Pope calls Synod on the Family, Evangelization

[McCall1981]

(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis has announced the Third Extraordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops, which will held at the Vatican from October 5 to October 19, 2014. The theme of the Extraordinary General Assembly will be “The Pastoral Challenges of the Family in the Context of Evangelization.”

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/10/08/pope_announces_extraordinary_general_assembly/en1-735390

For a little more explanation of the upcoming Synod, from National Catholic Register:

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-calls-synod-on-the-family-evangelization

 

[sw85]

I wonder if they will address annulments at all.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I wonder if they will address annulments at all.

I am sure they will,

I hear one of the top issues is to find a mechanism for divorced and remarried Catholics to be able to return to communion. It is complex and a pastoral issue that many bishops want guidance and reform on.

Even the conservative position of allowing remarried couples to go to confession and live as brother and sister is not widely known/accepted.

 

[McCall1981]

I am sure they will,

I hear one of the top issues is to find a mechanism for divorced and remarried Catholics to be able to return to communion. It is complex and a pastoral issue that many bishops want guidance and reform on.

Even the conservative position of allowing remarried couples to go to confession and live as brother and sister is not widely known/accepted.

This makes it sound like they are just looking for a loophole to exploit, in order to get around the teaching without technically breaking it.

 

[sw85]

Yeah, I’m not sure what exactly can be done there, so I’m not sure it would take a lot of time.

 

[Jon_S_1]

This makes it sound like they are just looking for a loophole to exploit, in order to get around the teaching without technically breaking it.

I don’t think there are any loopholes. Just the truth and not. It’s a pastoral thing to help unify the church’s teaching.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Yeah, I’m not sure what exactly can be done there, so I’m not sure it would take a lot of time.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-calls-synod-on-the-family-evangelization

According to the Vatican, the Holy Father said at last week’s meeting that prominent themes such as family and matrimonial pastoral duties “will be the order of the day in the activity of the Church in the near future.” This is likely to include an examination of the Church’s pastoral approach to divorced and remarried Catholics in the Church — a subject often raised by Francis and Benedict XVI in the recent past.

 

[sw85]

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-calls-synod-on-the-family-evangelization

Yeah, I know that’s what on the agenda, I’m saying I don’t know what kind of pastoral solution could possibly exist. Do we readmit unrepentant adulterers to communion? Do we advise them to abandon their second families? Or do we simply coordinate more effectively our current response and try to head future issues off at the pass by, gulp, talking about marriage from the pulpit?

 

[McCall1981]

Yeah, I know that’s what on the agenda, I’m saying I don’t know what kind of pastoral solution could possibly exist. Do we readmit unrepentant adulterers to communion? Do we advise them to abandon their second families? Or do we simply coordinate more effectively our current response and try to head future issues off at the pass by, gulp, talking about marriage from the pulpit?

This is what I’m wondering. What exactly CAN they do? What exactly CAN’T they do?

Is the teaching that divorced/remarried cannot recieve the sacrament doctrine? If so, and it cannot be changed, then what pastoral solutions would they be looking at?

 

[YoungTradCath]

This is what I’m wondering. What exactly CAN they do? What exactly CAN’T they do?

Is the teaching that divorced/remarried cannot recieve the sacrament doctrine? If so, and it cannot be changed, then what pastoral solutions would they be looking at?

Exactly, I don’t get it, intellectually. (And we all know a rational understanding of the faith is not at all, not one lick, in conflict with being “pastoral.”)

 

[YoungTradCath]

PS also it deeply goes against my conscience to expect me to acknowledge two people as “married” if one of them is already married to his or her first/real spouse. I will not do it.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Ok how should the church address this situation:

Mother if five
Catholic
Married a catholic in the Catholic Church

Husband abandons her and the kids

Wife remarries (Should she have to choose between being destitute or an adulterer?)

Is she really an adulterer?

What about all the people who go to get communion every week who use birth control? 90% by some studies.

Is there a difference?

Is it possible for her to be remarried?

Should she be treated as an adulterer?

I am not certain that the current teaching is dogma. It may be a mixture of doctrine and discipline.

Regardless, it is something the church should look at, even if it is just to define it more clearly.

