Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[opus101]

What I find really confusing here is this claim of the Church’s focus on Gays and Abortion ? All evidence seems to indicate that we have lost are focus on these issues, and now have millions upon millions of Catholics the world over who now have no problem voting for politicians who thoroughly reject Catholic teaching in these matters. I’m just not seeing the Catholic Churches where these topics are an obsession. Not anywhere period.

Exactly. The truth is that the Holy Father did not imply this. He definitely didn’t say it.

He never said what the headlines are reporting. Read for yourself. Try to read without the prior influence of the headlines.

It is simply a false accusation to say that he feels the Church emphasizes those issues too much.

What he did say was that it was not necessary to constantly be talking about those things in improper contexts or in a manner extracted from the rest of the Gospel message.

Personally, I think he was asking the rest of us to stop reacting to the constant provoking of activists. Their incessant focus on these things is in a deconstructionist mode that extracts the issue from the broader context of the Church. When we are always giving that “Catholic answer”, it appears to the world that we ourselves are focussing on those matters, rather than just reacting to provocation.

In essence, he was saying to the secular world “Stop provoking. I refuse to spend my life as a slave to topics of your choice. When I speak on these subjects it will be in the proper context and venue. The Faith is a whole, it is not to be deconstructed into bits and pieces.”

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

It is clear that the Pope’s words have fallen on deaf ears.

Where is the loving charity there?!

 

[zab]

No. The quote I am referring to is this:

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods…I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that.”

And, as well, I am referring to all those who have interpreted Pope Francis’ as accusing Catholics with being obsessed with these issues.

That is why we need to read the entire interview for ourselves and not go by the selective reporting of the secular media and those who have interpretations based on that selective reporting.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

The problem is most will not read it. There are people across the globe who think that the Church now approves of abortion. That is scandal.

 

[Lormar]

That is why we need to read the entire interview for ourselves and not go by the selective reporting of the secular media and those who have interpretations based on that selective reporting.

I have read it. Twice. In fact, the first time I went to read it, I prayed before reading it so that my heart and mind would be open to what he had to say.

As far as I am concerned, his homosexual/abortion comment is the least of what I found problematic.

I still would like to know what he means by this:

“The people itself constitutes a subject. And the church is the people of God on the journey through history, with joys and sorrows. Thinking with the church, therefore, is my way of being a part of this people.** And all the faithful, considered as a whole, are infallible in matters of belief, and the people display this infallibilitas in credendo, this infallibility in believing, through a supernatural sense of the faith of all the people walking together. **This is what I understand today as the ‘thinking with the church’ of which St. Ignatius speaks. When the dialogue among the people and the bishops and the pope goes down this road and is genuine, then it is assisted by the Holy Spirit. So this thinking with the church does not concern theologians only."

 

[zab]

The problem is most will not read it. There are people across the globe who think that the Church now approves of abortion. That is scandal.

Well, even the secular media has reported this morning that the Pope blasted abortion.
huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/20/pope-blasts-abortion-afte_0_n_3961888.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

 

[kozlosap]

Agreed, but you seem to suggest ( you did NOT state) that those babies dying through abortions are more important that the children dying of starvation or who are murdered. I don’t believe any life is worth more or less in God’s eyes just because of how they are killed or for what reason. Every child, or adult who dies is a child of God.

:thumbsup:Amen.

 

[zab]

I have read it. Twice. In fact, the first time I went to read it, I prayed before reading it so that my heart and mind would be open to what he had to say.

As far as I am concerned, his homosexual/abortion comment is the least of what I found problematic.

I still would like to know what he means by this:

That quote puzzled me, too, but I don’t want to let one sentence that I don’t fully understand, negate that greater good of the entire interview.

 

[saggal]

You know, I always thought saying that someone “is more Catholic than the Pope” was a joke.

Not anymore.

 

[saveusfromhell]

I. And all the faithful, considered as a whole, are infallible in matters of belief, and the people display this infallibilitas in credendo, this infallibility in believing, through a supernatural sense of the faith of all the people walking together :

I agree . the “small minded” comment and the quote above are hard to digest.

 

[Lormar]

That quote puzzled me, too, but I don’t want to let one sentence that I don’t fully understand, negate that greater good of the entire interview.

