Pope claims condoms could make African Aids crisis worse

[Mark77]

What does MSM stand for?

In any case, why should there be shock and horror over this? The Pope is doing the right thing by condemning condom usage. Condoms prevent the openness to life that is necessary for moral marital relations. Marital relations are meant to be open to life and unifying, condoms prevent this.

Mentally Shallow Media=MSM

It’s sad to see the term “media journalist” applied to partisan propagandist hacks who tell half-truths and outright lies to peddle their viewpoint.

Editorials are great, but when someone pretends to be “unbiased and only reporting the facts”, when just the opposite is true, the term FRAUD should be shouted from the roof tops.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

Mark

 

[RobbyS]

guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids

These stories are starting to grow on me. “Shock, horror, the Pope is actually Catholic”.

Codoms are a sacrament of the MSM religion. Never mind that raining them BY THE BILLIONS on the African population has resulted in the SPREAD of AIDS. The fact is that African men DO think of them as talismen. Modern superstitition meets with ancient superstittion.

 

[RobbyS]

No, abstinece is necessary, condoms, since they have a non-zero failure rate, will only delay infection, not prevent it.

What is irresponsibile is for an infected spouse to have sex with their partner at all, and to say otherwise would be false and immoral.

Sandie suffers from what I call the Planned Parenthood delusion: that human beings approach sex rationally. I am reminded of a story a teacher told me, about being responsible for a a few hundred junior high students who had to spend the night sleeping on the floor of a gym. They had to keep the lights on because otherwise the four supervising adults could never get any sleep. As it was, they had to make rounds keeping the boys out of the girls’ sleeping bags. “It was like herding bunny rabbits.”

Why is it that sophisticates are so naive about human nature?

 

[miguel]

No, abstinece is necessary, condoms, since they have a non-zero failure rate, will only delay infection, not prevent it…

Exactly. This a matter of probability. Anyone who paid attention in Algebra II would get this.

What is irresponsibile is for an infected spouse to have sex with their partner at all, and to say otherwise would be false and immoral.

I don’t blame the typical person ignorant of Algebra. I blame people who promote this genocidal ideology, unless, of course, they were asleep in Algebra. If that’s the case, they’re just negligent.

 

[oldcelt]

Sandie suffers from what I call the Planned Parenthood delusion: that human beings approach sex rationally. I am reminded of a story a teacher told me, about being responsible for a a few hundred junior high students who had to spend the night sleeping on the floor of a gym. They had to keep the lights on because otherwise the four supervising adults could never get any sleep. As it was, they had to make rounds keeping the boys out of the girls’ sleeping bags. "It was like herding bunny rabbits."
Why is it that sophisticates are so naive about human nature?

That is a great quote!

John

 

[miguel]

No, abstinece is necessary, condoms, since they have a non-zero failure rate, will only delay infection, not prevent it…

To illustrate, let’s say I have a revolver with 100 chambers. I load 5 of those chambers with real bullets. I then spin the cylinder like they do in the movies, hold the gun to my head, and pull the trigger. If I only do that once, the odds are pretty good (95%) that I won’t fire a real bullet. Anyone want to play? Now if I do this 100 times, 5 of those times will fire a real bullet. To maintain the same odds for all 100 firings that we started with, we have to replace any chamber that fires with another real bullet. Obviously, we’ll need at least 5 players to get through all 100 firings. Anyone want to play?

 

[jenlovesyu]

God bless our Pope

It isn’t that hard to stop having sex if you really make a strong effort. And with a threat such as AIDS, I don’t understand why people would take the risk in the first place. That latex junk (or non-latex for those who are allergic ) wont do squat. Those who advocate the use of them as protection seem to act like people can’t live without sex. I guess people just like acting like uncontrollable animals these days

 

[didymus]

On the day the Pope left NPR did a story and interviewed John Allen of the Nat’l Catholic Reporter (I can hear you all groaning but hold on).

When the reporter asked about the Pope’s stance on condoms and the spread of HIV Allen said, “You don’t really think anyone violates Church teaching by committing adultery and fornication but then doesn’t use a condom to please His Holiness? Give me a break!”

