Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[YoungTradCath]

Huh. This isn’t my experience in parishes. In nearly all of the parishes I’ve attended (seven with regularity), there has been a very active pro-life group that was omnipresent. But in all but two of these parishes, there weren’t any sustained efforts to benefit the poor beyond diocesan appeals and the occasional canned good drive around Christmas and the like. To be fair, the other two parishes are exceptionally involved in fighting poverty both locally and globally. But for me, this kind of community has always been more difficult to locate on a parish level. Or are you speaking of non-parish organizations?

I think, globally speaking, there are more Catholics working in the help the poor field than the pro life movement. To extend the right-of-center thing a bit, I think the popular perception among them/us is that the pro-life movement is much more fragile than the anti-poverty movement. No one says who has more to lose, but I do believe the pro-life movement currently stands to lose more easily and quickly than the help the poor movement. This is in part because leftists/secularists tend to love help the poor organizations. So the perceived attack on the pro-life movement by the Pope is being taken as, “Seriously, attack us?”

 

[Fevronia]

I have to laugh a bit because I’ve not ever heard of the SVP society (guessing, of course, that it’s St. Vincent dePaul?). But I’m not laughing at your depiction of “liberal” parishes.

As for the validity of my “argument,” to what specifically are you referring?

The idea that there are more Pro-life activity over Charity work. Such a statement is impossible considering even the Atheists as a whole and every non-Catholic agrees about charity. What they disagree on is Pro-life issues.

 

[gracepoole]

To quote a priest’s homily I heard 2 weeks ago, “the Church is not an NGO.” Charity, work for the poor, etc, is all wonderful and part of the Gospel message, but if it isn’t backed up in doctrine then it is meaningless.

But Pope Francis said this same thing in June. ??

zenit.org/en/articles/francis-the-church-is-not-an-ngo

 

[KEP1983]

The pope is absolutely correct. However the impression people are getting from secular headlines is deceptive. Homosexual acts and abortion will always be sinful and evil acts; and the pope reasserts the Church’s teaching on this; however his point is that these two issues do not define the Christian message.

The goal of Christianity is not to merely follow rules— the Pharisees were very good at only following rules–and condemning those who broke the rules.

What Christ teaches through His Church is that we are called to be transformed— sanctified into the person God wants us to be with the grace He has given us within the circumstances of our life.

Yes, homosexual acts and abortion will land you in hell, but so will dishonesty, greed, hate, un-forgiveness, pride, and along list of other sins. To reduce Catholicism to merely theological truths and to become Catholic because Catholicism teaches the truth is is to miss the point of Catholicism itself–The Catholic Church is on earth to help wretched sinners become saints, and the first step is repent of our sins out of love for God, not out of fear of breaking rules.

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Great summation. The sad thing is that Pope Francis seems to not care that his words are going to be twisted into radical things that he never said.

But then again, perhaps that’s his desire. As of now people think of Christians primarily as 1) homophobes and 2) anti-abortion. Pope Francis is showing the pro-poor side of Catholicism, and the liberals think they finally got their liberal Pope. And what’s going to happen? Pope Francis is going to remain a morally strong Catholic. And the liberal media will no longer be able to say Catholic moral teachings=hating poors and gays. After all, the only world leader who will back up his support of the poor by personal action-- washing homeless people’s feet in public etc etc-- still believes homosexual acts and abortion are wrong!!!

I think we’re about to witness the “conservatives hate the poor and gays” card being removed from the modernist deck forever.

 

[gracepoole]

The idea that there are more Pro-life activity over Charity work.

Where did I say that?

 

[Fevronia]

Great summation. The sad thing is that Pope Francis seems to not care that his words are going to be twisted into radical things that he never said.

But then again, perhaps that’s his desire. As of now people think of Christians primarily as 1) homophobes and 2) anti-abortion. Pope Francis is showing the pro-poor side of Catholicism, and the liberals think they finally got their liberal Pope. And what’s going to happen? Pope Francis is going to remain a morally strong Catholic. And the liberal media will no longer be able to say Catholic moral teachings=hating poors and gays. After all, the only world leader who will back up his support of the poor by personal action-- washing homeless people’s feet in public etc etc-- still believes homosexual acts and abortion are wrong!!!

