Pope Benedict Urges Government Subsidy of Faith-Based Schools

[goofyjim]

Not really. I don’t think anyone is advocating a pay as you go system. First, when one considers the average cost per student, special needs students must also being included. Many of these are very expensive to educate. Also, many of the poorer people pay very little in taxes, nor can they afford to pay more. Yet their children’s education is just as important as mine. Argueably, they should have the same access to non-secularized eduacation as anyone. Our current system denies parents that choice and funnels all kids into the same mill. Choice of eduacation does not lie with parents, but with the society. This is the injustice that the Pope is addressing. It is not a financial issue, because private schools can match or beat public schools in stretching a dollar. It is a control issue.

Imagine if our country nationalized health care to the point that everyone paid thousands a year into it. Then when you needed treatment, you had zero choice of physician, doctor or even treatment. This is our current education system.

Some prefer the secularized education. If you want to make the sacrifice to send your children to a private school but continue to pay the school tax like everyone else.

 

[vern_humphrey]

The Catholic school I attend when I was a youth was in a parish that gentrified and came to the point it did not have enough students in the Parish to keep the school open. So they started reaching out to the poor neighborhoods ajoining the parish and giving deeply discounted tuition and scholarships to both Catholic and non-Catholic students. To me that is an example of what the mission the Church should be.

And that is exactly what Catholic schools should be. We should have more Protestant children than Catholics in our schools – and most of our schools should be in the poorest districts, the ones with the most problems.

We need to get off our Catholic behinds and revitalize our Catholic schools. We need to reach out to the poorest members of the community. That is true Social Justice – bringing the poor out of poverty through quality education.

 

[pnewton]

Some prefer the secularized education. If you want to make the sacrifice to send your children to a private school but continue to pay the school tax like everyone else.

Why should it have to be a sacrifice? Why should only well-to-do parents have an option? And option is all I advocate. Of course those who wants to send their children to be educated separately should be able to do so. I am all about choice. But it should be a parents choice, not the state’s. Parents should not have to pay twice for edcucation. All a voucher system would do would be to redirect funds for a particular child from one school (the state) to another (private). The only reason I can understand anyone would object is that they want to control my child’s mind.

 

[goofyjim]

Why should it have to be a sacrifice? Why should only well-to-do parents have an option? And option is all I advocate. Of course those who wants to send their children to be educated separately should be able to do so. I am all about choice. But it should be a parents choice, not the state’s. Parents should not have to pay twice for edcucation. All a voucher system would do would be to redirect funds for a particular child from one school (the state) to another (private). The only reason I can understand anyone would object is that they want to control my child’s mind.

Which is exactly my point. Parents should pay for their children’s education. Those who choose to remain single should not. So they should be exempt from the school tax.

 

[Nohome]

Which is exactly my point. Parents should pay for their children’s education. Those who choose to remain single should not. So they should be exempt from the school tax.

I agree. Singles should also be exempt from seeing the Dr.s these children grow up to be. They should be exempt from the protection offered by these sons and daughters in times of war. In fact, singles should be exempt from every service that requires skilled and educated people.

If singles don’t pay school tax I’m sure they would understand that they are not entitled to any school tax benefits.

Nohome

 

[pnewton]

If singles don’t pay school tax I’m sure they would understand that they are not entitled to any school tax benefits.

Nohome

Furthermore, perhaps they should have to pay extra taxes for social programs. Afterall, drop-outs are more likely to be on welfare rolls and need gavernment assistance than graduates.

 

[goofyjim]

I agree. Singles should also be exempt from seeing the Dr.s these children grow up to be. They should be exempt from the protection offered by these sons and daughters in times of war. In fact, singles should be exempt from every service that requires skilled and educated people.

If singles don’t pay school tax I’m sure they would understand that they are not entitled to any school tax benefits.

Nohome

But the majority of these doctors et al that you mention come from public schools. Everyone should pay school tax including those who choose to send their children to private schools. And besides the pope’s comments of subsidizing faith based schools violates the establishment of a religion in this country. Education is meant to be free for all the children. If someone wants the higher quality then they must pay extra but not take it away from someone else. By the way, if I have health insurance I am entitled to go see a doctor that akes that insurance, but that is a different topic altogether.

 

[rlg94086]

But the majority of these doctors et al that you mention come from public schools. Everyone should pay school tax including those who choose to send their children to private schools. And besides the pope’s comments of*** subsidizing faith based schools violates the establishment of a religion in this count***ry. Education is meant to be free for all the children. If someone wants the higher quality then they must pay extra but not take it away from someone else. By the way, if I have health insurance I am entitled to go see a doctor that akes that insurance, but that is a different topic altogether.

Really? Since when? You do know that private, Catholic universities are subsidized by our government, don’t you?

 

[pnewton]

Everyone should pay school tax including those who choose to send their children to private schools. And besides the pope’s comments of subsidizing faith based schools violates the establishment of a religion in this country.

