Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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While I have not had time to read every - or even many - of the posts here, I feel like chiming in and speaking about the topic at hand.

I am a high-school teacher. I teach Moral Theology and Moral Philosophy to many teens. They know the Church’s stance on homosexuality and abortion. If you were to teach them merely the teachings of the Church on these matters, they will shut down. What they don’t need is another source of “don’t” and “should not”.

This does NOT mean that the truth is to be avoided. What it means is that the truth must be presented to a new generation. I recall reading an article by Eve Tushnet - actively Catholic with homosexual tendencies - at a recent event in D.C., which is my archdiocese. She mentions her disappointment with the Diocesan’s approach of Natural Law and philosophical principles this and that. Mind you, I agree with her, and I am also a philosopher. Reference: patheos.com/blogs/evetushnet/2013/09/bedrooms-and-bootstraps.html

We have lost a sense of our humanity in today’s world. Our culture immediately passes judgement on people and categorizes them into diverse groups, all the while claiming that it does no such thing. In high-school, teens are fit into categories of nerds, emos, jocks, gays and the like. It’s time we get rid of this language. What is lost is the identity of the person. People are not considered as humans, but as “types” of human, much like slavery or castes. Society views homosexuals almost as the the pariahs of the world and seeks to do justice by enabling them. Of course, society also does nothing to guide and direct anyone toward anything greater than themselves… and that is the great failure.

Interestingly enough, it we who limit ourselves, and our culture is keen on that point. By calling someone a homosexual, is a limit on a human. As if they can be nothing but this. All the while, I recall St. Thomas Aquinas who understood that what makes us human is our action. A human who does not engage in homosexual activity, is NOT a homosexual, they are a human being. I think this is what Pope Francis is getting at. Christ came to bring all humans to heaven, every last one is our brother and sister.

I will not pretend that the way in which I teach reaches every student. I wonder, much like St. Augustine, at how God moves some people at certain times, while others are not moved. However, I can tell you that my good Catholic students appreciate the Natural Law approach to homosexuality, while everyone else appreciates the other approach.

Students’ response to homosexuality is always the same, every year: “they’re not hurting anyone, what’s so wrong with it?” And right there is the crutch of every student. They don’t know what good is. They are all grandmothers (Flannery O’Connor reference here: pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~surette/goodman.html) I always approach from the perspective “if you tell someone to go live their lives a certain way, you better darn well be sure it’s good for them”. And there begins our journey.

I rarely find people who actually know the Church’s stance. Either they wonder why the Church is so harsh, or they are people who hate homosexuality for all the wrong reasons. How many students who think they are on the side of the Church, but in fact just abhor the action and the person. And how many parishioners will quote from the Bible, when that is the last source people are willing to accept as authority these days (Use the bible to back up what you’re saying, but if all you’ve got is a quote, that’s not deep enough). And how many Catholics engage in contraception, yet think they can turn around and condemn homosexuals?

It’s time we preached real love. Our local area is abounding in youth taking up the call to love God. People need to know how to act Catholic, not recite nor memorize the teachings. They need to know how to love. Our most important unit in Moral Theology is not Natural law, but Love. It is what makes us human. When people hear the Church’s stance on homosexuality, they think the Church is limiting love. To constantly go on and on about limiting it is the wrong direction. That is what - I think, at least - the Holy Father is referring to. He wants Catholics to live their faith, not just know it.

I realize that he also spoke about abortion, but honestly, it’s all in the same section: how we love with limit. Just like Adam and Eve, who limited their love for God by their first sin Our society knows how to limit love… Catholics need to put it back where it belongs: limitless. Pre-evangelization! Read this: patheos.com/blogs/evetushnet/2013/04/the-beauty-of-obedience.html Real, fresh obedience and how through real obedience, we aren’t limited by our own petty desires, but unlimited by following God.