I think we’re about to witness the “conservatives hate the poor and gays” card being removed from the modernist deck forever.

The problem is, it will also get removed from the mind of most Catholics as well. Its already absent in the parish level for most and now the Pope is saying otherwise too. Most people will start fights with their pastor when they hear something on these topics next time.

 

[Fevronia]

Where did I say that?

Isn’t that the crux of your argument? That the Pope wants to balance it?

 

[AdvanceAlways]

But Pope Francis said this same thing in June. ??

zenit.org/en/articles/francis-the-church-is-not-an-ngo

But this interview has given the impression that the Church ought to simply be an NGO that wants the world to like it. Help the poor, but stop offending people with talk of abortion. Give to charity, but don’t you dare let gays think you’re uncharitable toward them. All I can say is that I pray for Pope Francis, and I pray that he clarifies things quickly. The media is using his words to damn souls.

 

[opus101]

I’m really convinced now that the headline distorted the whole thing!!!

The NCReg article clears that up for me. I hope I’m right.

The Pope was saying that the Press needn’t focus so much on those issues.
ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-gives-major-interview-to-the-jesuits/

He said “we”, but he meant “you” (meaning the press) .

If you try reading it like that, it all becomes clear.

He was saying that those issues need to be spoken of in depth according to the Gospel, which is not something that is easily done in interviews with reporters. That is why he has evaded discussing them in that format.

Unfortunately, it didn’t help.

But he is not stupid, in fact he is quite clever. In the end, a clarification will be given…and then everyone will have to eat their words.

Isn’t this possible? Or am I delirious?

In the translation given in The Register, he never said that the Church should not focus on those issues. That was something the headline said on this thread, but it’s not what he said!

 

[gracepoole]

Isn’t that the crux of your argument? That the Pope wants to balance it?

I think you may be confused. Pope Francis is the one who spoke of balance – I’m simply trying to understand his comments through discussion here.

“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

If you have a problem with “balance,” your argument is with the pontiff and not with me.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I just guess I fundamentally don’t see how there is an imbalance. I don’t see how abortion, homosexualism and related things have been in reality made to be “more important” or whatever than helping the poor and related things. It is not like Catholic charitable organizations are being squashed to the glee of pro-life organizations.

 

[The_Reginator]

It’s approaching midnight and I don’t have the mental capacity to read 33+ pages of posts, so forgive me if I’m repeating what has already been linked to:
First thoughts about the Francis Interview

				 						Posted on [19 September 2013](http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/09/first-thoughts-about-the-francis-interview/) by [Fr. John Zuhlsdorf](http://wdtprs.com/blog/author/fatherz/)

Father Z has a number of great points. Here’s just one:

…
Also, think about the** “Francis effect” in the reporting of this interview**.
For example, if Benedict XVI – talking in an interview about the need for a theology of women and a deeper discussion of the role of women in the Church – had said what Francis said, the headlines would have screamed “POPE DENIES EQUALITY TO WOMEN!”. On the other hand, Francis, in this interview, spoke with real disdain for “female machismo” as a solution to the question of women’s roles. When you read the paragraph on women and women’s roles in the Church you discover that Pope Francis is NOT a fan of radical feminism. Francis spoke about what Popes before him have called “feminine genius”. Nothing new. He said, “a woman has a different make-up than a man” and “we must not confuse the function with the dignity.” But since this is Francis being interviewed, and not Benedict or John Paul, journalists will go with something like, “POPE WANTS GREATER ROLES FOR WOMEN!”. You won’t read what the Pope really communicated: Yes, women must play an important role in the Church, but men’s roles and women’s roles are different, and that also means that women can’t be ordained.
…

G’night all.:yawn:

 

[AdvanceAlways]

I’m reading comboxes on other Catholic blogs and sites. There are Catholics going through crises of faith over the Holy Father’s words. Liberals are overjoyed and some devout Catholics are questioning Catholicism. Wonderful…

 

[gracepoole]

But this interview has given the impression that the Church ought to simply be an NGO that wants the world to like it. Help the poor, but stop offending people with talk of abortion. Give to charity, but don’t you dare let gays think you’re uncharitable toward them. All I can say is that I pray for Pope Francis, and I pray that he clarifies things quickly. The media is using his words to damn souls.

