Pope Breaks Silence on McCarrick: ‘I Knew Nothing, Nothing, Nothing’

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johnnykins . . .
I no longer trust any cleric I do not personally know - from a deacon right on up to Pope.
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This would be the inevitable result of “McCarricking-in” priestly and episcopal appointments.

We knew back in 2002 this broad distrust would occur due to those guys.

How much worse is it to know that to some extent, it was “business as usual” for the homosexual predators that are living out their objective disorder, within our Catholic priesthood (or for that matter the heterosexual predators).

I still do trust many of the clerics (certainly not “all”), but I won’t criticise you johnnykins for where you are at here.

It is very understandable, given the circumstances.

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What johnnykins says here should highlight to us all, the impotance of exposing and getting to “the root” of “McCarricking-in” priestly and episcopal vocations.

And then it needs to be cleaned up ASAP.

This will help the credibility/trust factor regarding the bishops . . . for those in the pews in the future.

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My only advice for others here is . . . Stay home!

Don’t leave the Church because of these guys.

Don’t let them “win” by chasing YOU out!

It is THEM that need to go (“go” from ministry. Not from the Church.). Not you.

It is Christ’s priesthood. Not their’s.

Christians have a share in the one priesthood of Jesus. Ministerial priests a deeper share. And bishops an even greater share of that ONE priesthood that Christ has.

So keep that all in perspective as you evaluate the times we live in.

Don’t allow these predators to chase you away from the one, true, Church that Jesus founded.

Jesus gave us Judas in part, so we can see beyond His bad ministers (in this case, ministerial priests and bishops).
 
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Does the Catholic laity have a role to play here? Or should we continue to pretend that nothing has happened?
 
ontheway1 . . .
Does the Catholic laity have a role to play here? Or should we continue to pretend that nothing has happened?
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I’ll break down your points here and address each one.
Does the Catholic laity have a role to play here?
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Yes I think they do. This involves the Church.
And the homosexual predators are victimizing people primarily in the Church. (And likewise the heterosexual predators are too.)
Or should we continue to pretend that nothing has happened?
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Who would suggest this?

No way should these attacks against children, seminarians, and other vulnerable adults or against anybody else be ignored.
 
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Yes, but how? Does anyone have experience with this? Some sort of parish committe?
 
ontheway1 . . .

Does the Catholic laity have a role to play here?

Cathoholic . . .
Yes I think they do. This involves the Church.
And the homosexual predators are victimizing people primarily in the Church. (And likewise the heterosexual predators are too.)
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ontheway1 . . .
Yes, but how? Does anyone have experience with this? Some sort of parish committe?
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This is a great question and my answer is I have no idea.

God is bringing us into some new territory here. Things sound worse than in St. Peter Damian’s day.

We will learn as we go along.

I recall listening to an audio by the late Fr. Groeschel talking about how bad the bishops were during the English Reformation.

How they had taken heterosexual concubines into their residences and did so quite openly.

And all the spiritual “nuclear fallout” from this that eventually occurred.

Perhaps we are seeing the homosexual equivalent of that in our day, perhaps not.

Time and more information will tell.

HOW do we proceed?

THAT is the question.

Certainly with prayer, fasting, and adoration. Frequenting the Sacraments as well.

Jesus will give us more detail in due time.
 
Our role can be monetary. I have no idea how I could give a single penny to the a blanket collection of the Church. I can fund certain apostates or projects or ministries but long gone are the days when you can throw a 20 in the basket and absolve yourself from any responsibility…
 
Cathoholic said:
Does the Catholic laity have a role to play here?
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By the laity following the commandments, spiritual and corporal works of Mercy, evangelism, working to elect prolife officials, opposing secularism in the media and education?

I realize this would take far more work than evaluating bishops, which the media wants us to focus on.
 
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commenter . . .
By the laity following the commandments, spiritual and corporal works of Mercy, evangelism, working to elect prolife officials, opposing secularism in the media and education?
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Yes of course.

As I also mentioned . . . .
Certainly with prayer, fasting, and adoration. Frequenting the Sacraments as well.
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commenter . . .
I realize this would take far more work than evaluating bishops, which the media wants us to focus on.
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I don’t know what the media wants us to focus on, but I recall Bishop Wilton Gregory telling people after the 2002 crisis, if the Bishops do not do their jobs in this sphere (and many have not), the laity would hold them publicly accountable.

He said this to “reassure” people the Bishops could police themselves.

A lot of people have been hurt by these guys.

Some of them right here on Catholic Answers Forums have been victims to a certain extent of these predators.

Just several months ago, another family came and told us they were leaving the Church because they too (the mom’s brother-remember these guys antics effect the whole family of who they attack) were victimized.

And too often the perp is not held accountable.

They are gone from the Church.

They are gone from the Church because of homosexual predation.

They are gone from the Church and this is yet another example of the very REAL consequences from these guys who have taken over some of the places of service, honor, and authority, and are receiving a paycheck from Catholic faithful to live out their objectively disordered lifestyle–in a sense “robbing from the purse”.

And it has to stop!
 
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There have always been corrupt bishops and priests. In the Catholic Church, popes, bishops, religious superiors deal with them.

I doubt if current bishops and priests are any worse than those of 50 or 200 years ago, or any worse than Protestant leaders now.

Laity can inform the process, and now sit on review commissions in every U S diocese. The media wants “the laity” to “take control”, which means follow the media direction. But the media is far more corrupt than the bishops.
 
