086]

PS. I’ve no idea how that completely inappropriate ended up in the title line in my response. I didn’t put it there :takethat:

Lol…I was wondering why you put that there …probably just clicked on the icon in the “Post Icons” section by accident.

I’m glad the Pope is speaking out and taking action, and I’m disappointed by the “too little too late” response of some. I understand the anger and hurt of the victims, but people should at least give the Pope a chance to complete his Motu Proprio and “action plan” before discounting his initial statement of “shame” and “outrage.”

It seems like some people would just prefer for the Pope to remain silent, so they can continue to bash the Church.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Lol…I was wondering why you put that there …probably just clicked on the icon in the “Post Icons” section by accident.

Yes, :doh2:

I’m glad the Pope is speaking out and taking action, and I’m disappointed by the “too little too late” response of some. I understand the anger and hurt of the victims, but people should at least give the Pope a chance to complete his Motu Proprio and “action plan” before discounting his initial statement of “shame” and “outrage.”

I agree to some extent. But I think we must also factor in what I would call a national pessimism in Ireland at present, not just about the Church but about ourselves as a people and a nation. With the Church now totally discredited, and a total disillusionment with the organs of state, it seems that we have no institution left with even a vestige of moral authority. Add to that mix a world recession which has hit our very globalised economy particularly hard and has left people feeling powerless, even hopeless. Even the weather has been terrible (that’s saying a lot by Irish standards ) with flooding over large parts of the country. You get the picture.

It seems like some people would just prefer for the Pope to remain silent, so they can continue to bash the Church.

I don’t think that’s the case with everyone. Undoubtedly there are some who will bash the Church whatever the Pope says or does. On the other hand, I think most people feel that the Vatican has been slow, too slow, to respond and act on the issue of clerical abuse just about everywhere in the world that it has been brought to light. I was at a wake and funeral in a rural part of the country for the last few days and that was the impression I got from talking with both people and clergy. They are bewildered and feel betrayed and let down by their Church, local and universal. They have lost confidence in their hierarchy. Not one thought the Pope’s pastoral letter would do any good. Most thought it was too little too late.

I don’t know how any of that negativity (many would say realism) can be addressed - it is so pervasive - or even if a Motu Proprio is the way to address it. What I do know is that Catholicism in Ireland has reached tipping point - if it has not already gone beyond it. What it will look like in the future is anyone’s guess but I’m fairly certain it will not look anything like it did in the past.

 

[Pondero]

I think that Ireland is following the same road to secularism that the Province of Quebec followed in the 1960’s. Churches are closed and only a small percentage of Catholics in Quebec go to Mass. The trend to secularism in Ireland didn’t begin with the Ryan Commision about the extent of sexual abuse by the clergy, or by the later Murphy Report on the “Cover-Up” by the bishops and the police. No, it began a long time ago when the Irish started to make economic gains and joined the EU. I think that was the start of it.
Also, too much authority ( as in Quebec) was given to the Church to run things without oversight by the State. The state has so far appeared to be teflon proof or squeaky clean - I wonder?

 

[JReducation]

Brother, the Pope only met with Cardinal Brady and Archbishop Martin - the two Irish leaders he has least cause to be upset with - especially Archbishop Martin who has been spectacularly courageous in seeing this inquiry through and co-operating with the Commission.

Of the five bishops named in the Commission’s report, only one - the Bishop of Limerick - is likely to resign. The others have indicated that they will not do so, although some have resigned their patronage of charitable organisations and one has been asked by Dr Martin not to confirm any children next year.

I understand that the Pope writing a pastoral letter to Irish Catholics on the issue of sex abuse is - as Dr Martin put it - “a rare and significant gesture from the Holy See”, but if some of the victims’ responses are anything to go by, I cannot see how it will make much difference in the long run to those most affected by the Irish church’s failures.

I understand with whom he met. But here’s my logic. There will be resginations, not because people want to resign, but because they will be asked for them. If history repeats itself, as it did with Cardinal O’Malley of Boston, these men have been sent back with a few homework assignments. This happened wiht O’Malley. No one was told what those assignments were, but we have seen their fruits over the years. I believe that this will be the same for Ireland.

As to the Motu Proprio, the idea of a Motu Proprio is to spread grace, not to solve problems. We have to leave the problem solving to the different departments in the Church. But we do need grace and we should not underestimate its power.

We are a holy people and we do believe in the power of grace over sin.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

People often mention Cardinal Law. What people don’t realize is that the Cardinal has no episcopal power

I recently read that Archbishop Burke was named to the committee that advises The Vatican regarding selection of American bishops. Cardinal Law also sits on the committee. This would appear to have significant influence on the American church.