So even though he explicitly said the Church is not and should not be viewed as an NGO just three months ago, he’s still giving the wrong impression? In any case, I don’t read the pope as claiming that Catholics should “stop offending people with talk of abortion.”

 

[livingwordunity]

I’m really convinced now that the headline distorted the whole thing!!!

The NCReg article clears that up for me. I hope I’m right.

The Pope was saying that the Press needn’t focus so much on those issues.
ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-gives-major-interview-to-the-jesuits/

He said “we”, but he meant “you” (meaning the press) .

If you try reading it like that, it all becomes clear.

He was saying that those issues need to be spoken of in depth according to the Gospel, which is not something that is easily done in interviews with reporters. That is why he has evaded discussing them in that format.

Unfortunately, it didn’t help.

But he is not stupid, in fact he is quite clever. In the end, a clarification will be given…and then everyone will have to eat their words.

Isn’t this possible? Or am I delirious?

In the translation given in The Register, he never said that the Church should not focus on those issues. That was something the headline said on this thread, but it’s not what he said!

I also interpreted the interview as the Pope telling the press to back off with the endless questioning about homosexuals and abortion.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

So even though he explicitly said the Church is not and should not be viewed as an NGO just three months ago, he’s still giving the wrong impression? In any case, I don’t read the pope as claiming that Catholics should “stop offending people with talk of abortion.”

Then telling us that we’re obsessed with it and we need to talk about the poor more is accomplishing what? Other than demonizing a strong element of the Church militant? I want to read this and think it’s all wonderful, but seeing progressives declaring moral victory over the Church is making me ill. Seeing a Pope’s words being used to justify the beliefs of the abortion lobby is something I never thought I’d see.

 

[opus101]

I just guess I fundamentally don’t see how there is an imbalance. I don’t see how abortion, homosexualism and related things have been in reality made to be “more important” or whatever than helping the poor and related things. It is not like Catholic charitable organizations are being squashed to the glee of pro-life organizations.

You are right. And this whole thing is a huge misunderstanding.
He simply did not say that. I’m 99% convinced the whole thing was reported inaccurately. Our view of what was said was influenced by false headlines.
He never said that “the Church” focusses too much on those things. That is nowhere to be found in the article. IMO, he said that the media does that, and he would rather not comment on those things in that venue.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

You are right. And this whole thing is a huge misunderstanding.
He simply did not say that. I’m 99% convinced the whole thing was reported inaccurately. Our view of what was said was influenced by false headlines.
He never said that “the Church” focusses too much on those things. That is nowhere to be found in the article. IMO, he said that the media does that, and he would rather not comment on those things in that venue.

I truly wish that was the case. From where in the interview did you draw that he was referring to the media?

 

[TimSpalding]

I just guess I fundamentally don’t see how there is an imbalance. I don’t see how abortion, homosexualism and related things have been in reality made to be “more important” or whatever than helping the poor and related things. It is not like Catholic charitable organizations are being squashed to the glee of pro-life organizations.

FWIW–to go directly to you point–consider Catholic Relief Services, which was subject to an intensive barrage of attacks from pro-life groups, like LifeSiteNews, calling for CRS to be dissolved, over weak and shifting allegations involving CRS and outside non-Catholic groups that may or may not have distributed condoms. These allegations have appeared a number of times on CAF, and convinced many (apparently) not to donate to CRS, and to advocate for its dissolution ( see forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=760778&highlight=Catholic+Relief+Services ). After months of this the USCCB stepped in with a robust defense of CRS, pointing out the flimsy nature of the charges and emphasizing the need to engage with the world. But the drumbeat was loud indeed.

The effort to destroy CRS is part of a larger cultural move–making sure that Catholic charities, colleges, schools and so forth stand well apart from anyone that disagrees with them, agrees with them in some but not all ways, or works hand-in-hand with them on something but has some other program or view at variance with Catholic teaching. It’s gotten to the point that a Catholic institution is criticized if it talks to or works with any non-Catholic organization–and, well, not all Catholic ones either.

The Pope is clearly not of this school of thought.

 

[KrazyKat]

Let us pray for Pope Francis and clarification of exactly what he was saying will be reported in due time. He is our Pope and the Holy Spirit does not err.