Pope Benedict XVI - "faith alone is true"!

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“Extra traditions”
“Sola Catholic Church” because “the Church said so”;
Come on, you know as well as we all know that these were never taught by the Catholic Church.

Is this the way your preachers taught you to preach? Invent things and shove them into other’s mouths?

You are fabricating lies and throw them to others as false accusations. I think there is an accurate and biblical description for that: Bearing false witness against thy neighbor!

As you aptly quoted: The wages if sin is death. Watch out!
 
Can you please provide the scripture to support that sanctification is “apart” from justification?
Ac 26:18 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’
1Co 1:2 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their {Lord} and ours:
1Co 6:11 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
2Ti 2:21 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these {things,} he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
Could you please supply Catholic documents that demonstrate that justification and sanctification are “co-joined”?
Can you please show along with these Catholic statements the Scriptures that indicate that they are not “biblical”? I am very interested in learning what you mean by this.
We have seen that Protestants claim the following three qualities for justification: certainty, equality, the impossibility of ever losing it. ***Diametrically opposed ***to these qualities are those defended by the Council of Trent (sess. VI, cap. 9-11): uncertainty (incertitudo), inequality (inaequalitas), amissibility (ammisibilitas). Since these qualities of justification are also qualities of sanctifying grace, see GRACE. (co-joined=another salvation that includes works rightousness)

I am only bothering to answer so as not to allow you to say i avoided, but your are more than disingenuous about what I highlighted above; you have seen all of this before and we incabable of accepting them in the past and I’m sure you could careless about the truth. This dumb parrot repeats only what God has already spoken; since you don’t believe what i parroted, then you don’t believe what God has said.

Justification by Faith

Romans:3:22-24-26-28-30, 4:3-5-11-16 5:1-9 9:30-33, 10:4-9, 10-11:6, Galatians2:16-21 3:5-6-8-14-22 Ephesians 1:13-14 2:8-9, Phillipians 3:9, 1 Timothy1:16
I think you are having this problem because the truth is that the Bible does not “teach”. The bible is profitable in the activity of teaching, but teaching is something done by persons, not books. You have been taught these things by a person, then you look into the Bible to confirm the ideas you were given.
Argument as old as dirt and holds water like one with no bottom.

Heb 4:12 For ***the word of God is living and active ***and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Basis Living Word 101 for all the unregenerate who clain the Bibles cannot teach.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Apostles (who were authorized by Christ to teach) indicated that the grace that justifies us before God is the same grace that produces good works in us. This is why we are commanded to “work out your salvation”. We work out (in sanctification) that which was infused in us when we were justified. There is no disconnect.
Another gospel…period!

The way you are using the phrase “work out” in in the wrong context, but if I correct you; I will be tossing more Pearls, which you have already had enough of, and still keep trampling them, just as the Bible said would happem; therefore you are cut off from receving and you can be like that dog. Ruff ruff 🙂
No. The only thing that is separate is your perception of what is in Scripture. there is nothing in Catholic Teaching that is inconsistent with Scripture. It all came from the same Source.
Perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, magisterium, Catholic priesthood, nuns, monks, monasteries, nunneries, holy Orders, Mass, Eucharist, confessionals…right? nothing taught that can be found in Scripture. :rolleyes:

Enjoy your very long stay in purgatory; their is always the eternal Hope, which is the person of Christ Jesus. Amen
JB
James’ point is that our works perfect or complete our faith, meaning that the faith by which we are saved by grace is the same faith by which we walk in the good deeds that God has prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
I am interested to see the scripture that indicates how justification is a “separate event” from sanctification. I am particularly interested in exploring the Gk roots of these words in that context. I hope you can locate them for me.
 
Tradition is the one deposit of faith coming from Christ and the Apostles and handed down throughout the centuries by the Church. The Holy Spirit guarding against error.

How do you know it is all written down? St John is clear that if everything were written down there would not be enough books to contain it all. How many of the 12 Apostles wrote a book of the Bible?

Where did the contents page of the Bible come from - Tradition!
Books were selected at the Council of Rome (382 AD) that were in accord and not in contradiction with the tradition handed down.

The Catholic Church holds onto the entire deposit of faith. Tradition be it written or spoken - do you?
Just like the devil, change the Scripture just enough to give it another meaning.

Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written. Ten’s of thousands of mircles and wonders done all over Palestine probably couldn’t be written all down.