You could practically hear the reporter’s jaw drop.

 

[mpi]

That is inaccurate. The rate at which the infection is spreading in DC is currently higher (at 3%) than in Africa, but the per-capita number of infected in Africa is significantly higher. 2/3 of the world’s HIV positive population lives in Africa and 3/4 of the worldwide deaths from HIV are in Africa.

The reason that the infection rate in Africa has been decreasing is multifold. First, there has been a concerted effort for several years at education, not just on condom usage, but on how HIV is spread (many Africans are without basic medical knowledge and did not understand the concept of blood-borne infection). Second, they may be reaching the maximum rate of infection (i.e. most of those likely to be infected because of the risky behavior are in fact already infected).

Whereas the reason that HIV is spreading so rapidly in DC as compared to other areas may be due to the fact that there is an increased incidence of IV drug use and a tendency among African-American males (who are 50% of the DC population) to avoid using condoms.

PS: As a faithful Catholic, I was really disappointed to hear the Pope’s statement. First, there is absolutely no statiscal evidence that promoting the use of condoms increases the instances of sex outside of marriage. Moreover, it is irresponsible to tell a couple where one is infected and the other is not that using a condom during sexual relations is a sin. In such cases, condoms absoultely are necessary.

It must also be understood that African women have a legitimate need to use condoms, both to protect themselves from being infected by their husbands since male fidelity is not a cultural norm for them, nor is it culturally acceptable for a woman to deny sex to her husband. Furthermore, the level of poverty is so high, it is imperative to allow women some control over the number of children they have.

In a perfect world, condoms would not be necessary. But in the real world, which is far from perfect, especially in the poverty and disease stricken nation of Africa, condoms are not only acceptable but necessary.

OK “faithful Catholic” - get with the Chatechism. Condoms are evil.

 

[graceandglory]

guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids

These stories are starting to grow on me. “Shock, horror, the Pope is actually Catholic”.

---

The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church’s stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.

The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent’s fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.***

"The wisdom of God is foolishness to the world."

---

Let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19* For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20* and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
1 Cor. 3:18-20***

Reminds me of when Eve was told “C’mon, eat this fruit, you will know everything.”
We know how that turned out. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Nothing surprises me with the Liberal Ministry of Propaganda anymore. That is why they have no credibility and is going bankrupt or shutting down in many places.

Hey, Peregrinus, how do you get an internet signal hiding in a cave up there? I have a difficult enough time out in the open with no mountains around?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

There is common sense. Do you have any statistical evidence to the contrary - that condom use does not increase the instances of sex outside of marriage?

In such cases abstinence is absolutely necessary. Do you know just how much condom use prevents the risk of HIV infection? Perfect condom use reduces the risk of the transmission of HIV by five sixths. In other words, having sex with an HIV infected person and using a condom is basically playing Russian Roulette with AIDS. In such instances, HIV transmission to the uninfected partner is almost inevitable over time with perfect condom use.

Nor is condom use culturally acceptable.

If I were a woman and about to be raped by a man, then I would request he use a condom. I’m sure he wouldn’t comply, but if he did it would be a small mercy. In all other cases, condom use is contrary to the moral law.

By the way, I would have thought that a “faithful” Catholic would actually be **faithful **to the clear and unequivocal teachings of the Church.

AMEN.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I think the term, in general, refers to all the big mainstream media blocks, CNN, FOXNews, Reuters, MSNBC, etc, etc. In otherwords, all the present heavy weights, which do, last I checked, exist.

Fox news is not considered main stream media because they give equally conservative and liberals a chance to speak on their news shows…where as the others are simply totally biased liberal.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I don’t know what these people are getting so freaked out about. How many people in this world actually listen to what the Pope has to say anyways? To think that people having pre-marital/extramarital sex would refuse to use a condom because the Pope said not to is silly. But of course, I guess it’s more fun to blame the AIDS epidemic on the Pope that those truly responsible for this mess, isn’t it?