Long-winded, I know, I know…
 
The interview doesn’t cause me to worry about the Pope at all. But there are 2 questions that I would like to ask the Pope so that I can understand what he means.
  1. What did he mean when he said that the church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules? I am sure we all have our own interpretations of it but I want to know what his is.
  2. When he said that it isn’t necessary to speak about abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods all the time, I would agree with this. However is he talking about the secular media? While that does get discussed here all the time I doubt he is even aware of CAF. I read a comment that Father Frank Pavone of PFL and he had lunch with the Pope and Father Pavone said not to worry about it.
One thing he said that I liked very much was the following paragraph:

When I read this it puts to rest the notion that one can vote for a Pro-Abortion President like say Obama because he will help the poor more than his/her opponent.

Consider also that the next day Cardinal Burke went public saying that Pelosi should be denied communion.
  1. There are so many wonderful things about the Catholic Church that we shouldn’t always focus on the “the letter of the law”…vs. the “spirit of the law”.
  2. The media are only as liberal as the conservative businesses that own them.
 
The media are only as liberal as the conservative businesses that own them.
Name which “conservative businesses” own

MSNBC
CNN
New York Times
USA Today
The Los Angeles Times
The Huffington Post
The Washington Post
 
There’s still no Biblical basis for voting pro-life.
There doesn’t need to be a biblical basis for voting pro-life. The reason for voting pro-life is is to reject practices that that are always evil and to uphold natural law in government law.
If anything, the threat of losing tax-exempt status has silenced and will silence American Catholic parishes.
No.
 
I disagree. It seems to me that a lot of the support of the Pope has been support in the form of saying that his interview didn’t really say anything notable or different than Benedict or any other pope.
If people can get beyond the hysterical emotionalism of secular news headlines they would realize that this Pope hasn’t said anything new.
 
While I have not had time to read every - or even many - of the posts here, I feel like chiming in and speaking about the topic at hand.

I am a high-school teacher. I teach Moral Theology and Moral Philosophy to many teens. They know the Church’s stance on homosexuality and abortion. If you were to teach them merely the teachings of the Church on these matters, they will shut down. What they don’t need is another source of “don’t” and “should not”.

This does NOT mean that the truth is to be avoided. What it means is that the truth must be presented to a new generation. I recall reading an article by Eve Tushnet - actively Catholic with homosexual tendencies - at a recent event in D.C., which is my archdiocese. She mentions her disappointment with the Diocesan’s approach of Natural Law and philosophical principles this and that. Mind you, I agree with her, and I am also a philosopher. Reference: patheos.com/blogs/evetushnet/2013/09/bedrooms-and-bootstraps.html

We have lost a sense of our humanity in today’s world. Our culture immediately passes judgement on people and categorizes them into diverse groups, all the while claiming that it does no such thing. In high-school, teens are fit into categories of nerds, emos, jocks, gays and the like. It’s time we get rid of this language. What is lost is the identity of the person. People are not considered as humans, but as “types” of human, much like slavery or castes. Society views homosexuals almost as the the pariahs of the world and seeks to do justice by enabling them. Of course, society also does nothing to guide and direct anyone toward anything greater than themselves… and that is the great failure.

Interestingly enough, it we who limit ourselves, and our culture is keen on that point. By calling someone a homosexual, is a limit on a human. As if they can be nothing but this. All the while, I recall St. Thomas Aquinas who understood that what makes us human is our action. A human who does not engage in homosexual activity, is NOT a homosexual, they are a human being. I think this is what Pope Francis is getting at. Christ came to bring all humans to heaven, every last one is our brother and sister.

I will not pretend that the way in which I teach reaches every student. I wonder, much like St. Augustine, at how God moves some people at certain times, while others are not moved. However, I can tell you that my good Catholic students appreciate the Natural Law approach to homosexuality, while everyone else appreciates the other approach.