Deposit of faith; great invention, why not empty out the deposit if you all are so chairable???
 
They are the Teachings that comprise the lifestyle of the Christian, called in the NT The Way. They are the prayers, disciplines, and world view of the Apostles that have been preserved in the Church. One of them is that the interpretation of Scripture should not be separated from the Deposit of Faith in the Church.

The NT is a collection of holy writings. It was never intended to be a complete compendium of the faith.

No. The Apostles taught that the Divine Revelation is contained in two equal and complimentary strands, Sacred Scripture, and Sacred Tradition. They are not to be separated, and they are to be regarded equally.

It seems that way because you don’t recognize that Jesus is completely identified with HIs Body.

False. The Catholic Church is defined by Christ.

I can see why it would be a fallacy if your premises were true, but they are not, and it isn’t. 😃

The Church belongs to Jesus, who is her Head. She is His Body. It is by Him that she stands.
The Bible never defined a Catholic Church; another part of your imagination.
 
Really? Can you show us in Scripture where it says this about itself?

Why do you suppse the Bible testifies that the Word of God resides in the Church?

The Holy Scripture is not a “thorn in the flesh” if the Church. On the contrary, the entire NT was added to the Bible by the Church. There is nothing in it that is not Catholic.
Do you have any idea about the history of the Bible?

👍 The Apostolic kerygma did not suddenly disappear because some of it was committed to writing.

You seem to believe that Jesus Christ did not remain alive and well in the Church. 🤷

Some of them are, certainly. But hey, I am looking for copies of Paul’s lectures in Tyrannus. He was there every day for two years! I will pay top dollar, if you know where I can pick them up. 😃

There are no Sacred Traditions that are not in accord with Scripture. The entire NT was produced out of Sacred Tradition, that is why there is no contradiction.
I hope I am outside of the gate; listening to you explain that to God; it will be ugly; however i’d rather be with you in heaven and laugh about all this.
 
Come on, you know as well as we all know that these were never taught by the Catholic Church.

Is this the way your preachers taught you to preach? Invent things and shove them into other’s mouths?

You are fabricating lies and throw them to others as false accusations. I think there is an accurate and biblical description for that: Bearing false witness against thy neighbor!

As you aptly quoted: The wages if sin is death. Watch out!
Don’t call someone a liar unless you can back it with truth, which you can’t because I do not lie. You are unable to accept the things of God and that is by your own choice. Move along if you have no substance to refute with.
 
But the Catholic Church defined the Bible.
In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God. Christ is the LIVING WORD. Christ was here before the world, the church or the Bible were created. Shows your need to read and study the Bible written by the Holy Spirti under the pen of the writers; not the catholic Church; which to say the Catholice Church defined the Bible is to say the Catholic Church is equal or greater than God,whcih would be blasphemous in the sight of God.
 
In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God. Christ is the LIVING WORD. Christ was here before the world, the church or the Bible were created. Shows your need to read and study the Bible written by the Holy Spirti under the pen of the writers; not the catholic Church; which to say the Catholice Church defined the Bible is to say the Catholic Church is equal or greater than God,whcih would be blasphemous in the sight of God.
I agree: the Bible (its books) was written by ordinary people under the INFLUENCE of the Holy Spirit and this is why we can claim that the Bible is the INSPIRED Word of God, and that scripture is God BREATHED.

And LOL, talk about taking something out of context. When I said that the Catholic Church “defined” the Bible, it was COMPILED (not written) by the Catholic Church and this in itself was an INSPIRED process. The Bible was GIVEN DEFINITION by the books it contained and it was under the influence of the Holy Spirit that St. Jerome, between the years of 382 to 396AD (when the scriptures were translated from Greek and Hebrew into Latin), that this was able to happen in the first place. i.e. it was the Catholic Church that said DEFINITIVELY that these books are truly INSPIRED and thus belong in this compilation we now call the Bible, or “Biblia Sacra” (“Holy Book”) because it contains holy things.

I’m not suggesting the Catholic Church, in any way shape or form, is greater than God. Without God, without God incarnate, Jesus Christ, there is no Catholic Church; there is no Christianity. Without the Catholic Church, there would be no Bible, and who can say where it might have come from if the Catholic Church did not compile the books and discern under the influence of the Holy Spirit which books were inspired and which were not?

