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J
Johndigger
Guest
I love the Pope. Such a legend.
JD
JD
S
Scottgun
Guest
I thought thils was known for a long while now.
R
RobDH
Guest
It certainly was to me, but it’s still good to see it in the press. Wonder how long before the mainstream media picks up on it and tries to spin it?I thought thils was known for a long while now.
R
Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
Pax vobiscum!
Didn’t JPII also celebrate the TLM in private? I remember reading that.
In Christ,
Rand
Didn’t JPII also celebrate the TLM in private? I remember reading that.
In Christ,
Rand
J
Jehu
Guest
This claim is untrue, apparently.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0704072.htm
Vatican spokesman: Pope concelebrates daily Mass using current missalPOPE-DAILYMASS Jul-17-2007 (350 words) xxxi
By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service
VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Pope Benedict XVI concelebrates his daily morning Mass in Italian using the current edition of the Roman Missal, the Vatican spokesman said.
Claims that the pope celebrates his private Mass using the Tridentine rite are incorrect, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi told Catholic News Service July 17
D
Dandelion_Wine
Guest
They were talking about this on Relevant Radio yesterday and as Jehu said, it is not true.
P
prodigal-sun
Guest
T
Teelynn
Guest
Wouldn’t matter to me whether it was true or not…but the media will spin ANYTHING to make The Holy Father and The Church look bad…or too traditional…or too anything!!!
C
Caesar
Guest
If this were true, why would people be against it?
M
MFM
Guest
CWN stands by the original story. In the comments section of the orignal story:
"In answer to Charles, and for the benefit of readers who might have missed my 7/17 message to CWN subscribers:
CWN stands by the accuracy of our original report.
There is no doubt that the Holy Father celebrates the Novus Ordo Mass; that was never in question. The thrust of our story was that the Pope also uses the 1962 Missal. Nor should that news be particularly surprising, in light of the recent motu proprio underlining the rightful place of the older liturgy in the Catholic tradition."
"In answer to Charles, and for the benefit of readers who might have missed my 7/17 message to CWN subscribers:
CWN stands by the accuracy of our original report.
There is no doubt that the Holy Father celebrates the Novus Ordo Mass; that was never in question. The thrust of our story was that the Pope also uses the 1962 Missal. Nor should that news be particularly surprising, in light of the recent motu proprio underlining the rightful place of the older liturgy in the Catholic tradition."
A
avflf
Guest
Christian Evangelism -
Threat To Jewish Survival?
By Harmony Grant
7-26-7
In the last decades, Jewish activists and leaders have worked to preserve Jewish identity with a plethora of writing, films, museums and art pieces about the Holocaust. Aggressively they warn that the Shoah can reoccur anytime because Gentiles are untrustworthy and irrationally hateful of Jews. This false lesson unites Jews and is also increasingly used to demonize Christianity. Countless Jewish opinion-makers falsely equate Hitler’s malevolent desire to destroy Jews with Christians’ benevolent desire to convert them.
Here’s proof. The Vatican this month ordered continued use of an old Latin mass that asks God to mercifully convert the hearts of Jews. The powerful Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith denounced the order as “a body blow to Catholic-Jewish relations.”
ADL head Abe Foxman http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/5093_96.htmannounced “We are extremely disappointed and deeply offended that nearly 40 years after the Vatican rightly removed insulting anti-Jewish language from the Good Friday liturgy, that it would now permit Catholics to utter such hurtful and insulting words by praying for Jews to be converted.”
The ADL press release suggests the Pope acted to “satisfy a right-wing faction in the Church that rejects change and reconciliation.” Is it possible he acted to satisfy Christ? The mass says, “For the conversion of the Jews. Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, You do not refuse Your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of Your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness.”
The mass expresses no more or less than basic Christianity. Our desperate need for the saving strength of Christ’s atonement is Christianity. St Paul wrote, “If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith… If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.” (1 Cor. 15)
Christianity is not a way to be a good person, not a comfort system, not an “opiate” of hope to numb life’s distress. Christianity is the stunning and demanding revelation that God bridged the abyss between His pure love and our rebellious state; Christ and Christ alone is that bridge. This one belief defines Christianity and separates it from all other religions and ethical systems. If we do not need the Jesus’ blood to be saved, Christianity means nothing. It also offends no one.
Abe Foxman’s outrage at Catholic prayer for his conversion candidly expresses his Jewish attitude toward the basic heart of Christianity. He is threatened and incensed that some believe (and dare to say) we all–Jew and Gentile, male and female, foolish and wise–must convert and become like small children, humbly trusting the mercy of our Maker to be saved from sin. In a word, he is outraged by Christ.