Even though I am NOT going to listen to the Pope and the Catholic Church’s teaching on sex outside of marriage…cuz I AM going to live with and often have sex with my boyfriend…but I am certainly NOT going to use a condom or the pill because the pope and Catholic Church say it is wrong.

Do you mean that this is NOT the norm all over the world? Does this mean that there may be other things at fault…not just the pope and the Catholic Church…for the possibility that I may get pregnant, or get infected with a sexually transmitted or blood transmitted disease?

Now you are telling me that I cannot blame the Pope and the Catholic Church.
Next you will be telling me that I am responsible for my behavior!!!
Awe man! What a rip off!!!

Can you read the sarcasm dripping from my keyboard?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

God bless our Pope

It isn’t that hard to stop having sex if you really make a strong effort. And with a threat such as AIDS, I don’t understand why people would take the risk in the first place. That latex junk (or non-latex for those who are allergic ) wont do squat. Those who advocate the use of them as protection seem to act like people can’t live without sex. I guess people just like acting like uncontrollable animals these days

For real. If I tell a man that I am infected with HIV, do you think he would have sex with me using a condom? By the way, I may be drop dead gorgeous, but that won’t change the fact that all he will want to do is look…certainly not touch. And that would be very intelligent on his part…no touching.
So why are we wanting to tell the people in Africa…and all over the world… that sex with a condom will prevent them from contracting horrible diseases.
Condom’s don’t always prevent pregnancies…and the HIV virus is much smaller than sperm or blood.

The fact is, condoms cost money…and those politicians and condom manufacturers do not care about people…they care about the money being made from condom sales.
Just like abortion promoters. They hold stock in abortion clinics all over the world. And as long as they are promoting abortions and people are continueing to go to the clinics…they will continue getting rich off of them.
Women who care about women are never going to promote abortion except in rare cases of rape or incest. And then it is done with a very heavy heart.

By the way…ABORTION IS ALWAYS WRONG…even in the cases of rape or incest!!!

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I would prefer that the Church gets out a true defense against sexual immorality rather than a pragmatic one. For the sexually immoral person condoms will always seem a pragmatic solution. To convert sinners I think the proper role of sexuality be taught: that it is procreative and unitive and that unitive aspect (spiritual, loving, physical) becomes subverted through immorality. That humans degrade themselves when they treat themselves and others as toys, without dignity.

If the Church could get her true teaching into the MSM conversation it would open a wedge for evangelization, because proper sexuality concerns how humans express love and God is love. His Church has the theology that supports this (Humanae Vitae)

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Isn’t this racist ot bigoted? Sexual morality is not applicable to third world people? They must have condoms? Wouldn’t the Pope be guilty of bigotry if he preached one message to Africa and another message on the pulpit?

I think the MSM is indulging in race or class discrimination by attacking the teaching only in concern to Africa as if poor third world people are animals who cannot be shown how to live properly.

 

[Mike700]

This sounds like the Vatican has released a revised statement.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901232.htm

 

[miguel]

I would prefer that the Church gets out a true defense against sexual immorality rather than a pragmatic one. For the sexually immoral person condoms will always seem a pragmatic solution. To convert sinners I think the proper role of sexuality be taught: that it is procreative and unitive and that unitive aspect (spiritual, loving, physical) becomes subverted through immorality. That humans degrade themselves when they treat themselves and others as toys, without dignity.

If the Church could get her true teaching into the MSM conversation it would open a wedge for evangelization, because proper sexuality concerns how humans express love and God is love. His Church has the theology that supports this (Humanae Vitae)

I don’t think it’s a this or that approach. It’s whatever works. Sometimes the sexually immoral person couldn’t care less what the Catholic Church has to say about what’s moral or immoral and why. The MSM typically paints the Church as backward in the area of sexual morality. It feeds on that stereotype. Promoting condoms to fight the spread of AIDS is dangerous and irresponsible. Alot of people have this disease and have died from it out of a false sense of security about condoms. And this truth can be shown by simple Algebra.

 

[averheyen]

The whole thing seems set up. Everybody KNOWS this is where Catholics stand on the contraception issue. Seems rather convient if you ask me that things just “happened” to blow up at the present moment.