Pope Benedict's comments on condom use

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I just read the news in a paper. AFP is quoting the Pope as saying, “There may be justified individual cases, for example when a male prostitute uses condom, where this can be … a first bit of responsibility, to redevelop the understanding that not everything is permitted and that one may not do everything one wishes.” AFP went on to quote him, “But it is not the proper way to deal with the horror of HIV infection.”

This seems to support the contention of many Catholics here that the condom is not right per se. Anyway, we should wait and read the book after it is published to get a more detail thought of the Pope.
 
Corki said:
The Pope did NOT say that condom use was acceptable as long as the intent was to avoid the spread of disease. His comments were less about the intent as about the use of the object (condom). He used an example of a male prostitute using a condom to prevent the spread of HIV. In that scenario, the condom would not have ANY contraceptive effect or action. It isn’t the latex that makes a condom immoral; it’s the fact that it’s a contraceptive that makes it immoral. A condom used by a male prostitute would not be a contraceptive.

Best analysis I have read so far:

catholicworldreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220:pope-benedict-on-condoms-in-qlight-of-the-worldq&catid=53:cwr2010&Itemid=70
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You keep repeating this on all the threads inrgard to this statment by the Pope. I was just wondering what makes you believe that the the sex that the male prostitute is engaged in is exclusively homosexual? The Pope did not say that. the sin of the condom is it promotion of free sex. It degrade the act to a pure usery function. So yes the condom in and of itself is immoral. Just as it would be for a hetro could that both the man and the woman are know to be steril it would still be wronge.

What the Pope has basically said is that at least in the instants of the Prostitute one can find a justification. That still does not make it right, or even justified. I said in another post that finding justification is the same as find finding socialbly acceptable answers for sociably unacceptable behavior.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
You keep repeating this on all the threads inrgard to this statment by the Pope. I was just wondering what makes you believe that the the sex that the male prostitute is engaged in is exclusively homosexual? The Pope did not say that. the sin of the condom is it promotion of free sex. It degrade the act to a pure usery function. So yes the condom in and of itself is immoral. Just as it would be for a hetro could that both the man and the woman are know to be steril it would still be wronge.

What the Pope has basically said is that at least in the instants of the Prostitute one can find a justification. That still does not make it right, or even justified. I said in another post that finding justification is the same as find finding socialbly acceptable answers for sociably unacceptable behavior.
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I keep repeating this because some people want to try to say the Pope is giving some people permission to use condoms. That is not the case at all. I believe the Pope’s example of a male prostitute was carefully chosen to divorce the discussion of condom use for HIV protection from contraception. For most sexual acts, the two would be linked.
The Church has no formal teaching about how to reduce the evil of intrinsically immoral action. We must note that what is intrinsically wrong in a homosexual sexual act in which a condom is used is not the moral wrong of contraception but the homosexual act itself. In the case of homosexual sexual activity, a condom does not act as a contraceptive; it is not possible for homosexuals to contracept since their sexual activity has no procreative power that can be thwarted. But the Holy Father is not making a point about whether the use of a condom is contraceptive or even whether it reduces the evil of a homosexual sexual act; again, he is speaking about the psychological state of some who might use condoms. The intention behind the use of the condom (the desire not to harm another) may indicate some growth in a sense of moral responsibility.
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IMHO, the Pope being interviewed, who is not speaking officially for the Church in this interview, which was given for his new book to come out.

Speaking from the information and statistics he has attained on a grand scale regarding the epidemic of HIV, Joseph Ratzinger (not the Pope) comments from his humanitarian side as a member of our society today, that male prostitutes using condoms are taking a first step of responsibility by what these male prostitutes are holding to what they (male prostitutes) believe is a moral action by them (male prostitutes) to prevent the spread of this deadly sexual transmitted disease. What person who learns of this epidemic on the grand scale, looks for answers to prevent or remove this virus from our societies?

I see Joseph Ratzinger being compassionate to those engaged in sin of homosexuality and or prostitution taking steps to prevent the disease by their own moral standards by using condoms to prevent the disease. This is a far cry of a moral standard of Christians and Church teaching.

Joseph Ratzinger’s humanitarian side is looking from the side of the male prostitutes holding to their own responsibilities and their morality. Never the Church’s stance against the use of condoms or any contraceptives is mentioned here.

I see no complacency what so ever from Joseph Ratzinger who holds the office of Pope to be condoning condoms or the use of them.

Who knows maybe his book sales will boost, so that his book can educate the public and derive more income for the poor.

I can understand the worlds view wanting to grasp at any chance from the Church religious to justify its sinful acts of using condoms, but the interview is an interview not a public teaching on condoms. Besides Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessors have already condemned condoms and birth contraceptions. This interview does not change Joseph Ratzingers position as a man nor as Pope in condemning condoms and birth contraceptives.

Peace
 
Corki said:
I keep repeating this because some people want to try to say the Pope is giving some people permission to use condoms. That is not the case at all. I believe the Pope’s example of a male prostitute was carefully chosen to divorce the discussion of condom use for HIV protection from contraception. For most sexual acts, the two would be linked.
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Exactomundo.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
You keep repeating this on all the threads inrgard to this statment by the Pope. I was just wondering what makes you believe that the the sex that the male prostitute is engaged in is exclusively homosexual? The Pope did not say that. the sin of the condom is it promotion of free sex. It degrade the act to a pure usery function. So yes the condom in and of itself is immoral. Just as it would be for a hetro could that both the man and the woman are know to be steril it would still be wronge.