To unconverted Jews like Foxman, the gospels are every bit as abhorrent as the Catholic mass. In their minds, the apostle Paul is a traitor who deserved his persecution. In reality, Paul deeply and tenderly loved his Jewish brothers and sisters. Witness his heartbroken words, “I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh…” (Rom. 9:2,3)
Before Christ confronted him on the road to Damascus, Paul acted as a sincere Jew … by persecuting Christians. Afterward he acted as a sincere Christian, by peacefully and zealously preaching for the conversion of eternal souls, whether carried by Jewish or Gentile bodies. If you sincerely believe Christ is our only hope against God’s scorching anger, you can do no less! For his trouble, Paul was mobbed, flogged, imprisoned, and driven through countless hardships.
Continued below
Threat To Jewish Survival?
By Harmony Grant
7-26-7
In the last decades, Jewish activists and leaders have worked to preserve Jewish identity with a plethora of writing, films, museums and art pieces about the Holocaust. Aggressively they warn that the Shoah can reoccur anytime because Gentiles are untrustworthy and irrationally hateful of Jews. This false lesson unites Jews and is also increasingly used to demonize Christianity. Countless Jewish opinion-makers falsely equate Hitler’s malevolent desire to destroy Jews with Christians’ benevolent desire to convert them.
Here’s proof. The Vatican this month ordered continued use of an old Latin mass that asks God to mercifully convert the hearts of Jews. The powerful Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith denounced the order as “a body blow to Catholic-Jewish relations.”
ADL head Abe Foxman http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/5093_96.htmannounced “We are extremely disappointed and deeply offended that nearly 40 years after the Vatican rightly removed insulting anti-Jewish language from the Good Friday liturgy, that it would now permit Catholics to utter such hurtful and insulting words by praying for Jews to be converted.”
The ADL press release suggests the Pope acted to “satisfy a right-wing faction in the Church that rejects change and reconciliation.” Is it possible he acted to satisfy Christ? The mass says, “For the conversion of the Jews. Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, You do not refuse Your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of Your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness.”
The mass expresses no more or less than basic Christianity. Our desperate need for the saving strength of Christ’s atonement is Christianity. St Paul wrote, “If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith… If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.” (1 Cor. 15)
Christianity is not a way to be a good person, not a comfort system, not an “opiate” of hope to numb life’s distress. Christianity is the stunning and demanding revelation that God bridged the abyss between His pure love and our rebellious state; Christ and Christ alone is that bridge. This one belief defines Christianity and separates it from all other religions and ethical systems. If we do not need the Jesus’ blood to be saved, Christianity means nothing. It also offends no one.
Abe Foxman’s outrage at Catholic prayer for his conversion candidly expresses his Jewish attitude toward the basic heart of Christianity. He is threatened and incensed that some believe (and dare to say) we all–Jew and Gentile, male and female, foolish and wise–must convert and become like small children, humbly trusting the mercy of our Maker to be saved from sin. In a word, he is outraged by Christ.
To unconverted Jews like Foxman, the gospels are every bit as abhorrent as the Catholic mass. In their minds, the apostle Paul is a traitor who deserved his persecution. In reality, Paul deeply and tenderly loved his Jewish brothers and sisters. Witness his heartbroken words, “I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh…” (Rom. 9:2,3)
Before Christ confronted him on the road to Damascus, Paul acted as a sincere Jew … by persecuting Christians. Afterward he acted as a sincere Christian, by peacefully and zealously preaching for the conversion of eternal souls, whether carried by Jewish or Gentile bodies. If you sincerely believe Christ is our only hope against God’s scorching anger, you can do no less! For his trouble, Paul was mobbed, flogged, imprisoned, and driven through countless hardships.
Continued below
A
avflf
Guest
Christian Evangelism -
Threat To Jewish Survival?
By Harmony Grant
7-26-7
Part II
Today, the message Paul spread in self-sacrificing love is treated as hate speech by Abe Foxman and other activist Jews. If the ADL succeeds with hate crime legislation, all Christians who express such “hateful” concern–who witness to the most central heart of our faith, as compelled by conscience–will be locked up and silenced.
Through hate crime laws, modern, organized Jewry (led by ADL/B’nai B’rith) thus seeks to excommunicate Christianity from public life. Catholics are the first target, because they are in some ways the easiest. They are lesser in number than evangelicals. They have been historically plagued with scandals and abuses of power. They hold some beliefs considered odd even by other Christian denominations.
But–most galling–Catholics have frequently been the only Christian source of real criticism of Zionism, the state of Israel, western Jewish activism, and the neocons’ Mideast war agenda. As Catholics are targeted, evangelicals should not feel safe. The moment they awaken to the real nature of racist, Christ-persecuting Talmudic Judaism–and speak against it–they too will be called the enemy.
