It would be very strange for any State to have the ability to overturn an amendment to the Constitution. The purpose of a court is to uphold Constitutions.It all depends on the power that the State Constitution gives to the Court.
JR
In some states the Supreme Court has more power than in others.It would be very strange for any State to have the ability to overturn an amendment to the Constitution. The purpose of a court is to uphold Constitutions.
I think that joshuag is incorrect. This is from the SF Chronicle today:In some states the Supreme Court has more power than in others.
JR
So, I guess there is precedence, but it hasnât been decided yet. None other than Ken Starr is handling the case from the Pro-Prop 8 side. If they overturn this, it could get ugly in California. The will of the people has been overturned a few too many times in that state.
JReducation;4585306:
The Church recognizes that it can lead to moral problems, but per se it is not. The Catholic Church is very clear on this. This is one conflict between Catholicism and fundamentalist Protestantism. They use sola scriptura to bolster their position. The Catholic Church does not. We use scripture and human experience as well. In that regard, our theology is more rational.
Thatâs why the Church protects the rights of the homosexual person and has written several documents on the proper pastoral care of homosexual persons and even has an international ministry for homosexual people where they can worship, pray, support each other, socialize and learn how to live celibate lives. Itâs called Courage Ministry. It began in the USA and is now worldwide and has the approval of the Vatican.
This is the position on homosexual acts.
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that âhomosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.â They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
Here is the position on the homosexual person. Watch the difference.
**2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill Godâs will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lordâs Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **
The language about the person is very protective and does not condemn the attraction as a sin. The word disordered was deliberately chosen to avoid the word sin, but also avoid saying that this is what should happen in every other case or whatever statistics people may want to use.
Hope this helps.
JR
If you live in my state you get used to it. Our Supreme Court has the power to overturn amendments and send them back to be rewritten. Itâs in our State Constitution.
eichenb2;4585332:
Here is the position on the homosexual person. Watch the difference.
**2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill Godâs will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lordâs Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **
The language about the person is very protective and does not condemn the attraction as a sin. The word disordered was deliberately chosen to avoid the word sin, but also avoid saying that this is what should happen in every other case or whatever statistics people may want to use.
I have read that Catechism, several times. My concern is that there are elements, clergy and laity who are, in my opinion, trying to deliberately blurr the line of distinction on this issue. Two Dominican Priests immediately come to mind. I must admit that this is one of the issues that makes it difficult for me to commit to the Church.
Hope this helps.
JR
In fairness to the article in the original post, it was not about the Popeâs speech. It was about the reaction of the gay community. I donât think their reaction changes if you read the Popeâs actual words. They take his clear teaching as an attack on their desire to make homosexual relationships equivalent to heterosexual relationships.If you live in my state you get used to it. Our Supreme Court has the power to overturn amendments and send them back to be rewritten. Itâs in our State Constitution.
In any case, this thread is off track. The topic was the Popeâs statement, which turns out was not what the press said at all. It was a much more profound statement about nature, including human nature and the nature of human sexuality.
I was surprised when I first heard the news, because Benedict XVI is not a moron. He is not going to attack the gay population. He will come out in defence of morality and the sacredness of marriage, but not an attack upon any population.
He has never done this in his tenure in the Vatican either as a Cardinal or now as a Pope. He could have done this on the issue of abortion or against Muslims on the issue of violence or against Americans on the invasion of Iraq, which he condemned when he was Cardinal Ratzinger. But he has never attacked a group.
I was looking for the text and am glad I found it. I feel badly that many will not see the text and unnecessary conflict will break out over this, thanks to the media.
JR
JReducation;4585386:
The Church protects their rights as human beings first. In many societies people are imprisoned for having homosexual tendencies or engaging in homosexual activity in their own homes. The Church opposes such treatment, because it is inconsistent with the treatment that is given to others who commit sins against chastity. Also because left unchallenged, this can become a massive form of genocide. Hitler killed more than one million gay people. The Church is not going to be silent, if she can do something before things get out of hand.