 

[McCall1981]

Ok how should the church address this situation:

Mother if five
Catholic
Married a catholic in the Catholic Church

Husband abandons her and the kids

Wife remarries (Should she have to choose between being destitute or an adulterer?)

Is she really an adulterer?

What about all the people who go to get communion every week who use birth control? 90% by some studies.

Is there a difference?

Is it possible for her to be remarried?

Should she be treated as an adulterer?

I am not certain that the current teaching is dogma. It may be a mixture of doctrine and discipline.

Regardless, it is something the church should look at, even if it is just to define it more clearly.

This is certainly true, but is it really that the teaching is unclear, or is it just that some people don’t like it?

 

[Jon_S_1]

This is true, but is it really that the teaching is unclear, or is it just that some people don’t like it?

My understanding is the bishops in Europe already give communion to remarried Catholics who confess their mistake. They don’t require them to abandon the new family unit.

So yes it seems there needs to be some clarity.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Ok how should the church address this situation:

Mother if five
Catholic
Married a catholic in the Catholic Church

Husband abandons her and the kids

Wife remarries (Should she have to choose between being destitute or an adulterer?)

Is she really an adulterer?

What about all the people who go to get communion every week who use birth control? 90% by some studies.

Is there a difference?

Is it possible for her to be remarried?

Should she be treated as an adulterer?

I am not certain that the current teaching is dogma. It may be a mixture of doctrine and discipline.

Regardless, it is something the church should look at, even if it is just to define it more clearly.

Well, the difference is that “remarriage” is always public. So just because lots of people use birth control, the Church should lie and say it’s okay? “Oops!! Paul VI and the Church screwed up REALLY bad!”

 

[McCall1981]

My understanding is the bishops in Europe already give communion to remarried Catholics who confess their mistake. They don’t require them to abandon the new family unit.

So yes it seems there needs to be some clarity.

Right, but arent they clearly breaking the teaching?

I mean, as far as I know the teaching is perfectly clear (someone correct me if Im wrong). Just because people violate it, doesnt mean its unclear.

If there is any ambiguity, I dont know what it is.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Right, but arent they clearly breaking the teaching?

I mean, as far as I know the teaching is perfectly clear (someone correct me if Im wrong). Just because people violate it, doesnt mean its unclear.

If there is any ambiguity, I dont know what it is.

I’m not sure you can say a large number of the magesterium are breaking a teaching. If a number of bishops who hold the power of the apostles are raising concern for lack of a better word, it should be discussed in council.

I think it should be noted that the Orthodox also hold different teaching on this issue, which makes me further think this is not a purely dogmatic or doctrinal issue.

 

[McCall1981]

I’m not sure you can say a large number of the magesterium are breaking a teaching. If a number of bishops who hold the power of the apostles are raising concern for lack of a better word, it should be discussed in council.

I think it should be noted that the Orthodox also hold different teaching on this issue, which makes me further think this is not a purely dogmatic or doctrinal issue.

You could be right about it being all, or partially, a discipline, I dont know for sure. But Bishops breaking a teaching doesnt change the teaching or make it right. I mean you could have Bishops that were pro-abortion or something, but it wouldnt change the teaching on abortion.

 

[Jon_S_1]

You could be right about it being all, or partially, a discipline, I dont know for sure. But Bishops breaking a teaching doesnt change the teaching or make it right. I mean you could have Bishops that were pro-abortion or something, but it wouldnt change the teaching on abortion.

I agree, but when we have a murky teaching (relatively speaking) and bishops who are trying to follow the church making different pastoral decisions. It is worth a discussion.

I wouldn’t say it’s mostly a discipline (divorce and remarriage), but perhaps how it’s handled is.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I agree, but when we have a murky teaching (relatively speaking) and bishops who are trying to follow the church making different pastoral decisions. It is worth a discussion.

I wouldn’t say it’s mostly a discipline (divorce and remarriage), but perhaps how it’s handled is.

The concept of annulment is logically sound. If a sacrament can happen, it can also not happen but look like it did.

Past that, how it is carried out in practice is a practical matter, I will admit. But I still cannot wrap my head around how you legitimately say it is okay for divorced and "re"married people to receive Communion any more than it is okay for people perpetually in any kind of sin to receive Communion. It just. does. not. work. in. my. brain.