Pope Benedict's comments on condom use

[JonNC]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms_19

Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.

Jon

 

[1ke]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms_19

Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.

Jon

See the other **numerous **posts on the matter, especially in the News forum. This is much ado about nothing, as the Pope has not approved condoms, condoned condoms or contraception, or any of the other things the secular media is asserting.

The secular media has **completely **misrepresented the Pope’s statements and taken quotes out of context.

I suggest you read the Pope’s book when it comes out next week.

 

[JonNC]

See the other **numerous **posts on the matter, especially in the News forum. This is much ado about nothing, as the Pope has not approved condoms, condoned condoms or contraception, or any of the other things the secular media is asserting.

**The secular media has **completely ****misrepresented the Pope’s statements and taken quotes out of context. I suggest you read the Pope’s book when it comes out next week.

Hi 1ke,
I guess I was looking for comments from the Catholics I know and respect here in the nC forum. Your comments about the media are, frankly, what I suspected, as well. I’ve learned to never trust what the media say regarding the CC, or my communion for that matter.

Thanks,
Jon

 

[1ke]

Hi 1ke,
I guess I was looking for comments from the Catholics I know and respect here in the nC forum.

hmm, I hope I’m one of those.

Your comments about the media are, frankly, what I suspected, as well. I’ve learned to never trust what the media say regarding the CC, or my communion for that matter.

Thanks,
Jon

here’s an excellent article by Dr. Janet Smith on this subject (or non-subject, really, since the Pope didn’t say what the media are attempting to say he said):

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220ope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70#JOSC_TOP

 

[JonNC]

hmm, I hope I’m one of those.
here’s an excellent article by Dr. Janet Smith on this subject (or non-subject, really, since the Pope didn’t say what the media are attempting to say he said):

You are.

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220ope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70#JOSC_TOP

I’ll take a peek. Thanks

Jon

 

[KathleenGee]

I was in SE Africa before the AIDS epidemic hit, and worked with women who were abandoned by their men. Polygamy is practiced by just about every native in that country. The Catholic missions were wiped out by the war between Frelimo and Renamo.

We had an African Catholic couple who had a wonderful wedding participated by the locals, including the Portuguese who worked there. Then within a few months, the husband had a 14 year old girlfriend he was taking for rides on his bicycle, and the wife was extremely upset and we had to have a conference with them.

The decision by the Holy Father is trying to protect people from further decimation of population through AIDS. The only way to protect against diseases is one life long partner as Christ Himself said. But in that culture it is impossible for many.

I met a man who visited SE Africa and told me stories…that replicated my own 35 years ago, and it seems the culture has not changed much at all. You can pour all the money and comdoms you want to improve conditions in Africa, but if there is this impediment running there, it is in vain. It has been said that Africa is a dying continent.

 

[JonNC]

I was in SE Africa before the AIDS epidemic hit, and worked with women who were abandoned by their men. Polygamy is practiced by just about every native in that country. The Catholic missions were wiped out by the war between Frelimo and Renamo.

We had an African Catholic couple who had a wonderful wedding participated by the locals, including the Portuguese who worked there. Then within a few months, the husband had a 14 year old girlfriend he was taking for rides on his bicycle, and the wife was extremely upset and we had to have a conference with them.

The decision by the Holy Father is trying to protect people from further decimation of population through AIDS. The only way to protect against diseases is one life long partner as Christ Himself said. But in that culture it is impossible for many.

I met a man who visited SE Africa and told me stories…that replicated my own 35 years ago, and it seems the culture has not changed much at all. You can pour all the money and comdoms you want to improve conditions in Africa, but if there is this impediment running there, it is in vain. It has been said that Africa is a dying continent.

Thanks, Kathleen.
You have far more knowledge than I do of the sad situation there, I really appreciate your contribution.

Jon

 

[Corki]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms_19

Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.

Jon

The Pope did NOT say that condom use was acceptable as long as the intent was to avoid the spread of disease. His comments were less about the intent as about the use of the object (condom). He used an example of a male prostitute using a condom to prevent the spread of HIV. In that scenario, the condom would not have ANY contraceptive effect or action. It isn’t the latex that makes a condom immoral; it’s the fact that it’s a contraceptive that makes it immoral. A condom used by a male prostitute would not be a contraceptive.

