Pope Benedict on Jesus and the Essene calendar - clear this up for me will you?

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po18guy said:
Fr. Mitch Pacwa backs this up. Men did not normally carry the water then, as they do not in many parts of the world today. From what little is known of them, the Essenes were predominantly celibate males, who had no women to carry the water. As well, the upper room was reportedly in the Essene section of Jerusalem. I note that, if one looks at the time line, the Essenes and their beliefs appeared on the scene shortly (about 150 years) before the Incarnation, and disappeared not that long after the Ascension and destruction of the Temple. That in itself may be somewhat telling. They had many beliefs which were reflective of the teachings of Christ - although some differed. I note that they held to an unbloody sacrifice, a prophecy of the Holy Eucharist, if one will. Though the scriptures do not specifically mention them, and many details have been lost, their existence is well known via contemporary historical sources.
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But its clear that Jesus, though having known of them, wasn’t one of them, just like he wasn’t one of the other Jewish Sects. Obviously, I guess, seeing that he was the Lord and all, you know what I mean… 🙂
 
Anti-christians and Anti-Catholics distribute this horrible proposition however:

“Essenes were known for wearing white garments and practicing the art of body healing. Some scholars are of the opinion that a man sitting near the empty tomb of Jesus “wearing a white robe” (Mark 16:5), or two men “in dazzling apparel” (Luke 24:4), or “two angels in white” in the spiritualized forth Gospel of John, belonged to this sect. It is also suggested that an unknown man who requested Pilate for the body of Jesus and took it with him could be a healer from this group.”

I.e., They took Jesus’ body.

This is the disgusting info spread on the web…
 
FishyPete said:
Also:

usccb.org/
  • [14:13] A man…carrying a jar of water: perhaps a prearranged signal, for only women ordinarily carried water in jars. The Greek word used here, however, implies simply a person and not necessarily a male.
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Those are the notes from the NAB/RE. Many Catholics do not trust them, as they tend to be inconsistent and have introduced ideas which challenge some of the long-held beliefs of the faith, i.e. Luke essentially made up Mary’s magnificat to suit his own purposes. (see notes @ Luke 1:45>).
 
po18guy said:
Those are the notes from the NAB/RE. Many Catholics do not trust them, as they tend to be inconsistent and have introduced ideas which challenge some of the long-held beliefs of the faith, i.e. Luke essentially made up Mary’s magnificat to suit his own purposes. (see notes @ Luke 1:45>).
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I see. Thanks.
 
What of this “men in white robes” claim. As the Essenes were depicted in white robes?

For me it seems silly, but were angels described this way in the OT or elsewhere?
 
Anybody could wear a white robe, as indeed many Arabs still do, in Israel/Palestine and elsewhere.

As angels do not have or need a human soma, they simply take on the appearance that will fit the human setting.

ICXC NIKA
 
FishyPete said:
But its clear that Jesus, though having known of them, wasn’t one of them, just like he wasn’t one of the other Jewish Sects. Obviously, I guess, seeing that he was the Lord and all, you know what I mean… 🙂
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But, reading the article on the Essenes, it is clear that they may have been preparatory for (or anticipatory of) the Messiah, rather than simply just another quasi-religious political party. Their blend of Judaic practice combined with Gentile influence could be seen as foreshadowing the sending of the Apostles to the Gentiles. The precious ancient manuscripts found in 1947 at Qumran are believed to have been part of an Essene community. Everything happens for a reason.

In a similar vein, look at the timing of the Deuterocanonical books of scripture. They were arguably anticipatory of the Christ, as well. 2 Maccabees, by itself, details the liberation of Judah and Jerusalem via the overthrow of the pagan Seleucid empire; the reintroduction of the banned practice of the Mosaic Law - remembering that Jesus had to be born under the law to fulfill the law. As well it speaks of the resurrection and of eternal life, as well as offering prayer for the dead. All of this a little over 100 years before Christ.

As to those NAB/RE notes, why would John Mark, believed to be writing for Peter, use a Greek word that means “person” when women almost exclusively carried the water jars? This makes no sense. Do they also infer that “follow him” and the other male references in subsequent verses were also gender-neutral? The NAB/RE notes cause more doubt than they provide answers.
 
po18guy said:
But, reading the article on the Essenes, it is clear that they may have been preparatory for (or anticipatory of) the Messiah, rather than simply just another quasi-religious political party. Their blend of Judaic practice combined with Gentile influence could be seen as foreshadowing the sending of the Apostles to the Gentiles. The precious ancient manuscripts found in 1947 at Qumran are believed to have been part of an Essene community. Everything happens for a reason.