Cardinal Law has no episcopal power. He has a vote on a committee. He cannot be denied that, unless he is excommunicated. Such is not his state.

We have to remember that the Church has rules that have been handed down to us by the apostles. We cannot take an apostle an excommunicate him, when he has not committed an excommunicable offense. The only reasons for which a bishop may be exocmmunicated are:

1. Disobeys the pope
2. Becomes a heretic
3. Leaves the priesthood without permission
4. Leaves the Church
5. Violates the sacraments
6. Participates in an abortion
7. Breaks the seal of confession

Any other sin is not excommunicable, because it was not identified as one by the Apostles or the Church Fathers.

As faithful Catholics, we must yield to the rights of all bishops. Their rights are not determined by their virtue, but by revelation. Our soul is bound to revelation.

That being said, the fact that Cardinal Law votes on a committee does not give him authority over any dicoese.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

I am probably going to take a beating for this but here goes…When S Africa I think it was emerged from all of the horrors that went on during the war there, they finally came to the conclusion without forgiveness there would be no moving away from the past…it was too ugly

I have heard people say when a loved one was murdered they only way they finally got peace was to forgive those that did the terrible act…I am not saying you have to like them or to be their best friend, but forgiving someone who has wronged you is a gift you give to yourself…It lets you move away and not spend your life immersed in anger and bitterness

I am not saying the guilty shouldn’t be brought to justice nor that changes must not be made…It must and should be done…But after it is the only peace people will have is to let it go

I have seen this happen here in the states, and we are the better for it…there is no way to erase the past, but it is better not to get stuck there

 

[JReducation]

The reality of pain cannot be denied. It would be unjust to deny men the right to feel pain. But I’d like to share my experience with pain. I hope that it can help someone.

Long before I became a Franciscan, I was married and had three children. One afternoon, my wife, father and three children were in a car. They were struck by a drunken driver. My father and wife died at the scene of the accident. My seven-year old son was on life support and I had to make the decision to pull the plug. My surviving children were nine and four. I had to raise them alone. I remember the fear I experienced that night. I did not know how I would make it. But the next day I realized that I would make it. While they were preparing my loved ones to be handed over to the funeral home, I went to visit the man who drove the offending car. He had been hurt. I wanted to make sure that he was alright. He too was very hurt.

Not only was he physically injured, but he was broken. I remember walking into his room. No one knew who I was. I introduced myself by name, but did not tell anyone about my connection to accident.

Two days later we had the tripple funeral. I went back to the hospital and asked the man’s wife if he liked flowers. She said that he didn’t but she did. I gave her a bouquet from my son’s grave. She finally asked me, who I was. I told her. She almost fell.

Later, when her husband was better, I had an chance to talk with him. He apologized. He cried. I could tell that he was broken. I remember exactly what St. Francis told me to tell him. “You have a moral duty to heal from your disease, so that no other family has to experience what you and I are experiencing.” From that day on, we have been in touch. I pray for him, write him, send him Christmas gifts and even invited him to my children’s college graduations and my profession of vows.

You see, anger is a very real emotion. It cannot be denied. But it does not heal. St. Francis taught us that true healing comes when you stay near the sinner and be his brother.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Yellow_Belle]

I am probably going to take a beating for this but here goes…When S Africa I think it was emerged from all of the horrors that went on during the war there, they finally came to the conclusion without forgiveness there would be no moving away from the past…it was too ugly

Am not going to be the one doing the beating But in South Africa it wasn’t forgiveness that moved them away from the past, it was facing the truth of what happened under apartheid. Yes, there was a process through which amnesty could be granted to those who committed abuses, as long as the crimes were politically motivated and there was full disclosure by the person seeking amnesty. Interestingly though, out of 7112 petitioners for amnesty only 849 were successful.

I understand what you are saying about the necessity for forgiveness - and here I’m thinking of Gordon Wilson, father of Marie Wilson, one of 12 victims of the Enniskillen Remembrance Day bombing, who said at the time: “I bear no ill will. I bear no grudge. Dirty sort of talk is not going to bring her back to life. She was a great wee lassie. She loved her profession. She was a pet. She’s dead. She’s in heaven and we shall meet again. I will pray for these men tonight and every night” - but I think it needs to come, as it did with Gordon Wilson, voluntarily and from the heart. I don’t think we have any real right to be prescriptive about forgiveness with those who have been so grievously hurt. And there is always the danger that in suggesting this course of action we place an additional burden on those already struggling with a very heavy cross.