What the Pope has basically said is that at least in the instants of the Prostitute one can find a justification. That still does not make it right, or even justified. I said in another post that finding justification is the same as find finding socialbly acceptable answers for sociably unacceptable behavior.
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thank you. you explained this very well. i agree with you. saying that condom is ok for some group is a big mistake. i think you explain well what the holy father is saying. i feel better now.
 
wisdomseeker said:
thank you. you explained this very well. i agree with you. saying that condom is ok for some group is a big mistake. i think you explain well what the holy father is saying. i feel better now.
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Thank you.
 
I think the Janet Smith article is excellent for folks who may be confused about what Pope Benedict said.

A couple of questions though:

Why does the media (or Protestants, for that matter) even care what the pope thinks or says? If the Church is so obviously out of step with the “real” world, why would they even bother to misrepresent Church teaching?

Man! it’s tough bein’ th’ big dog!
 
Because Satan will do anything to attack god’s church and will never stop!
 
I’m going to wait until I read the book, and find out what he ACTUALLY said, before I make any comments. Reporters may or may not have their own agenda, and they may or may not have any background knowledge at all of Catholic doctrine.
JonNC said:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms_19

Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.

Jon
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mark_a said:
A couple of questions though:

Why does the media (or Protestants, for that matter) even care what the pope thinks or says? If the Church is so obviously out of step with the “real” world, why would they even bother to misrepresent Church teaching?
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I would like to believe if the Catholic Church focused on its own issues, within its “own walls,” so to speak, there might be less scrutiny.

But, your church also likes to involve itself in the secular or “real” world, especially, recently, in secular politics.

So, I wouldn’t hold my breath

Seeker
 
this is the response from the pope that is in question. There is nothing here to suggest what the secular media are suggesting, as usual they are sensationalising everything to gain attention.

The pope said:

"There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality."
 
JonNC said:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms_19

Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.

Jon
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I think this was a terrible move on behalf of the pope because the secular media and all the many liberal priests are looking for anything they can to try to justify their anti-Catholic agendas. They are blowing this statement out of proportion like the liberal media so often does. I guarantee, as has already happened, that people are running with this to the point of saying that the Church now allows condom use in certain cases! There can be nothing further from the truth. Vatican II’s improper implementation is another clear result of bad liberal media. Why don’t women wear veils at Mass anymore when it was a tradition dating back 2000 years and linked with Scripture itself? Answer: the liberal media elaborating upon and stretching Archbishop Bugnini’s lack of a response when asked about whether women would be required to weir head coverings at the new mass. Unfortunately, the new canon law did not keep the reference because the practice had so quickly grown out of disuse through all the false teachings spread by the liberal priests, but that’s another story and discussion for another thread. I don’t think the pope should have given the slightest indication or justification that condom use can be a lesser of two evils, which is basically what he did. He, as a private individual and not as pope, was simply trying to take a more positive spin on a negative and immoral situation. The use of contraception is intrinsically evil. That fact has not changed.
 
It amazes me how the pagans cant wait to publish publicly anything when is contrary to Church’s teaching, yet they never publicize the true teachings of the Church on morals and faith. i would like to see them run wild with the teachings of the Church on faith and morals with so much emphazy as this one.
 
seeker57 said:
I would like to believe if the Catholic Church focused on its own issues, within its “own walls,” so to speak, there might be less scrutiny.

But, your church also likes to involve itself in the secular or “real” world, especially, recently, in secular politics.

So, I wouldn’t hold my breath

Seeker
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The reason The Church involes itself is two fold. 1) All of the people in the Church live in the “real” world and we look to the Church for guidence. 2) Chirst tells us to go into the world just not to be part of it.

As the Universal Shepherd of the Universal Church of the Lord, He has no option but to respond the the condition of the world and try to lead people out of that condition.

Also if by focusing on its own issues you are referring to the recent scandals these are brought about by those that choose to be apart of the problems in the world and not reling on the Lord to Keep them out of those sins.
 
Originally Posted by JonNC
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/…ope_condoms_19
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Understanding that his comments were his own, and not offical Church teaching, I am curious what the reaction is of my Catholic brothers sisters regarding his remarks.
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Jon
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Hi there Jon,

Yes they were his private comments as a mere man and not a declaration of Church stance on the issue. That said The way I have read his statments are as with everything else you have to place them what what has been said before and that is the He (nor the church for that matter) hold that condoms are effective or the in the fight to end not only AIDS, but all STD’s. However the use of a condom by a male prostitute that is infected with this does show that he has at least grown morally enough to know that he should do something to protect his partner, He never said that it was right to use the condom just that its use did show a sign of growth.

My personal reaction was that I wish he had said nothing as knowing the way those with a strong Liberal/progressive mind set like to take statments like this a twist them as well as those that are striving to live the morally correct life and confronted with issue of dealing with illness such as AIDS that they may have contracted from Blood ( all most impossible now days) is confussing for them.
 
seeker57 said:
I apparently don’t understand your church’s stance then. My understanding is that homosexuality is not immoral, but homosexual acts were, according to your church.

As for what the pope said, I knew you folks would be all over it.

Interesting the different takes I see being taken on this story. On another site, which deals with living with HIV/AIDS and is international in scope, most people have been less than elated.

They say it is too little, too late. I know that doesn’t mesh with the dogma of your church, but it was the consensus.

In fact, some of them thought this was manipulation of the media by the Roman Catholic Church to improve its image.

I’m not sure I buy that, but it was an interesting hypothesis.

Seeker
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On the contrary, it was the other way around. The pagan secular media is most interested in the tiniest whisper from the Church that might legitimize something they want. There has been no change.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=514325

The dogma of the Church is not arbitrary. It is based on data as well.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/harvard_researcher_agrees_with_pope_on_condoms_in_africa/

It is very sad to see the media being so selective in what they report and how they report it.

Peace,
Ed
 
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