Pope condones contraceptives for zika outbreak?

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LongingSoul said:
As tablefor9 mentioned above, the Pope only said that it’s not a sin to avoid pregnancy for legitimate reasons. That’s a perfectly Catholic truth. The problems come when radical Catholic agitators try to promote the sinfulness of avoiding pregnancy and planning families. They confuse the general public with what are essentially lies.

Bottom line. The Pope is correct.
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The majority of Catholic families use birth control, that is a fact. We just need to use our eyes to verify that fact. I cannot remember the last time I saw families with 7 children attending church.
 
eamonnroma said:
The majority of Catholic families use birth control, that is a fact. We just need to use our eyes to verify that fact. I cannot remember the last time I saw families with 7 children attending church.
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How does the percentage of Catholics using birth control determine whether an act is moral or not?
 
Biggie said:
Do I really have to have this level of sophistication to remain Catholic? So what I taught my daughters and practiced myself as a simple Catholic teaching is not a simple Catholic teaching? I need this level of nuance to teach it and defend it?

When a gynecologist told my daughter that she should have taken birth control pills to have prevented her gynecological problems that resulted in her infertility we were wrong to have rejected that out of hand? We were in the end to blame?

So couples who are in anguish over likely birth defect issues vs. the prohibition against birth control have tortured themselves over nothing? And people who defended the Church’s position on the use of condoms to prevent AIDS are now in the position of comparing the dangers of contracting a death dealing disease unfavorably to the dangers of conceiving a child with a birth defect?

How far are we from retreating to the “inner forum” on birth control to join those in the “inner forum” on divorce?

It has always been difficult to explain and uphold the Catholic position on birth control. It is more difficult today. And more difficult still to explain why the Pope has made this necessary.
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The teaching is not absolute as the Pope said. Defining that “relative” line will be increasingly difficult.
 
eamonnroma said:
The majority of Catholic families use birth control, that is a fact. We just need to use our eyes to verify that fact. I cannot remember the last time I saw families with 7 children attending church.
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:tsktsk:

There could be many reasons a couple hasn’t been blessed with many children. They could also be using NFP. I don’t think we should be so quick to judge. 👍
 
TMC said:
That remains the accepted wisdom.
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What I heard is that there were higher hormone levels in the earlier pills leading to adverse side effects and complaints from women, so they lowered the hormone levels to balance it out more. So yes, there was much less likely a chance of conception. However, by lowering the hormone levels, this means more “breakthrough” ovulations. Hormonal contraception, as I understand, inhibits ovulation, thickens cervical mucus, and thins the lining of the uterine wall. In short, it makes for a hostile environment should there be a breakthrough ovulation and a person is conceived.
 
eamonnroma said:
The majority of Catholic families use birth control, that is a fact. We just need to use our eyes to verify that fact. I cannot remember the last time I saw families with 7 children attending church.
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I know that the majority use contraception but that can’t be established by counting children. If that were the case, you would definitely put me down as a contracepter from your judgement seat as I only have 3 children. Yet I’ve accorded with Catholic teaching on chastity and openness to life my entire life. People are well within their conscience and Church teaching to limit their family in accordance with responsible parenthood, by periodic abstinence.
 
Biggie said:
Do I really have to have this level of sophistication to remain Catholic? So what I taught my daughters and practiced myself as a simple Catholic teaching is not a simple Catholic teaching? I need this level of nuance to teach it and defend it?

When a gynecologist told my daughter that she should have taken birth control pills to have prevented her gynecological problems that resulted in her infertility we were wrong to have rejected that out of hand? We were in the end to blame?

So couples who are in anguish over likely birth defect issues vs. the prohibition against birth control have tortured themselves over nothing? And people who defended the Church’s position on the use of condoms to prevent AIDS are now in the position of comparing the dangers of contracting a death dealing disease unfavorably to the dangers of conceiving a child with a birth defect?

How far are we from retreating to the “inner forum” on birth control to join those in the “inner forum” on divorce?

It has always been difficult to explain and uphold the Catholic position on birth control. It is more difficult today. And more difficult still to explain why the Pope has made this necessary.
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I am sorry to hear of your past experiences. But life is not simple. The Church doesn’t have a list of every situation and say X is wrong and Y is right. Some options when confronted with situations you describe is to seek advice from the National Catholic Bioethics Center or talking with your pastor.
 
Isn’t it somewhat unique for the Pope to use the phrase “the evil of avoiding pregnancy”?

Anyway, let’s start a countdown to the inevitable Jimmy Akin “9 things to know and share about Pope Francis and Contraception” article…

Dan
 
dans0622 said:
Here’s a translation…:

ncregister.com/daily-news/full-text-of-pope-francis-in-flight-interview-from-mexico-to-rome/

Dan
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After reading this, I think the Pope just didn’t answer the question very well.

Tragic that this is overshadowing some good stuff about the family and marriage in this.
As another is the preparation for marriage. Imagine, to become a priest there are eight years of study and preparation, and then if after a while you can’t do it, you can ask for a dispensation, you leave, and everything is OK. On the other hand, to make a sacrament (marriage), which is for your whole life, three to four conferences … Preparation for marriage is very important.
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Something I thought when looking back on my marriage prep, which was a joke over one day.

