Pope condones contraceptives for zika outbreak?

[EmeraldOak]

Pope’s Words on Contraception in Accord With Magisterium, Philosophers Say, But Context Is Key

ncregister.com/daily-news/popes-comments-on-contraception-in-accord-with-magisterium-philosophers-say/

The headline itself is very telling: “Pope’s Words on Contraception in Accord With Magisterium, Philosophers Say, But Context Is Key”

And that is my concern with this entire matter and others. I am just a regular, ordinary person, not a philosopher. Not all of us can keep up with these technical nuances.

 

[JPUSC]

BREAKING NEWS:

ROME, February 19, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi has affirmed that the Holy Father was indeed speaking of “condoms and contraceptives” when on the flight back from Mexico, Pope Francis said couples could rightly “avoid pregnancy” in the wake of the Zika virus scare.

Fr. Lombardi told Vatican Radio today, “The contraceptive or condom, in particular cases of emergency or gravity, could be the object of discernment in a serious case of conscience. This is what the Pope said.”

According to Lombardi, the pope spoke of “the possibility of taking recourse to contraception or condoms in cases of emergency or special situations. He is not saying that this possibility is accepted without discernment, indeed, he said clearly that it can be considered in cases of special urgency.”

Lombardi reiterated the example that Pope Francis made of Pope Paul VI’s supposed “authorization of the use of the pill for the religious who were at very serious risk” of rape. This, said Lombardi, “makes us understand that it is not that it was a normal situation in which this was taken into account.”

lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-vatican-affirms-pope-was-speaking-about-contraceptives-for-zika

 

[EmeraldOak]

ROME, February 19, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi has affirmed that the Holy Father was indeed speaking of “condoms and contraceptives” when on the flight back from Mexico, Pope Francis said couples could rightly “avoid pregnancy” in the wake of the Zika virus scare.

Fr. Lombardi told Vatican Radio today, “The contraceptive or condom, in particular cases of emergency or gravity, could be the object of discernment in a serious case of conscience. This is what the Pope said.”

According to Lombardi, the pope spoke of “the possibility of taking recourse to contraception or condoms in cases of emergency or special situations. He is not saying that this possibility is accepted without discernment, indeed, he said clearly that it can be considered in cases of special urgency.”

Lombardi reiterated the example that Pope Francis made of Pope Paul VI’s supposed “authorization of the use of the pill for the religious who were at very serious risk” of rape. This, said Lombardi, “makes us understand that it is not that it was a normal situation in which this was taken into account.”

lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-vatican-affirms-pope-was-speaking-about-contraceptives-for-zika

I didn’t realize that that’s what the Pope said. I am not trying to be difficult. This is truly hard to understand. So according to the Pope, I am free to discern together with my husband, if our consciences would allow us to contracept for a few months while I am on the birth defect causing medication I am taking?

 

[Micosil]

The headline itself is very telling: “Pope’s Words on Contraception in Accord With Magisterium, Philosophers Say, But Context Is Key”

And that is my concern with this entire matter and others. I am just a regular, ordinary person, not a philosopher. Not all of us can keep up with these technical nuances.

That is indeed understandably part of the problem, as the article says:

The U.S. professor said he felt it was “understandable” that Pope Francis was “misunderstood because he presumed a thorough understanding of the Church’s tradition in order to properly interpret his words, but for those who don’t have that understanding, they could have ended up being misled or even confused by what he said.”

But what I will say is, instead of harsh condemnation of the Holy Father (not saying you’re condemning him, just speaking in general), the most prudent thing to do is to always see the whole quote in context, understand the Magisterium’s teachings, see if there’s been any potential for errors in translation, etc., and then and only then decide if what the Pope said falls within orthodoxy or heterodoxy.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

BREAKING NEWS:

ROME, February 19, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi has affirmed that the Holy Father was indeed speaking of “condoms and contraceptives” when on the flight back from Mexico, Pope Francis said couples could rightly “avoid pregnancy” in the wake of the Zika virus scare.

Fr. Lombardi told Vatican Radio today, “The contraceptive or condom, in particular cases of emergency or gravity, could be the object of discernment in a serious case of conscience. This is what the Pope said.”

According to Lombardi, the pope spoke of “the possibility of taking recourse to contraception or condoms in cases of emergency or special situations. He is not saying that this possibility is accepted without discernment, indeed, he said clearly that it can be considered in cases of special urgency.”