Best analysis I have read so far:

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220ope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70

 

[JonNC]

The Pope did NOT say that condom use was acceptable as long as the intent was to avoid the spread of disease. His comments were less about the intent as about the use of the object (condom). He used an example of a male prostitute using a condom to prevent the spread of HIV. In that scenario, the condom would not have ANY contraceptive effect or action. It isn’t the latex that makes a condom immoral; it’s the fact that it’s a contraceptive that makes it immoral. A condom used by a male prostitute would not be a contraceptive.

Best analysis I have read so far:

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220ope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70

Good article, Corki.

Thanks

Jon

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Pope did NOT say that condom use was acceptable as long as the intent was to avoid the spread of disease. His comments were less about the intent as about the use of the object (condom). He used an example of a male prostitute using a condom to prevent the spread of HIV. In that scenario, the condom would not have ANY contraceptive effect or action. It isn’t the latex that makes a condom immoral; it’s the fact that it’s a contraceptive that makes it immoral. A condom used by a male prostitute would not be a contraceptive.

Best analysis I have read so far:

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220ope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70

If this is the true statement of the pope, it is a dangerous one in my opinion. if he says it is ok for some, mostly likely it will be ok for everyone. the modernists can wait for something like that to happen so they can run with it. condoms is immoral in any circunstances and should be no exception. i hope that this was a distortion of what the pope really said for the sake of the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Pope did NOT say that condom use was acceptable as long as the intent was to avoid the spread of disease. His comments were less about the intent as about the use of the object (condom). He used an example of a male prostitute using a condom to prevent the spread of HIV. In that scenario, the condom would not have ANY contraceptive effect or action. It isn’t the latex that makes a condom immoral; it’s the fact that it’s a contraceptive that makes it immoral. A condom used by a male prostitute would not be a contraceptive.

Best analysis I have read so far:

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220ope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70

i wish i knew what this means.
** As he explicitly states, the true solution involves “humanizing sexuality.”**

condoms are imoral because it facilitates and promotes free sex and that is what makes it imoral.

 

[Corki]

If this is the true statement of the pope, it is a dangerous one in my opinion. if he says it is ok for some, mostly likely it will be ok for everyone. the modernists can wait for something like that to happen so they can run with it. condoms is immoral in any circunstances and should be no exception. i hope that this was a distortion of what the pope really said for the sake of the Church.

No, condoms are not themselves immoral. It is artificial contraception, including the use of condoms, that is immoral. For a male prostitute to use a condom is no more contraceptive than to use a condom as a water balloon.

 

[1ke]

i hope that this was a distortion of what the pope really said for the sake of the Church.

Of course it is.

What he actually said is readily available to read. He did not say what the media is claiming.

 

[edwest2]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms_19

Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.

Jon

No. These comments were not just him rambling about something. He was addressing a specific use for a specific situation and not a general loosening of any rule. He called it a first step on the way to a real, moral solution.

Peace,
Ed

 

[1ke]

i wish i knew what this means.
** As he explicitly states, the true solution involves “humanizing sexuality.”**

Humanization of sexuality means that we use our sexuality in an authentic way when we use it, as humans, the way God designed it.

Is a fish more free in or out of the water? Is a train more free on or off the tracks? Are we more human (i.e. in accord with our human nature) when we are using our sexuality within or outside marriage? We are authentically human when we are using our sexuality according to our nature and God’s moral law.

 

[1ke]

He was addressing a specific use for a specific situation and not a general loosening of any rule.

Actually he didn’t address condoms AT ALL.

He called it a first step on the way to a real, moral solution.

Not exactly.

 

[Reuben_J]

If this is the true statement of the pope, it is a dangerous one in my opinion. if he says it is ok for some, mostly likely it will be ok for everyone. the modernists can wait for something like that to happen so they can run with it. condoms is immoral in any circunstances and should be no exception. i hope that this was a distortion of what the pope really said for the sake of the Church.

Hi. I can understand your concern. You are right; it’s distortion of what the Pope said.

It is dangerous because people prefer to misunderstand the Pope’s statement and Catholic belief. Otherwise there is no problem at all. The Church position on birth control is crystal clear. And so is on homosexuality. These are prohibited.

The media has seldom been kind to the Church and for reason best known to themselves would report papal’s statements that often needs the Pope to clarify them again. The media thrives in this kind of ploy; they want continuous news. When the Pope mentioned condom, the news button is promptly activated. There is news in it!