And
I know married Catholics in a second union who go to church, who go to church once or twice a year and say I want communion, as if joining in Communion were an award. It’s a work towards integration, all doors are open, but we cannot say, “from here on they can have Communion.”
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Well stated, Tantum Ergo.

Also, I love (hate?) the way the media will isolate a quote and then take gratuitous license with their conclusions. He said avoiding pregnancy is not an absolute evil. NFPers would agree 100%. That view is completely consistent with Humanae Vitae. HOWEVER, the qualifier is that the MEANS of avoiding pregnancy must be licit. Amazing how the newspapers leave that part out.:rolleyes:

Then the ignorant Catholics read this and think artificial birth control will soon be allowed, so why not start contracepting now? Then, when the Church gets backed into a corner and has to clarify the timeless teaching against ABC to a bunch of confused Catholics, everybody gets upset because they were given false expectations by the media.

I honestly think these stories are meant to disenfranchise the cafeteria Catholics and lessen the moral authority of the Church in the eyes of the world. This is because the RCC is the last moral authority on earth that stands between the average man and unbridled headonism.
 
Canon lawyer Ed Peters has commented about the Pope’s comments on the on-flight press interviews. Here is what Ed Peters has to say about Pope Paul VI:
Pope Paul VI, as I understand it, did approve of religious women threatened by rape using contraceptives. It is obvious, though, that such measures were taken in self-defense against criminal acts and, more importantly, would have occurred outside the context of conjugal relations. Avoiding pregnancy under outlaw circumstances is not only ‘not an absolute evil’, it’s not an evil act at all. I hope that mentioning this unusual episode in a press chat will not contribute unduly to the world’s misunderstanding of the limitations of Paul VI’s position in this case and of the episode’s non-applicability to Church firm teaching on contraception within marriage.
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canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/seven-quick-thoughts-on-the-most-recent-papal-presser/

And regarding “lesser of two evils”:
There is no legitimate “principle” by which a “lesser of two evils” may ever be licitly engaged in. It is fundamental moral theology that even a small evil action may never be licitly engaged in—no matter how much good might seem to result therefrom and no matter how much evil might seem to be avoided thereby. There are, to be sure, principles by which a good or neutral action that has two effects, one good and one evil, might be licitly engaged in under certain circumstances despite the evil effects; and there are principles by which “lesser evils” may be tolerated (not chosen). But parsing these matters accurately and responsibly requires more time than can be devoted to them in a press conference.
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But to be clear, the Holy Father is only condoning abstinence and NFP… NOT condoms, pills, or other forms of ABC?

Is this the way everyone reads it?
 
From what the articles quote, YES. To extrapolate from these meager quotes a relaxing of the teaching against contraception is intellectually dishonest at best - malicious at worst.
 
Biggie said:
Do I really have to have this level of sophistication to remain Catholic? So what I taught my daughters and practiced myself as a simple Catholic teaching is not a simple Catholic teaching? I need this level of nuance to teach it and defend it?

When a gynecologist told my daughter that she should have taken birth control pills to have prevented her gynecological problems that resulted in her infertility we were wrong to have rejected that out of hand? We were in the end to blame?

So couples who are in anguish over likely birth defect issues vs. the prohibition against birth control have tortured themselves over nothing? And people who defended the Church’s position on the use of condoms to prevent AIDS are now in the position of comparing the dangers of contracting a death dealing disease unfavorably to the dangers of conceiving a child with a birth defect?

How far are we from retreating to the “inner forum” on birth control to join those in the “inner forum” on divorce?

It has always been difficult to explain and uphold the Catholic position on birth control. It is more difficult today. And more difficult still to explain why the Pope has made this necessary.
Click to expand...
It’s not about a level of sophistication. It’s about docility.
Being at peace with what the Church teaches. Not worrying about what others are doing. Following with a quiet faith, in con-fide.

Consider that nothing the Pope said has changed the way we do things. Why be disturbed?
Maybe we have too much information.

Pardon me, I have to go dispute with someone on the astrophysics blog. In Italian.
 
dans0622 said:
Isn’t it somewhat unique for the Pope to use the phrase “the evil of avoiding pregnancy”?

Anyway, let’s start a countdown to the inevitable Jimmy Akin “9 things to know and share about Pope Francis and Contraception” article…

Dan
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I thought that strange too but then going back to the original Italian it was the journalist who introduced the phrase “avoiding pregnancy” (di evitare la gravidanza) as a secular way of saying “preventing” pregnancy. The journalist was talking about contraception and the Pope has answered in kind. The trouble with the secular understanding is that it’s been confused by radical Catholics who try and promote “avoidance” as being the essence of contraception… when it is really the prevention of conception within and act ofsexual intercourse.

I personally understood him to mean the evil of preventing a pregnancy ie contraception.
 
Don’t post here often, but in light of recent cringeworthy news maker Francis… this summarises my thoughts on him perfectly:

“Peter the Roman, who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations, and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills * will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The End.”*
 
eamonnroma said:
The majority of Catholic families use birth control, that is a fact. We just need to use our eyes to verify that fact. I cannot remember the last time I saw families with 7 children attending church.
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The child we lost due to miscarriage will be praying for you, as will all the children we likely conceived who for God only knows weren’t sustainable and my wife’s period showed up.

Now if I may be excused, I’m going to go play with the one child God chose for us to have as opposed to being judged for things beyond my control.
 
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