Lombardi reiterated the example that Pope Francis made of Pope Paul VI’s supposed “authorization of the use of the pill for the religious who were at very serious risk” of rape. This, said Lombardi, “makes us understand that it is not that it was a normal situation in which this was taken into account.”

lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-vatican-affirms-pope-was-speaking-about-contraceptives-for-zika

But wait, the spokesman didn’t use the modern vernacular of “rubbers” so he obviously meant that in the Mayan language condom, means nfp? Right…

 

[LongingSoul]

I didn’t realize that that’s what the Pope said. I am not trying to be difficult. This is truly hard to understand. So according to the Pope, I am free to discern together with my husband, if our consciences would allow us to contracept for a few months while I am on the birth defect causing medication I am taking?

That is a Lifesite News opinion piece which doesn’t link to a transcript of Fr Lombardi’s words. Links to Lifesite news are regularly deleted from here because of its offness. I will just wait for a credible presentation of what he is saying complete with honest context.

 

[JPUSC]

That is a Lifesite News opinion piece which doesn’t link to a transcript of Fr Lombardi’s words. Links to Lifesite news are regularly deleted from here because of its offness. I will just wait for a credible presentation of what he is saying complete with honest context.

They did link to the original source from Vatican Radio:
it.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/02/19/p_lombardi_commenta_i_temi_del_papa_con_i_giornalisti/1209799

“The Pope then distinguishes clearly the radical nature of the evil of abortion as the taking of a human life and on the other hand the possibility of recourse to contraception or condoms as may relate to cases of emergency or special situations, where then do not suppress a human life, but a pregnancy is avoided. Now it is not that he says that is accepted and used this action without any discernment, indeed, made it clear that can be considered in cases of special urgency. The example that has made Paul VI and the authorization to use the pill to the religious who were at very serious risk, and ongoing violence by the rebels in the Congo, to the times of the Congo war tragedies, suggests that it is not that it was a normal situation in which this was taken into account. And also - remember for instance - the discussion followed a passage from the book of Benedict XVI interview “Light of the World”, in which he spoke about the use of condoms in situations at risk of infection, for example, AIDS. Then the contraceptive or condom, especially in cases of emergency and severity, may also be the subject of a serious discernment consciousness. This says the Pope.” (Google Translate)

• Fr. Federico Lombardi

Original Italian:
“Il Papa distingue poi nettamente la radicalità del male dell’aborto come soppressione di una vita umana e invece la possibilità di ricorso a contraccezione o preservativi per quanto può riguardare casi di emergenza o situazioni particolari, in cui quindi non si sopprime una vita umana, ma si evita una gravidanza. Ora non è che lui dica che vada accettato e usato questo ricorso senza nessun discernimento, anzi, ha detto chiaramente che può essere preso in considerazione in casi di particolare emergenza. L’esempio che ha fatto di Paolo VI e della autorizzazione all’uso della pillola per delle religiose che erano a rischio gravissimo e continuo di violenza da parte dei ribelli nel Congo, ai tempi delle tragedie della guerra del Congo, fa capire che non è che fosse una situazione normale in cui questo veniva preso in considerazione. E anche - ricordiamo per esempio – la discussione seguita ad un passo del libro intervista di Benedetto XVI “Luce del mondo”, in cui egli parlava a proposito dell’uso del condom in situazioni a rischio di contagio, per esempio, di Aids. Allora il contraccettivo o il preservativo, in casi di particolare emergenza e gravità, possono anche essere oggetto di un discernimento di coscienza serio. Questo dice il Papa.”

 

[LongingSoul]

They did link to the original source from Vatican Radio:
it.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/02/19/p_lombardi_commenta_i_temi_del_papa_con_i_giornalisti/1209799

“The Pope then distinguishes clearly the radical nature of the evil of abortion as the taking of a human life and on the other hand the possibility of recourse to contraception or condoms as may relate to cases of emergency or special situations, where then do not suppress a human life, but a pregnancy is avoided. Now it is not that he says that is accepted and used this action without any discernment, indeed, made it clear that can be considered in cases of special urgency. The example that has made Paul VI and the authorization to use the pill to the religious who were at very serious risk, and ongoing violence by the rebels in the Congo, to the times of the Congo war tragedies, suggests that it is not that it was a normal situation in which this was taken into account. And also - remember for instance - the discussion followed a passage from the book of Benedict XVI interview “Light of the World”, in which he spoke about the use of condoms in situations at risk of infection, for example, AIDS. Then the contraceptive or condom, especially in cases of emergency and severity, may also be the subject of a serious discernment consciousness. This says the Pope.” (Google Translate)