There are countries and jurisdictions where it is still legal to discriminate in jobs against homosexual people. The Church does not accept this. She says that all unjust treatment of homosexual people must be avoided.
Homosexuals are often discriminated against in parishes. The Church says that they have a right to be there, to receive the sacraments and to receive spiritual support from the parish community.
Families have been known to oust children for being gay. The Church has made statements that they are always our children, regardless. Both sides have an obligation to observe the moral code of conduct.
In some communities the fear of AIDS led some hospitals and medical facilities to turn down gay patients. The Church came out against this. That was the reason why Mother Teresa was ordered to found homes for those dying with AIDS in Rome, New York, Los Angeles and Washington DC. The Church said this was an injustice on the part of the medical community. The Church only saw Christ and he was sick and dying.
Gay bashing and physical torture and abuse is not uncommon around the world. Itâs practiced by Catholics and non Catholics. This is unacceptable to Catholics.
Finally, gay Catholics have a right to unite themselves to Jesus in the Eucharist and bring their struggle to live a chaste life just as we all come with our own sinfulness to the altar.
These are just some of the issues of justice that the Church has addressed in the last 20 years. Many of these pastoral letters were written by Ratzinger for John Paul II.
As you can see, there is a difference between homosexual activity and how homosexual people are treated. Both must be addressed from a moral perspective.
Fraternally,
JR
Their reaction may still be one of disagreement, anger, disappointment or any other negative feeling. But the press adds fuel to the fire by plastering the headline with big bold letters saying that the Pope wants to save the world from homosexuality or condemns homosexuals.
Agreed. At the same time, I hope the Popeâs words influence those Catholics who donât support the Church teaching regarding homosexual marriage. Their equivocation on the issue does not help the âEcology of Man.âTheir reaction may still be one of disagreement, anger, disappointment or any other negative feeling. But the press adds fuel to the fire by plastering the headline with big bold letters saying that the Pope wants to save the world from homosexuality or condemns homosexuals.
The Pope wants to save man from himself. Thatâs what his speech was about and in it he included the enviornment and the need for human ecology to help man preserve the nature of sexuality as it was created.
The radical gay wing is not going to be happy with any statement that defends marriage between man and woman, but the rational wing will say to itself, âThatâs what I would expect a pope to say, even if I disagree.â
When the media stirs up the fire, even the more rational person jumps. Iâm more concerned about the straight right wing anti-gay person than the gay wing. The gay wing will make a lot of noise for a while and move on to something or someone else. The right wing anti-gay person will use the misrepresented statement as justification for meaness and discriination.
That is not what the Church is trying to promote. The pope is trying to promote a Christian human ecology where all men and women are treated with dignity and are guided in a proper way with charity and clarity.
Fraternally,
JR
Christ didnât pretend that sin wasnât evil, as you want the Pope to do.
The Pope never mentioned gay people in his talk. The press extrapolated that inference from the Holy Fatherâs reference to the nature of human sexuality and the need to protect man from his own desire to be omnipotent and act without God and determine his own rules and destiny.
How can one comes home if one does not acknowledge the act is sinful
Did you read what has been said several times on this thread? The Pope never said what they allege he said about homosexuals. He never even mentioned the term homosexual in his talk.
Everyone is a sum of their actions, inactions, emotions and feelings. âHate the sin, love the sinnerâ is completely meaningless in my mind and in the mind of most homosexuals. It means nothing. Actions are what make a person, thus you hate the person, there is no difference. It is essentially âHate the person, but love the personâ,it doesnât make any sense. You can say it until youâre blue in the face, but it doesnât seem logical.
Would you say that Jesus hates you because youâre a sinner or that he doesnât care if you sin?
I wouldnât have any idea what Jesus thinks. Iâve never felt his presence once in my entire life.Would you say that Jesus hates you because youâre a sinner or that he doesnât care if you sin?
JR
Letâs judge from his words and actions them.