In a similar vein, look at the timing of the Deuterocanonical books of scripture. They were arguably anticipatory of the Christ, as well. 2 Maccabees, by itself, details the liberation of Judah and Jerusalem via the overthrow of the pagan Seleucid empire; the reintroduction of the banned practice of the Mosaic Law - remembering that Jesus had to be born under the law to fulfill the law. As well it speaks of the resurrection and of eternal life, as well as offering prayer for the dead. All of this a little over 100 years before Christ.

As to those NAB/RE notes, why would John Mark, believed to be writing for Peter, use a Greek word that means “person” when women almost exclusively carried the water jars? This makes no sense. Do they also infer that “follow him” and the other male references in subsequent verses were also gender-neutral? The NAB/RE notes cause more doubt than they provide answers.
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I see, good info!
 
Were angels depicted as young men in white robes then, at the time of the NT writing and in the OT? I think they were, but I can’t remember…
 
I think I answered my own question with a bit of internet research, looks like most angels were described this way in the bible.

I apologize for all the questions, my OCD gets the better of me more often than not.

In fact without the help of our Lord, I doubt i’d be able to leave my house on most days!
 
For other research it looks like “sons of light” is used most sparingly in the NT, therefore there is no real connection to the Essenes use of “sons of light”.

Am I right in assuming that?
 
FishyPete said:
What of this “men in white robes” claim. As the Essenes were depicted in white robes?

For me it seems silly, but were angels described this way in the OT or elsewhere?
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The Essenes wore white while dining and changed out afterward. Remember from the transfiguration that Jesus’ own appearance and clothes became dazzling white - a sign of God’s glory. Scripture is clear that Joseph of Arimathea claimed the body and, along with Nicodemus, prepared it for burial.

This claim that Essenes claimed the Body and were in the tomb is simply hogwash. Those who claim this bear the burden of proof.
 
po18guy said:
The Essenes wore white while dining and changed out afterward. Remember from the transfiguration that Jesus’ own appearance and clothes became dazzling white - a sign of God’s glory. Scripture is clear that Joseph of Arimathea claimed the body and, along with Nicodemus, prepared it for burial.

This claim that Essenes claimed the Body and were in the tomb is simply hogwash. Those who claim this bear the burden of proof.
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Thank you for the information. Bless you!
 
What of this “Sons of Light” that the Essenes called themselves so often. Its a phrase that’s used two or three times in the gospels and Acts I believe.

Is this just coincidence?
 
FishyPete said:
True, but to be honest, I plan to read them, but with two young children and working 10+ hours a day, has left me precious little time, instead I turn to wonderful people like the people here to help me. Forgive me please if I ask too much!!
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In his book Jesus of Nazareth the Pope makes it clear that all his comments on everything in the book are his own opinion and that anyone is free to disagree with him.
 
thistle said:
In his book Jesus of Nazareth the Pope makes it clear that all his comments on everything in the book are his own opinion and that anyone is free to disagree with him.
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I know, but I trust him.

Anyway, anyone have any info regarding the “Sons of Light” question?
 
GEddie said:
Keep scratching that head! Methinks you have something there!!🙂

FWIW, I never claimed that Our LORD was an Essene. And it would seem that none of His immediate followers were, either, since the Essenes lived by the Dead Sea, seventy miles or several days’ travel from HIS home grounds in the Galilee.

But there is no reason why HE would not have disciples from among them.

ICXC NIKA
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So by “keep scratching”, were you being serious? Or kidding me?

Do you think there is a connection to our Lord because of this “Sons of Light” thing?

I’m so confused…
 
Perhaps Pope Benedict is right. But, the key may be understanding the Temple worship ritual. Anyone that prepares a meal knows you prep the food, then cook it. In the Temple ritual they would kill and prep the animal, then roast the animal for sacrifice. SO it might depend on whether it is the killing of the animal, or the later roasting of the animal; that relates to the time of Jesus death or Passover celebration.
 
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