Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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Baloo said:
…living a Catholic lifestyle and being an example for others however will, and with that brings an end to things like abortion and gay marriage.
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Wasn’t there another Francis who said that 👍

Interesting was the CNN flash on my phone vs. the actual interview in context.
 
agnes_therese said:
This part of the message?
“The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church.”

Hard to be much clearer than that. How do you propose that he stop people who are determined to see something that’s not there?
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Indeed. People are reading into this too much, as always. They are going to be disappointed when they find out that nothing has changed except that Francis wants to stop being inwardly focused and instead focus outwardly.

Seriously everyone, that’s all that’s different. The Holy Father thinks the clergy and theologians and all the leaders of the Church are too insular and too focused on minutia while the rest of the world goes by them and destroys itself with sin. And he’s right!

Failing to preach the Gospel at all times and to all people is the greatest failure of them all.
 
He is so good for the Church and the world

“The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules. The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all. The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that. In pastoral ministry we must accompany people, and we must heal their wounds.
 
robert_chacon said:
This is just a typical MSM headline, screaming for attention and completely failing to understand the real issues of religion and faith they are reporting on. I read the interview in America. The Pope never “faults” preaching on these topics. He simply argues for preaching that starts with the salvation of Christ and explains how that salvation has an impact on our morals, that we start with Gods love and what that means for our lives. He seems to fault when preaching only starts and ends with the moral imperatives and never explains the why or how they flow from Gods love and our salvation. I completely agree. If I have any fault with the Church it is exactly this. A good Catholic has to connect the dots on his own. But the message from the pulpit to he pews and to the world is usually just moral mandates , thou shalt do or shalt not do. The world and most of us in the pews, have little or no understanding of the why, of the mercy and love of God that relates to issues such as gay “marriage” or contraception or even abortion. I have often found that when discussing such issues with friends, when I do start with the context of Gods love for us, there is at least an openness to the message. They may not agree, but a visceral reaction against the Church melts somewhat to a realization that Christianity is not just about old rules from a book but a message coming from a source of love and charity. I believe that is the Popes message and has been his approach since he started his papacy.
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Agree, completely.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
He is so good for the Church and the world

“The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules. The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all. The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that. In pastoral ministry we must accompany people, and we must heal their wounds.
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Read it people. Read it. I say it again, READ IT. It’s not the Holy Father’s fault that the media is going to twist what he has to say. They’re going to twist it no matter what. So should he be silent?

I imagine that Christ’s words were twisted plenty. I’m sure many in the crowds did not hear what they expected based on what they heard through the grapevine. Look at how many followed Him and then abandoned Him when they heard His command to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Look at the adoring crowds that turned into a bloodthirsty mob when they did not hear what they expected.

Should Christ have silenced himself out of fear that His message would be inadvertently or even deliberately twisted? Good heavens no. And neither should His vicar be silent regardless of how the media will portray it.
 
It seems to me he is looking at these three moral issues (always at the forefront of western European and North American secular society when thinking on the Catholic Church) from a PASTORAL context–not as a theologian espousing and enforcing teaching on the doctrines underpinning those moral positions. He is not saying anything prior popes have not said–preach the gospel and salvation open for all, and then get the “sinners” to come to terms with what the Church teaches, with the hope some will try and live out their lives in conformity with the Church’s teachings. FOCUSING on those issues at every turn in the media can be distracting from the overarching goal of treating our fellow sinful brothers and sisters with charity and tolerance as people.
 
gracepoole said:
Amen, Amen, Papa! What a tremendous gift to the Church and the world he is.
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:thumbsup:Triple Amen! My heart is soaring. Thank the Holy Spirit for helping the conclave choose a man who both lives and teaches the Gospels.
 
Cider said:
  1. It’s the NY Times. Not a reliable source for interpretation of what the Church or the Holy Father says.
Having said that, IMO sadly we don’t hear nearly often enough strong teaching on moral issues in the pews. Obsessed? Not even close.
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What does the RCC teach about homosexuality?

What does the Bible say?
The Bible, as God’s Word, reveals God’s moral character and it shapes the morality of the Christian. The Bible has much to say about homosexuality:

1.Lev. 18:22 , “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
2.Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them.”
3.1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,1 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
4.Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
 
AdvanceAlways said:
As much as we can interpret his words to simply be a call to evangelize with the Gospel, can anyone here deny that this will give credence to clergy who support same sex marriage or who downplay the evil of abortion? That this will give credence to pro-choice “Catholics” and gay “marriage” activists?
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People who are in favor of same-sex marriage or abortion are not listening to the Pope or anyone else. If they do listen to him, they’ll get the message that Church teachings are clear. But they’ll also get the message that “…the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful.” If people’s hearts change – if they understand who we are following and what kind of life he is calling us to live – people will change and the world will change.

I have hope for a better world in the future, but it comes from changing hearts, not handing down pronouncements.
 
A quote I like from the interview

" I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds… And you have to start from the ground up"
 
seaoctopus said:
a quote i like from the interview

" i see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds… And you have to start from the ground up"
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yes, yes, yes!
 
[QUOTEIt’s not the Holy Father’s fault that the media is going to twist what he has to say. They’re going to twist it no matter what.]

Good point 🙂 Thats pretty pathetic what we are dealing with in America, where the media continues to skew things against the Church and her own teachings. Has it always been like this or is this the worst it has been?
 
I’m so thankful for the courage Pope Francis has in challenging our Church to live up to our calling.

I don’t think he’s referring to the message of a weekly, 7-minute homily when he says we shouldn’t focus on these important moral teachings. He’s talking about the PUBLIC image. The image that appears on CNN, Fox, NBC, or in the NY Times and other publications.

If you read through secular media (journalism major here, I was bombarded by it for 4 years), you see a church of strict rules, filled with corruption and scandal, and not much love because of how hard it comes against gay marriage, abortion and other major social issues. How would you feel if a group taught that you were “intrinsically disordered”?

Francis is not saying we ignore these teachings, but rather that we put more emphasis on the Gospel message. He is saying we need to speak first and foremost of God’s love for every person. If we want to be effective in evangelizing (bringing people to Christ) we have to meet them where they are.

He’s not softening the Church’s stance. He’s setting her priorities. The priority of the Catholic (universal!) Church is the salvation of souls. We can’t save souls if they stay away because they haven’t seen us showing love.
 
Seaoctopus said:
Wasn’t there another Francis who said that 👍

Interesting was the CNN flash on my phone vs. the actual interview in context.
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I thought the same thing… I saw the CNN notification on my phone (something like “Pope says the Church shouldn’t interfere with gay people”), then went online and read the interview.

Nope, CNN, that’s NOT what he said.
 
3000 babies murdered in the womb every day - in the US alone - and the Pope has nothing to say on their behalf?

Jesus said the world will hate his followers. What does it say about Pope Francis that the world loves him?
 
Baloo said:
While I’m in no way a supporter of Gay Marriage or Abortion, I do believe Pope Francis has a point. We are the Catholic church, here for the salvation of all mankind. We can’t ostracize people, they are human beings as well. Preaching against gay marriage and abortion until we’re blue in the face won’t lead others to the Catholic church, living a Catholic lifestyle and being an example for others however will, and with that brings an end to things like abortion and gay marriage.
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Have not heard a homily about gay marriage, contraception, abortion or sin of any kind since I reverted to the Catholic Church in 2005.
 
JohnPaul said:
3000 babies murdered in the womb every day - in the US alone - and the Pope has nothing to say on their behalf?

Jesus said the world will hate his followers. What does it say about Pope Francis that the world loves him?
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This.
 
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