Well, this is the problem with these interviews. We can’t ask him to clarify what he meant, and no clarification is being issued by the Vatican.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

You know, I always thought saying that someone “is more Catholic than the Pope” was a joke.

Not anymore.

No one here is acting more Catholic than the Pope (well, except for the progressive dissenters), some people here are simply confused by the Pope.

 

[Kopratic]

{I don’t wish to get too involved in the current discussion, so I’m just adding my own views/thoughts after having read the entire interview.}

It seems to me that Pope Francis is essentially getting at going to the original source when dealing with things. When talking about St. Thomas Aquinas, he makes a mention that you can really only fully experience his genius by reading what he, himself wrote. You must go first to the original source. Likewise, when dealing with people and ministering to them, we must go to the original source of everything: God. Who is God? God is love. Thus, we must begin ministering with love. Then, we move on to the other things.

As others have stated, the Pope is not changing Church teaching. Also, I did not see any instance of him calling anyone “obsessive” or “small-minded.” From that section, I gathered two things from reading the interview: The first is that Pope Francis is saying that he doesn’t like it how people are telling him that he was doing a bad job by not immediately talking about abortion, same-sex “marriage,” etc. The second is that we cannot bash these people over the head with rules first. We must start with loving them, then helping them on the right path – explaining the rules to them so that they may hopefully adhere to them. Personally, I did not read it as “Stop talking about this stuff. Catholics are becoming too obsessive over trivial things like abortion, etc.” Instead, I saw it as, “Love the person first. Yes, this woman had an abortion. However, we need to look at the root of the problem. Afterward, we can bring her back into the Light.”

In regards to Pope Benedict XVI and the continuation of the papacy through Pope Francis, this is how I view it, personally. Pope Benedict XVI helped to strengthen the core from the inside. He was {is} an amazing man who certainly helped a great multitude of people grow in faith. He set a strong foundation of believers. Now, Pope Francis wants to take the foundation and build upon it. He does not wish to change or destroy it but simply build.

One final note, I don’t think Pope Francis was implying that everyone who deals with these issues as unloving. He states that he believes “some” are. From what I’ve read here in this thread, it appears that we are not included in this “some” but are {should be} the models of others. For the most part, though it has been heated, I have seen charity all around, and that is very encouraging.

 

[opus101]

The Pope is setting examples for us to follow:

1. Underscore the Church’s unchanging doctrine, then refuse to get into a debate about it
   in venues that cannot possibly lend themselves to a full and just treatment of the
   subject. Do not be reactionary to the point of being distracted from accomplishing
   your vocation/daily duty by focussing only on what others throw at you, rather than
   what you are being asked to accomplish today by God.
2. Prayer, fasting and Eucharistic adoration are the effective means, sometimes the
   *only *effective means for dealing with these things. We can talk ourselves blue
   in the face, and write our fingers to the bone, but there are some things that will
   be accomplished only through prayer and fasting.

Both of the above indicate that the Pope is well aware of the times and the activity of “the father of lies” (his words).

In #1, the constant distractions by lobbyists, activists, trolls, etc., cause us to lose focus on our prayer life, sacramental life and daily duty. Their obsessions narrow our focus and make us reactionary slaves to their provocations.

They are distracting us for a reason.

In regard to #2, it is becoming more and more evident (through all of the mass confusion, chaos and loss of faith that always results from these affairs) that we are not tangling with mere human forces.

 

[Joe_5859]

Pope Francis is absolutely right. The Church needs to move Beyond Gays and Abortion…To People

I wouldn’t say that Pope Francis is advocating we move “beyond” these issues in a way that would indicate one’s opinion on them is of no consequence. He is asking us to focus first on proclaiming the Good News of Jesus’ infinite saving mercy. That’s what is going to attract people to the Church more so that emphasizing the “rules”.

He does say several times that the teaching on those subjects is already clear. He is not opening the door to changing moral teaching. He is just making sure we start off with the One Thing Necessary.

 

[Joe_5859]

The Pope is setting examples for us to follow:

1. Underscore the Church’s unchanging doctrine, then refuse to get into a debate about it
   in venues that cannot possibly lend themselves to a full and just treatment of the
   subject. Do not be reactionary to the point of being distracted from accomplishing
   your vocation/daily duty by focussing only on what others throw at you, rather than
   what you are being asked to accomplish today by God.
2. Prayer, fasting and Eucharistic adoration are the effective means, sometimes the
   *only *effective means for dealing with these things. We can talk ourselves blue
   in the face, and write our fingers to the bone, but there are some things that will
   be accomplished only through prayer and fasting.