I do not think anyone is advocating that we not pay taxes. Of course we should. I would never want freedom to choose my child’s education without advocating that all parents should have the same right. Thus the need for taxes. When I said earlier that at least I should get a break while I send my child to private school, that is but a portion of the school taxes I pay.

Also, the pope is not advocating an establishment of any religion by the state. On the other hand, his statement does run contrary to a wall of separation between church and state. The first phrase is listed in the constitution. The later is not.

 

[rlg94086]

I do not think anyone is advocating that we not pay taxes. Of course we should. I would never want freedom to choose my child’s education without advocating that all parents should have the same right. Thus the need for taxes. When I said earlier that at least I should get a break while I send my child to private school, that is but a portion of the school taxes I pay.

Also, the pope is not advocating an establishment of any religion by the state. On the other hand, his statement does run contrary to a wall of separation between church and state. The first phrase is listed in the constitution. The later is not.

A voucher-based system, where a set amount was available to every student to use at either a public or private institution would not run contrary to anything in the Constititution. As long as our government is not mandating a particular religuous private school, no religion is being established.

 

[goofyjim]

How about this? If a parent can offset school taxes with th cost of sending their child to a private school then the single taxpayer should be able to offset school taxes as well with any contributions made to a private school.

 

[pnewton]

How about this? If a parent can offset school taxes with th cost of sending their child to a private school then the single taxpayer should be able to offset school taxes as well with any contributions made to a private school.

Well that is an interesting twist. It reminds of a comment from Ghostbusters. After being fired from the university, Dan Ackroyd stated, “You haven’t worked in the private sector. I have. They expect results.” If private enterprise works in other areas, why not education.

 

[Nohome]

A voucher-based system, where a set amount was available to every student to use at either a public or private institution would not run contrary to anything in the Constititution. As long as our government is not mandating a particular religuous private school, no religion is being established.

Actually, a voucher-based system is good for public schools too. It is a constant reminder that parents have a choice and will go elsewhere if the schools don’t perform.

The negative is that a state could have curriculum requirements for any school receiving vouchers.

Nohome

 

[rlg94086]

Actually, a voucher-based system is good for public schools too. It is a constant reminder that parents have a choice and will go elsewhere if the schools don’t perform.

The negative is that a state could have curriculum requirements for any school receiving vouchers.

Nohome

I agree. We homeschooled for a few years, and I am aware of how evasive the government has become when it comes to private education.

 

[rlg94086]

How about this? If a parent can offset school taxes with th cost of sending their child to a private school then the single taxpayer should be able to offset school taxes as well with any contributions made to a private school.

It took me a minute to figure out what you were saying.

That would be another way of handling it, I guess. I’m not sure that it would work as well as a voucher system.

 

[goofyjim]

It took me a minute to figure out what you were saying.

That would be another way of handling it, I guess. I’m not sure that it would work as well as a voucher system.

It’s just that everyone wants relief from the school tax when they choose a private school but expect those of us who have no children to pay the full tax and give charitably to the private schools. I can’t afford to do both. So it would be a voucher system for single taxpayers making contributions, so to speak. Otherwise I have to hold back on my donations to the private schools.

 

[rlg94086]

It’s just that everyone wants relief from the school tax when they choose a private school but expect those of us who have no children to pay the full tax and give charitably to the private schools. I can’t afford to do both. So it would be a voucher system for single taxpayers making contributions, so to speak. Otherwise I have to hold back on my donations to the private schools.

I don’t understand how a voucher system would effect a single person’s donations to private schools. You would be able to “afford” them the same as you do now.

 

[FishMonger]

I would be interested in knowing what the pope thinks of the Establishment Clause of the US Constitution. Does anyone know if he or any other authority in the Church has ever addressed it? Does the Church support or oppose such clauses in the constitutions of other nations?

 

[FishMonger]

I agree. We homeschooled for a few years, and I am aware of how evasive the government has become when it comes to private education.

Home schoolers have done spectacular work. But I do hope the government keeps an eye on them for the sake of the children of the functionally illiterate who might take a notion to be home schoolers, too. Not everyone is intellectually capable of homeschooling.

 

[rlg94086]

I would be interested in knowing what the pope thinks of the Establishment Clause of the US Constitution. Does anyone know if he or any other authority in the Church has ever addressed it? Does the Church support or oppose such clauses in the constitutions of other nations?

I don’t know of any direct teaching regarding the Establishment Clause or anything similar in other constitutions, but She does teach that freedom of religion is one of our “natural freedoms.”

**1907 **First, the common good presupposes respect for the person as such. In the name of the common good, public authorities are bound to respect the fundamental and inalienable rights of the human person. Society should permit each of its members to fulfill his vocation. In particular, the common good resides in the conditions for the exercise of the natural freedoms indispensable for the development of the human vocation, such as “the right to act according to a sound norm of conscience and to safeguard . . . privacy, and rightful freedom also in matters of religion.”