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No one is talking here about some direct action agains anyone. But, why are you protesting so vehemently against the idea that the bishops themselves are not capable of dealing with the problems. VII documents called on the laity to be more involved in the affairs of the church. You seem to be frightened by the idea.
 
commenter . . . .
There have always been corrupt bishops and priests.
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But you cannot conclude that we should remain passive in the past or in the present (or future) merely because of “Judas bishops” have “always” been around.

Pope Francis never suggests that.
The Church never teaches that.
Hopefully you are not asserting this either (?).

There was way too much passiveness and clericalism (which the Pope condemns) with Mr. McCarrick (who belongs in jail).

Let’s not repeat these mistakes.
 
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Cathoholic said:
Does the Catholic laity have a role to play here?
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Personally, I thought the US bishops were going to institute independent review boards, which I think is necessary for any organization.

An employer thinks about the fact that this his best salesperson who has been accused… a school a favorite teacher or principal… a bishop a priest he has known and had responsibility for…

It is just very difficult for those within the organization to deal with accusations objectively. I think independent review boards are vitally needed.

That being said…
Cathoholic said:
Certainly with prayer, fasting, and adoration. Frequenting the Sacraments as well.
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I read this yesterday: If it were written on the threshold of every Catholic home; if it were stamped in letters of light on the sky above us, it would not be more certain than it is now that the world is passing through an ordeal, the results of which on the welfare of nations and of the progress of the Church, we do not --perhaps through our own fault – cannot at this moment conceive… Take any [Catholic] congregation… what and how much are we doing for the glory of God and the salvation of souls? What sacrifices are we making to save our country? to stay the progress of error and corruption? to ward off the anarchy… of all laws, human and divine, to which we are tending?

And that was written in 1873, almost 150 years ago.

I do not think it is mere coincidence that the rise of these heinous crimes coincided with the departure of many from the Church, and that prayer was declining before that.

IOW, it is vitally necessary for us to pray more for our priests and bishops.

So even if we do not see a role for ourselves in the world, we each can and ought to pray, fast, and give alms specifically for our priests.

I have a particular fondness for this prayer, which seems to poignantly show the needs of priests:

CATHOLIC CHURCH
Code: 
               PRAYER FOR PRIESTS
Keep them, I pray, dearest Lord,
keep them, for they are yours –
Your priests whose lives burn out before
Your consecrated shrine.
Keep them, for they are in the world,
though from the world apart;
When earthly pleasures tempt, allure–
shelter them in your heart.
Keep them, and comfort them in hours
of loneliness and pain,
When all their life of sacrifice
for souls seems but in vain.
Keep them, and O remember, Lord,
they have no one but you,
Yet they have only human hearts,
with human frailty.
Keep them as spotless as the Host.
that daily they caress;
Their every thought and word and deed,
choose, dearest Lord, to bless.
 
Prior to V2, the bishops we’re more closely supervised by the Vatican, by the Nuncio for their country, and by their metropolitan archbishop. After V2, the metropolitan became a ceremonial figurehead. Bishops weren’t really supervised, they had the Conference of Bishops, which was collegiality, no supervision.

In the diocese, laity and sisters were appointed to head diocesan departments, often as chancellor, and teach at the seminary.

If the diocesan bishop was less supervised himself, he really had less supervision of priests and seminaries, or diocesan departments.

Maybe all this horizontalism, this recent lay empowerment, didn’t cause the scandal, but it sure didn’t prevent it. The media constantly blames hierarchy for the church’s problems. I would say it is more the lack of it, for 50 years.
 
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Before V2 there was constant complaining by the liberals about the Curia micromanaging bishops. It was said they should be more peer accountable from their brother bishops. At the national conference, there is hardly any hierarchy, the auxiliary appointed last week is equal to the Cardinal Archbishop of NY. Vatican officials were made mere consultants. You only saw the Metropolitan for the bishop installation and funeral.

Accountability by committee is the worst accountability of all. What’s troubling about the McCarrick affair is that no one is clear who could have, or should have done something. Thus was not the case 1960.

You could say the same thing about bishops who promoted false doctrine, liturgical abuses, or irresponsible spending, such as the recent bishop in West Virginia. All these Dioceses had far more lay involvement than in 1960, but laity have multiple agendas of their own, good and bad.

Committees!
 
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I agree very much with the quote you posted, but I and many others are at a loss of how to do that. How? What power do we have to ensure the pope, religious, bishops and priests act as they should? The only ones we can control are ourselves. What exactly can we do?
 
We hold to the perennial teachings of the Church. We hold our Bishops and Priests to those same teachings by correcting, with charity, any teaching or statements not in keeping with the teachings of the Church. That requires fully educating ourselves on the Faith.
And we hold the purse strings. No one said this would be easy. It was not easy in any of the periods in the Church’s history when error ran rampant. But there have always been Saints who rose up to confront and correct.

And we Pray, Stay in a state of Grace, And pray even more.
 
I think ABP Sheen was responding to the trend for bishops, priests and sisters to act like laity. He wasn’t calling for laity to act like bishops and religious superiors.

Based on reading Sheen, I think he wanted mothers and fathers to fulfill their own, unique roles. He would have frowned on families where mother, father, child are all interchangeable. Same with nuns doing politics, priests who drink, swear, just so they can be just regular guys.

He wanted laity to remind bishops, priests, nuns to do their jobs, while the laity bring Christian values into politics, business, education.

Sheen was no fan of committees, which many on CAF are calling for.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to help me out here. I do appreciate that.
 
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