• Fr. Federico Lombardi

Original Italian:
“Il Papa distingue poi nettamente la radicalità del male dell’aborto come soppressione di una vita umana e invece la possibilità di ricorso a contraccezione o preservativi per quanto può riguardare casi di emergenza o situazioni particolari, in cui quindi non si sopprime una vita umana, ma si evita una gravidanza. Ora non è che lui dica che vada accettato e usato questo ricorso senza nessun discernimento, anzi, ha detto chiaramente che può essere preso in considerazione in casi di particolare emergenza. L’esempio che ha fatto di Paolo VI e della autorizzazione all’uso della pillola per delle religiose che erano a rischio gravissimo e continuo di violenza da parte dei ribelli nel Congo, ai tempi delle tragedie della guerra del Congo, fa capire che non è che fosse una situazione normale in cui questo veniva preso in considerazione. E anche - ricordiamo per esempio – la discussione seguita ad un passo del libro intervista di Benedetto XVI “Luce del mondo”, in cui egli parlava a proposito dell’uso del condom in situazioni a rischio di contagio, per esempio, di Aids. Allora il contraccettivo o il preservativo, in casi di particolare emergenza e gravità, possono anche essere oggetto di un discernimento di coscienza serio. Questo dice il Papa.”

But that doesn’t support what Lifesite News is saying. They say “the Holy Father was indeed speaking of “condoms and contraceptives” when on the flight back from Mexico, Pope Francis said couples could rightly “avoid pregnancy” in the wake of the Zika virus scare.”

Fr Lombardi very clearly says the Pope was addressing the journalists question that put abortion on a sliding scale with contraceptives. That ‘sliding scale’ trick is one that undermines peoples understanding of and defense against true evil. You see it all the time on CAF with those who proclaim that NFP can qualify as the intrinsic evil of contraception.

Pope Francis was addressing that when he was speaking of the nature of contraception… not that couples “could rightly” use contraception “in the wake of the Zika virus scare.”

Abortion is a crime. The crime of murder. It can never be a solution… where as contraceptives can serve other purposes in addressing medical or safety concerns in emergency situations like the Congo nuns or male prostitution.

From the google translation I attempted, the whole first part of Fr Lombardis comments were directed towards clarifying the context of Pope Francis response to a particular question.

The Zika virus is then addressed towards the end…

"Then the Pope insisted that of course we must try to develop all scientific research, vaccines, in order to combat this epidemic and this risk of Zika virus, which is causing so much concern, and therefore necessary that we do not fall into panic and then in to take the guidelines or decisions that are not proportionate to the reality of the problem. So understand well the nature of the problem, continue to study it, to also react with the search, to find the most substantial and stable solutions; however, avoid an abortion and, if there were any major emergencies, then a well-formed conscience can see if there are any possibilities or need for use of non-abortifacient to prevent pregnancy. "

He specifically indicates that the Zika problem needs more investigation so that we don’t take measures out of proportion to the problem and resort to a solution not warranted according to “severe emergency or special situations”. He says***** if *there are any ‘major emergencies’ it’s possible to discern a solution through a well formed conscience that amounts to preventing pregnancy… but there is nothing that could justify abortion.

Certain journalists and even amateur commentators will be answerable to God one day for their efforts to distort truth and lead people astray. They work for someone who is definitely not God related.

 

[Usige]

"Then the Pope insisted that of course we must try to develop all scientific research, vaccines, in order to combat this epidemic and this risk of Zika virus, which is causing so much concern, and therefore necessary that we do not fall into panic and then in to take the guidelines or decisions that are not proportionate to the reality of the problem. So understand well the nature of the problem, continue to study it, to also react with the search, to find the most substantial and stable solutions; however, avoid an abortion and, if there were any major emergencies, then a well-formed conscience can see if there are any possibilities or need for use of non-abortifacient to prevent pregnancy. "

He specifically indicates that the Zika problem needs more investigation so that we don’t take measures out of proportion to the problem and resort to a solution not warranted according to “severe emergency or special situations”. He says***** if *****there are any ‘major emergencies’ it’s possible to discern a solution through a well formed conscience that amounts to preventing pregnancy… but there is nothing that could justify abortion.

I think it is that last sentence that I feel uneasy with. It seems to read that “in emergencies or special situations” that non-abortifacient contraceptives (I assume condoms form the earlier context) might be permissible with careful dicernment. Humanae Vitae said that any act that sterilized marital intercourse “as a means, or an ends” was not to be considered. Father Lombardi’s clarification seems to leave open the possibility that sterilizing the act might be an acceptable means in certain unusual circumstances. You’ll note that it is not clear if the Pope or Father Lombardi consider Zika one of thsoe emergencies or special circumstaances and no where does he speak to NFP or abstinence as the non-abortifacient means. So yes he rules out abortion, but seems to leave open a crack to non-abortive means.