What’s the purpose of condom? Its either for birth control, illicit sex, prevention from sexual disease as in homosexual activity. None of these are allowed by the Church; in fact on the contrary. If we understand the Church’s position on this there is no way that condom should be allowed.

The recent statement by the Pope is not about condom as per its usage as mentioned above. It is different topic altogether. Been explained by other posters but I can add – it’s about humanity. Homosexual act is prohibited. There are people practicing it and cause AID. It is never easy to tell a person concerned to stop his lifestyle. Sometimes that kind of thing can begin with a certain realization – if you do it you are causing health damage to another. The answer of course is: do not do it. This is standard preaching by the Church. Failing that – do not give your AID to the others.

So is the Holy Father saying it is morally good for male prostitutes to use condoms? The Holy Father is not articulating a teaching of the Church about whether or not the use of a condom reduces the amount of evil in a homosexual sexual act that threatens to transmit HIV. The Church has no formal teaching about how to reduce the evil of intrinsically immoral action. We must note that what is intrinsically wrong in a homosexual sexual act in which a condom is used is not the moral wrong of contraception but the homosexual act itself. In the case of homosexual sexual activity, a condom does not act as a contraceptive; it is not possible for homosexuals to contracept since their sexual activity has no procreative power that can be thwarted. But the Holy Father is not making a point about whether the use of a condom is contraceptive or even whether it reduces the evil of a homosexual sexual act; again, he is speaking about the psychological state of some who might use condoms. The intention behind the use of the condom (the desire not to harm another) may indicate some growth in a sense of moral responsibility. - Dr Janet Smith (the Catholic World Report).

 

[KathleenGee]

I do not know if he is or not speaking indefinitely, but pastorally…and as others have said, it is addressed specifically to male prostitutes…so many women and children are dying of aids and not anywhere sexually active as men. The women also are faithful to caring for their young.

He is relunctantly saying it can be used for a particular segment of a given society, but also in an act of seeing promiscuity as a failure, as a means of spreading AIDS, and if a condom is all a person has to control himself, for the sake of innocent people, if he can do that, it is the first step on the road to morality…it is a faulty means, the use of condomns, but it does stop AIDS’ spread.

In Uganda, Christian women are embracing chastity and virginity, but they are also targets for multiple rapes…so sad and their lives precarious.

 

[seeker57]

Hi.
And so is on homosexuality. These are prohibited.

I apparently don’t understand your church’s stance then. My understanding is that homosexuality is not immoral, but homosexual acts were, according to your church.

As for what the pope said, I knew you folks would be all over it.

Interesting the different takes I see being taken on this story. On another site, which deals with living with HIV/AIDS and is international in scope, most people have been less than elated.

They say it is too little, too late. I know that doesn’t mesh with the dogma of your church, but it was the consensus.

In fact, some of them thought this was manipulation of the media by the Roman Catholic Church to improve its image.

I’m not sure I buy that, but it was an interesting hypothesis.

Seeker

 

[Reuben_J]

I apparently don’t understand your church’s stance then. My understanding is that homosexuality is not immoral, but homosexual acts were, according to your church.

As for what the pope said, I knew you folks would be all over it.

Interesting the different takes I see being taken on this story. On another site, which deals with living with HIV/AIDS and is international in scope, most people have been less than elated.

They say it is too little, too late. I know that doesn’t mesh with the dogma of your church, but it was the consensus.

In fact, some of them thought this was manipulation of the media by the Roman Catholic Church to improve its image.

I’m not sure I buy that, but it was an interesting hypothesis.

Seeker

That could be typo, which I am struggling with as always. My hands very often act independently of the brain. Yes, homosexual act is sinful. Homosexuality is a state and is not a sin until acted on.

Probably there are people who see this as social problem who are secular in philosophy too or activists though they might be Catholics. The teaching of the Church is simple – homosexual act is a sin; there is no compromise on that. Thus anything that the Pope may say will not in any way should nullify this. So reporters need to understand the context of his statement.

Condoms for homosexuals? In fact the Pope does not have to say anything about this. Two wrongs do not make a right. But he is a public figure and his opinion is much sought for. In the already sinful world, one can still save these people from at least, getting AIDS. Thus the suggestion, if any, for condoms for male prostitutes or even the homosexual themselves if they must be sexually active. This however is not saying that condoms is right or homosexual act is not a sin.

God bless.