Students’ response to homosexuality is always the same, every year: “they’re not hurting anyone, what’s so wrong with it?” And right there is the crutch of every student. They don’t know what good is. They are all grandmothers (Flannery O’Connor reference here: pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~surette/goodman.html) I always approach from the perspective “if you tell someone to go live their lives a certain way, you better darn well be sure it’s good for them”. And there begins our journey.

I rarely find people who actually know the Church’s stance. Either they wonder why the Church is so harsh, or they are people who hate homosexuality for all the wrong reasons. How many students who think they are on the side of the Church, but in fact just abhor the action and the person. And how many parishioners will quote from the Bible, when that is the last source people are willing to accept as authority these days (Use the bible to back up what you’re saying, but if all you’ve got is a quote, that’s not deep enough). And how many Catholics engage in contraception, yet think they can turn around and condemn homosexuals?

It’s time we preached real love. Our local area is abounding in youth taking up the call to love God. People need to know how to act Catholic, not recite nor memorize the teachings. They need to know how to love. Our most important unit in Moral Theology is not Natural law, but Love. It is what makes us human. When people hear the Church’s stance on homosexuality, they think the Church is limiting love. To constantly go on and on about limiting it is the wrong direction. That is what - I think, at least - the Holy Father is referring to. He wants Catholics to live their faith, not just know it.

I realize that he also spoke about abortion, but honestly, it’s all in the same section: how we love with limit. Just like Adam and Eve, who limited their love for God by their first sin Our society knows how to limit love… Catholics need to put it back where it belongs: limitless. Pre-evangelization! Read this: patheos.com/blogs/evetushnet/2013/04/the-beauty-of-obedience.html Real, fresh obedience and how through real obedience, we aren’t limited by our own petty desires, but unlimited by following God.

Long-winded, I know, I know…
👍
 
One of my favorite priests posted this on Facebook. It is a well written piece by Janet Smith:
firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/09/are-we-obsessed
In fact, Pope Francis’ own daily homilies that focus on greed, gossip, and laziness, for instance, completely won my heart. I saw that he realized that Catholics need to be reminded daily to let their faith influence every action of our lives—and he regularly invites people to confession. He often preaches about the reality of the devil. I wonder if he knows that American Catholics are as likely to use contraception and view pornography as they are to be greedy and to gossip. The devil has us in his grip there. Mention of those sins, too, need to be a regular part of homilies.
This is not to say that neither my friends nor I have anything to learn from what the Holy Father has said. While I said above that the people I am speaking of “radiate the love of Christ,” I must admit, and not slowly, that such is not always true. We get angry, impatient, dismissive, and self-righteous at times. We are not saints yet, just saints in the making. It is undoubtedly true that some of us love truth more than we love those we serve. That is not a Christian attitude. We need to truly approach each of those we attempt to serve with love for them, with a humble understanding that our approach is not always the best and most compassionate, and with the knowledge that God works patiently with each of us and that we must be patient too.
As Dave Sloan—a friend who is one of the best workers in the vineyard—stated in a post on Facebook: “People do not need to be convinced that they are lost, and they do not need to be convinced that they are wounded. All that is needed is for them to believe that they are known at a deep level and they are loved at a deep level. When they are convinced of these things they are ready enough to reveal their wounds and their sense of being lost. This is messy, and painfully difficult, and it is no surprise that those in the church who have grown comfortable hiding behind a didactic wall are howling that Pope Francis is tearing down that wall.” While I have my quibbles with what the Holy Father said, I think Dave captures the most important element of what he said. Those of us who love didactic certainty need to examine ourselves to strive constantly to ensure that our actions are motivated by love.
 
MSNBC is owned by Bill Gates. And he is a hardline leftist Obama supporter. They have a relationship where one hand washes the other.
Is Bill Gates involved?