In fact, they don’t even have to do that. Abe Foxman’s book Never Again? The Threat of the New Anti-Semitism describes the New Testament itself as a text of hatred. Even absurdly Zionist, war-mongering so-called Christians like John Hagee are suspect as a long as a Bible sits beside their bed.
Most evangelicals continue to resist the idea that organized Jewry and the Anti-Defamation League are behind hate laws and are consciously persecutive of Christianity. Unwilling to recognize the ongoing spiritual conflict between Judaism and Christianity, the American church now blindly and unBiblically supports the Jewish state. It embraces and actually empowers those who seek to silence the name of Christ in our nation. By its actions, it damages the eternal souls of Jews and Christians, and actually inspires anti-Semitism by empowering Israel’s abuses.
Two millennia ago, nails were driven through the hands of Christ; He rose again to life, and started a movement that revolutionized the world. His first followers were Jews who recognized His fulfillment of the promises God gave their fathers. His first persecutors were also Jews, religious fanatics whose pride in legalism, self-righteousness, and sinful self-will drove them to crucify the Lover of their souls.
Today, the conflict continues. It matters to us all, whatever faith we hold. As organized Jewry and the ADL hate laws agenda gains political and social power, its ability to silence Christianity–and other systems of “idolatry”–will increase. If one group can be silenced and imprisoned, so can others. The USA’s great miracle is astonishing, unprecedented freedom borne from our forebearers’ Christian convictions. It’s up to us to preserve the liberty of their just laws. This liberty crucially makes space even for the most unpopular beliefs.
As a Christian, it breaks my heart that the gospels’ message is now criminalized as “hate speech” in countries like Canada, Holland, and Israel. That is not yet true in America. Our unique freedom of speech should be precious to every American, whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, or atheist. The battle against Judeofascist regulation of speech is a battle for the soul of America. It is a battle in which every American is obligated to fight. The pope’s freedom is yours.
Threat To Jewish Survival?
By Harmony Grant
7-26-7
Part II
Today, the message Paul spread in self-sacrificing love is treated as hate speech by Abe Foxman and other activist Jews. If the ADL succeeds with hate crime legislation, all Christians who express such “hateful” concern–who witness to the most central heart of our faith, as compelled by conscience–will be locked up and silenced.
Through hate crime laws, modern, organized Jewry (led by ADL/B’nai B’rith) thus seeks to excommunicate Christianity from public life. Catholics are the first target, because they are in some ways the easiest. They are lesser in number than evangelicals. They have been historically plagued with scandals and abuses of power. They hold some beliefs considered odd even by other Christian denominations.
But–most galling–Catholics have frequently been the only Christian source of real criticism of Zionism, the state of Israel, western Jewish activism, and the neocons’ Mideast war agenda. As Catholics are targeted, evangelicals should not feel safe. The moment they awaken to the real nature of racist, Christ-persecuting Talmudic Judaism–and speak against it–they too will be called the enemy.
In fact, they don’t even have to do that. Abe Foxman’s book Never Again? The Threat of the New Anti-Semitism describes the New Testament itself as a text of hatred. Even absurdly Zionist, war-mongering so-called Christians like John Hagee are suspect as a long as a Bible sits beside their bed.
Most evangelicals continue to resist the idea that organized Jewry and the Anti-Defamation League are behind hate laws and are consciously persecutive of Christianity. Unwilling to recognize the ongoing spiritual conflict between Judaism and Christianity, the American church now blindly and unBiblically supports the Jewish state. It embraces and actually empowers those who seek to silence the name of Christ in our nation. By its actions, it damages the eternal souls of Jews and Christians, and actually inspires anti-Semitism by empowering Israel’s abuses.
Two millennia ago, nails were driven through the hands of Christ; He rose again to life, and started a movement that revolutionized the world. His first followers were Jews who recognized His fulfillment of the promises God gave their fathers. His first persecutors were also Jews, religious fanatics whose pride in legalism, self-righteousness, and sinful self-will drove them to crucify the Lover of their souls.
Today, the conflict continues. It matters to us all, whatever faith we hold. As organized Jewry and the ADL hate laws agenda gains political and social power, its ability to silence Christianity–and other systems of “idolatry”–will increase. If one group can be silenced and imprisoned, so can others. The USA’s great miracle is astonishing, unprecedented freedom borne from our forebearers’ Christian convictions. It’s up to us to preserve the liberty of their just laws. This liberty crucially makes space even for the most unpopular beliefs.
As a Christian, it breaks my heart that the gospels’ message is now criminalized as “hate speech” in countries like Canada, Holland, and Israel. That is not yet true in America. Our unique freedom of speech should be precious to every American, whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, or atheist. The battle against Judeofascist regulation of speech is a battle for the soul of America. It is a battle in which every American is obligated to fight. The pope’s freedom is yours.
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