Both of the above indicate that the Pope is well aware of the times and the activity of “the father of lies” (his words).

In #1, the constant distractions by lobbyists, activists, trolls, etc., cause us to lose focus on our prayer life, sacramental life and daily duty. Their obsessions narrow our focus and make us reactionary slaves to their provocations.

They are distracting us for a reason.

In regard to #2, it is becoming more and more evident (through all of the mass confusion, chaos and loss of faith that always results from these affairs) that we are not tangling with mere human forces.

This is a very well-stated summary. I think think you are right on target with what Pope Francis is doing.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

I’d simply like to ask Pope Francis, are all the people who have gone to jail over protesting children being murdered via abortion just a bunch of obsessed fanatics? Are the people who attend March for Life events all over the world a bunch of obsessed fanatics? The truly obsessed are the purveyors of death in society, not those standing up for moral truths.

I know the Pope had some pro-life quotes today, I know Pope Francis is pro life, but I still can’t help but be scandalized by his words in this interview.

 

[irishpatrick]

I think the Pope has consistently stressed God’s Mercy (think Saint Faustina here), and he is again now, imo. We live in perilous times, perilous to souls–and it is quite possible that the time of God’s Divine Mercy is coming to a close, so the Pope might be trying to “get all hands on deck,” no matter how imperfect, in order to save more souls before the Day of God’s Justice comes upon the world. The Pope does not need to speak to us about these things because he assumes that we are already safely inside the Ark of Salvation (Holy Mother Church)–so, he is casting a very wide net by spreading God’s Divine Mercy with the hope that the net will pull many souls into that same Ark. After all, the Pope, and the Lord’s Church, is supposed to be about saving souls.

On the flipside, even if the Day of Justice is NOT near, the Pope’s method is still sound, because if he can attract more people into that Ark, it is possible that God’s loving Grace will convert their hearts…and none of us have anywhere to go (not that we would), because Jesus and His Church have the Words and path to life.

It is a plus–plus, we faithful Catholics just need to see it as that.

The world is in desperate need of more Christ, not less, and the Pope appears to be trying to attract more people into the knowledge that the Lord will forgive them of all their sins, and that all people who desire salvation can find it in Jesus Christ.

Just my two cents…

 

[opus101]

I’d simply like to ask Pope Francis, are all the people who have gone to jail over protesting children being murdered via abortion just a bunch of obsessed fanatics? Are the people who attend March for Life events all over the world a bunch of obsessed fanatics? The truly obsessed are the purveyors of death in society, not those standing up for moral truths.

I know the Pope had some pro-life quotes today, I know Pope Francis is pro life, but I still can’t help but be scandalized by his words in this interview.

He never said those words. You are interpreting him through the lens of the secular press.
Others have interpreted him wrongly. He would never say that defending the unborn is an obsession. In fact, he never did. Read his words carefully, trying to put away the prior influence of all of the hoopla and headlines.

There are those who would like you to believe that he said those things, and they seem to have succeeded.

Have faith, and try not to be so easily deceived.

Blessed be the Holy Name of Jesus.

 

[irishpatrick]

I’d simply like to ask Pope Francis, are all the people who have gone to jail over protesting children being murdered via abortion just a bunch of obsessed fanatics? Are the people who attend March for Life events all over the world a bunch of obsessed fanatics? The truly obsessed are the purveyors of death in society, not those standing up for moral truths.

I know the Pope had some pro-life quotes today, I know Pope Francis is pro life, but I still can’t help but be scandalized by his words in this interview.

The Pope did not make statements about any of that–his target audience were not faithful Catholics, he is spreading a wide net of Divine Mercy toward millions who are lost. All those working for life should continue on, for I trust that the Pope expects us all to do that.

Please, understand, the world is truly lost right now…perhaps 10% of all Christians are truly Christian…the Pope is trying to save as many souls as he can. Even a little bit of grace can go a long way. The Holy Spirit is working overtime right now, so I expect the future to be quite amazing.

What an awesome time to be alive on earth–what a time to be called to be a faithful witness to Christ–how awesome it is that the God of the universe put us here right now!