Addendum:
Recommended Viewing, "Where did the Bible come from?"
youtube.com/watch?v=nthLboMozm0 - Part 1
youtube.com/watch?v=ladEL-CzUxA - Part 2
youtube.com/watch?v=zhUoo9rjKCQ - Part 3
youtube.com/watch?v=PAa-X-ubKgY - Part 4
youtube.com/watch?v=MQrKF0T4zJY - Part 5
 
Deposit of faith; great invention, why not empty out the deposit if you all are so chairable???
The full deposit of faith is available in the Catholic Church. The tone of your posts seems to indicate that you don’t believe you have a need for it. 🤷

Do you deny that the Faith was committed once for all to the church?
 
Ac 26:18 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’
1Co 1:2 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their {Lord} and ours:
1Co 6:11 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
2Ti 2:21 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek]
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these {things,} he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
I think you were trying to show me that sanctification is separated from justification. However, it seems to me that they are both part of the same work of God. He justifies us so that we can serve Him. We are placed in right relationship with Him so that we can do the works that He has prepared for us.
We have seen that Protestants claim the following three qualities for justification: certainty, equality, the impossibility of ever losing it. ***Diametrically opposed ***to these qualities are those defended by the Council of Trent (sess. VI, cap. 9-11): uncertainty (incertitudo), inequality (inaequalitas), amissibility (ammisibilitas). Since these qualities of justification are also qualities of sanctifying grace, see GRACE.
All this says is that the qualities claimed by the Reformed are contrary to Apostolic Teaching.
(co-joined=another salvation that includes works rightousness)
I am sorry, I still dont see how they are separated. I also do not understand the phrase above. And third, I do not understand the term “works righteousness”. As far as I know, there is no such thing. I think you made it up! It is not found anywhere in scripture, or in Sacred Tradition. On the contrary, both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are clear that we are justified by grace, through faith, and NOT of works. Maybe you can explain what this term means?
I am only bothering to answer so as not to allow you to say i avoided, but your are more than disingenuous about what I highlighted above; you have seen all of this before and we incabable of accepting them in the past and I’m sure you could careless about the truth.
No, actually, this is the first time I have seen these terms. This phrase:
We have seen that Protestants claim the following three qualities for justification: certainty, equality, the impossibility of ever losing it.
is new information to me. The concepts are familiar, yes, but I am still not sure what is meant by the word “equality” here.

The Latin concepts used at Trent are not familiar to me either. Does this term “ammisibilitas” equate to the idea that one can fail to attain the promise?
Code:
  This dumb parrot repeats only what God has already spoken; since you don't believe what i parroted, then you don't believe what God has said.
I am sure you believe that the things you are repeating are “God’s” but you seem to have embraced many theological concepts that were created not by God, but by men during the Reformation.
Code:
  Justification by Faith
Romans:3:22-24-26-28-30, 4:3-5-11-16 5:1-9 9:30-33, 10:4-9, 10-11:6, Galatians2:16-21 3:5-6-8-14-22 Ephesians 1:13-14 2:8-9, Phillipians 3:9, 1 Timothy1:16
I don’t think we are in disagreement about this point, do you?
Code:
    Argument as old as dirt and holds water like one with no bottom.
I notice you don’t have any response to it. Did Jesus give the responsibility for teaching to people, or to a book?
Code:
   Heb 4:12    For ***the word of God is living and active ***and ***sharper than any two-edged sword***, and ***piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit***, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
yes, of course! And it is profitable for teaching and training in righteousness. That teaching and training is the gift and duty for those to whom God gives it.
Code:
 **Basis Living Word 101 for all the unregenerate who clain the Bibles cannot teach.**
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
well, dear one, Jn.1: 1 is about Jesus. This describes a person. If you believe that your bible is identical to the person of Jesus, then you have made an idol out of your Bible.

The reason that only people can teach is that the activity of teaching required intellect and discernment. It requires the ability to take responsibility and to be held accountable. These are not qualities posessed by Scripture. Those who believe they are taught by Scripture are fooling themselves. They read, and reach their own conclusions, or read from preconceived notions of what others have taught.
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  Another  gospel..period!
Indeed. The Apostles taught that there are three aspects of salvation, justification, sanctification, and glorification. These are not separated from one another, but flow from one another.
Code:
   The way you are using the phrase "work out" in in the wrong context, but if I correct you; I will be tossing more Pearls, which you have already had enough of, and still keep trampling them, just as the Bible said would happem; therefore you are cut off from receving and you can be like that dog.  Ruff ruff :)
This sounds very interesting. I hope you will change your mind. Do you not believe that you are to work out your salvation while you are on earth?
 