MSNBC is owned by Comcast Corp CMCSA

Breakdown
% of Shares Held by All Insider and 5% Owners: 0%
% of Shares Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners: 85%
% of Float Held by Institutional & Mutual Fund Owners: 85%
Number of Institutions Holding Shares: 996

Major Direct Holders (Forms 3 & 4)
Holder Shares Reported
ROBERTS BRIAN L 456,001 May 16, 2013
BURKE STEPHEN B 553,182 Aug 5, 2013
COHEN DAVID L 81,111 Aug 29, 2013
ANGELAKIS MICHAEL J 188,249 Jun 28, 2013
ROBERTS RALPH J 217,586 Oct 31, 2012

Source: YAHOO
 
I was watching Fr Barron’s new movie “Catholicism the New Evangelization” and he addresses this very issue if evangelizing and “the hot button issues”. He makes the call of not leading with these issues long before the Pope’s interview.

In Fr Barron Style, I think his clear discussion can help all of you. I uploaded this 4 min clip to YouTube.

youtu.be/qzfSfhklQ88
 
As Pope Francis keeps reminding us, mercy is at the heart of Christ’s message, yet mercy can’t exist without, nor can it negate, justice. There’s no sense in forgiving someone for something that’s not wrong. And if there’s no objective measure of right and wrong, don’t we live under the “dictatorship of relativism”? (Yes, that is Pope Francis, not just Pope Benedict, talking.) So while some dissidents may think Francis wants to get rid of all those hard-to-keep, outdated rules of Christian morality and thereby eliminate the concept of sin as such, I’d still bet that he is on the side of “go and sin no more.” Janet Smith points out that Pope Francis may have unfairly caricatured those who have dedicated their lives to fighting abortion and other deeply unjust, damaging practices in order to bring others to Christ, while underestimating the timidity of many pastors and bishops on these issues. This is unfortunate and calls for clarification and action from the Holy Father. But our real outrage should be directed to others who seek to turn Church teaching on its head.
acton.org/global/article/letter-rome-what-kind-liberal-pope-francis
 
Interesting commentary.

Here is the problem with the argument: leading with grace is fruitless if you are talking to someone who sincerely believes that they are sinless.

Who in the world believes that they are without sin? Those who don’t believe in God (and those who do believe in a god without expectations of us). Without God there is no sin. Without sin there is no need for grace. And if there is no need for grace there is no need for anything the church has to offer.
 
Interesting commentary.

Here is the problem with the argument: leading with grace is fruitless if you are talking to someone who sincerely believes that they are sinless.

Who in the world believes that they are without sin? Those who don’t believe in God (and those who do believe in a god without expectations of us). Without God there is no sin. Without sin there is no need for grace. And if there is no need for grace there is no need for anything the church has to offer.
It doesn’t matter what ‘they’ believe.
What matters is the truth.
God bestows Grace upon us.
We, or they, don’t need to believe it… or understand it… to receive it.
 
It doesn’t matter what ‘they’ believe.
What matters is the truth.
God bestows Grace upon us.
We, or they, don’t need to believe it… or understand it… to receive it.
If God bestows grace upon us iresspective of what we believe or do then what is the point of the Church? What is the point of the sacraments? What is the point of evangilization?

If it doesn’t matter what “they” believe then why does it matter whether we talk about sin or grace first? Is grace trueer than sin?
 
All great questions. As a former Atheist, all I can say is I’m glad that Christians didn’t take the “leave the city and wipe off the dust approach.”
That was what Jesus told the apostles to do if the people of a city rejected their preaching.
 
The former, not the latter. Even though many people have said he has called for de-emphasis on moral matters such as same-sex “marriage” and abortion, if you look at the paragraph that dealt with this, you will see he said no such thing.
What disturbed people was that he said that the Church can’t be obsessed and insistent on the issues of abortion contraception and homosexual marriage. The suggestion that the Church as a whole is obsessed with these issues is false to begin with. Only a small minority of people in the Church devote themselves to pro-life issues. And it is a mistake to call them obsessed or to dissuade them from being insistent,as if working and praying against evil practices and laws and speading the gospel of life is a mental illness or somehow wrong.
 
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