Code:
   Perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, magisterium, Catholic priesthood, nuns, monks, monasteries, nunneries, holy Orders, Mass, Eucharist, confessionals....right? nothing taught that can be found in Scripture.  :rolleyes:
You misunderstood. I said there is nothing that contradicts Scripture. The Church holds some doctrines that cannot be found in scripture, for instance, the list of books that belong in there, the Trinity, the hypostatic union, the observance of the Lord’s Day etc.

All the things you listed above have bases and references in scripture, but were developed from Apostolic Teaching, which preceeded the writing of the NT.
Code:
 Enjoy your very long stay in purgatory; their is always the eternal Hope, which is the person of Christ Jesus. Amen
JB
This seems like an odd comment from someone who claims not to believe in Purgatory. 🤷
The Bible never defined a Catholic Church; another part of your imagination.
We read it differently, don’t we? 😃

Catholics believe that there is only One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, One Body of Christ, the Church. that Chuch was described by the Apostles as Catholic (among other things).
I hope I am outside of the gate; listening to you explain that to God; it will be ugly; however i’d rather be with you in heaven and laugh about all this.
Since God is the author, He needs no explanation. You don’t seem to be aware of the origins of your Bible.
In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God. Christ is the LIVING WORD. Christ was here before the world, the church or the Bible were created.
It is very Catholic of you to say this! I am relieved that you can separate the Eternal God from your book.
Code:
Shows your need to read and study the Bible written by the Holy Spirti under the pen of the writers; not the catholic Church; which to say the Catholice Church defined the Bible is to say the Catholic Church is equal or greater than God,whcih would be blasphemous in the sight of God.
The men who were moved by God were Catholic. The Catholic Church collected the writings, preserved, canonized, and promulgated them. The Bible is a Catholic Book. The fact that God worked through Catholics to produce the NT and the Bible does not make them “God”. Men cannot do anything holy without the grace of God. I would think that you and I would agree on this…
which to say the Catholice Church defined the Bible is to say the Catholic Church is equal or greater than God,whcih would be blasphemous in the sight of God.
Jesus identifies Himself completely with His Body, the church. He is her Head, and she is ensouled by the HS. It is these divine elements that make the Church infallible.
 
Don’t call someone a liar unless you can back it with truth, which you can’t because I do not lie. You are unable to accept the things of God and that is by your own choice. Move along if you have no substance to refute with.
Don’t accuse anyone of teaching “extra traditions” and “Sola Catholic Church” unless you can back it up with evidence, which you can’t because there is no such evidence. You are unable to accept the things that Christ passed on to the Apostles and not written but lived and practiced and that is your own choice. Move along if you have no evidence to support your accusations.
 
He referred to it as “Luther’s phrase ‘Faith Alone.’” That has a way of limiting the meaning to what Luther meant. It is Luther’s phrase that the Pope agrees with, and that’s exactly why this is a big deal.
He said Luther’s phrase
He did not say Luther’s definition of the phrase
 
Just like the devil, change the Scripture just enough to give it another meaning.

Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written. Ten’s of thousands of mircles and wonders done all over Palestine probably couldn’t be written all down.

Deposit of faith; great invention, why not empty out the deposit if you all are so chairable???
Not everything is written down - a fact ???
Hold onto tradtion - to hold or not to hold that is the question

The Catholic Church picked the 27 books to make up the New Testament
If you disagree with this statement - then who picked the books?
The Bible didn’t give us a list - doesn’t this prove my point that not everything is in the Bible ???
 
quote:
Originally posted by 2nd adam
pope benedict xvi agreed with martin luther on the truth of faith alone!
“for this reason luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at christ, entrusting oneself to christ, being united to christ, conformed to christ, to his life”. - pope benedict xvi
thanks for posting this!!!
your welcome! I think Protestants and Catholics are much closer than most Christians realize if we understand what each community really believes.
 
Actually, I’m not sure that Luther would disagree with the Pope’s given definition.

Jon
As a staunch 5 Point Calvinist, I really like the Pope’s entire work on justificaton by faith alone, and received it as truth.
 
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