I was reading an article from Dec 29, 1961 that questioned if the theologians that agreed that the pill could be used for extraordinary circumstances, why it wouldn’t be permissible to extend those special circumstances to the areas lain out by Pius XII in 1930 (e.g. serious medical, eugenic, economic, or social reasons). Note this was 2 years before Paul VI ascended and 4 years before Humanae Vitae. I suspect this will just reignite that debate and those sitting on the fence may see this as the permission they need to contracept. Right or wrong that will likely happen.

I simply wish that the Holy Father would be succinct and clear when answering these questions. The answer to the reporters question should have been “No, abortion and contraception are never permissible to combat human trials and tribulations. Next question.” If they wanted to ask follow ups about the Nuns in the Congo, etc. then fine. (By the way articles from 1961 and 1962 indicate that no nuns were actual raped during that time)

 

[Megan7]

It must be hard being jimmy akin these days.

(Yes, it must be )

Regarding his issue about contraception in the Congo. As has been pointed out by me for all those saying like jimmy that they can find no primary source one has just been given. The pope. Who said it happened… That it has not been made public till now is of no matter.

Hoosier Daddy, I always enjoy reading your posts, many thanks! Please do not despair God bless you & yours.

I thought you might enjoy reading this:

** Humanae Vitae:
**

"Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid

a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good, it is ** never lawful, even for the

gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it ** —in other words, to intend

directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must

therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote

the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general."

---

Oh, and the Congo case was prior to our discovery that the pill is essentially an abortifacient. Something to think about…

What is also interesting is that in the Latin American countries where Zika is a problem,
high Clerics within the Church have stated that this is not an excuse to use contraceptives.

Of course, they said this prior to the Holy Father’s statements (on an airplane).

+Pax

 

[lax16]

But wait, the spokesman didn’t use the modern vernacular of “rubbers” so he obviously meant that in the Mayan language condom, means nfp? Right…

Is it possible, and I mean this with all due respect to Pope Francis, that he’s going senile?

I ask this because I am not sure if being pope precludes one from this condition? I don’t think so but just wanted to put it out there.

I mean no disrespect to Pope Francis. He is human after all.

 

[cjaubert]

Does anyone have a source for LifeSiteNews’ “breaking news” story? My initial guess is, it’s their spin, not reality. Else, it would be somewhere else besides their website. Help anyone?

 

[TMC]

The Pope is not senile, or unclear, or heretical. He is saying that it is sometimes morally acceptable to use contraception, and that the zika virus is such a situation. That should be neither hard to understand or to accept.

 

[cjaubert]

The Pope is not senile, or unclear, or heretical. He is saying that it is sometimes morally acceptable to use contraception, and that the zika virus is such a situation. That should be neither hard to understand or to accept.

It is never morally acceptable to use contraception - that’s what “intrinsically evil” means.

 

[TMC]

It is never morally acceptable to use contraception - that’s what “intrinsically evil” means.

The Pope disagrees, obviously.

 

[abucs]

Is it possible, and I mean this with all due respect to Pope Francis, that he’s going senile?

I ask this because I am not sure if being pope precludes one from this condition? I don’t think so but just wanted to put it out there.

I mean no disrespect to Pope Francis. He is human after all.

No i don’t think the pope is going senile. I think he talks to certain reporters who want to get him to say Liberal things. Our pope seems to be very obliging in such interviews.

I don’t think that the pope said anything against Catholic dogma but that is not the point. The point is that what was said can be used in other contexts to attack dogma. The pope should be aware of this when he talks to reporters. Perhaps he is. That is the concern.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The Pope disagrees, obviously.

I’ll wait to hear what the Pope says about contraceptives when it is not ‘off-the-cuff’ and reported in a twisted manner by the MSM. Until then, as far as I’m concerned, the Pope is the Holy Father who upholds the teaching of Christ through the Holy Spirit, the Church, and the Magesterium, and to my knowledge, that teaching is that artificial birth control (which is what most people mean by 'contraception) is morally sinful under all circumstances, including the “Zika outbreak”.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The Pope disagrees, obviously.

Yes and I think the pope is wrong, but all this explaining and twisting the popes words or trying to deny what he meant has got to stop. It is demeaning to His Holiness and it is in fact more respectful to disagree with him rather than think he is incompetent, bullied by the media or unaware of how his comments are taken. He is a head of state and a leader of a church who speaks firmly and matter of factly, on a number of issues he is more educated about than people are giving him credit for.

I am getting sick of people taking the liberty of saying “what he really meant was…”

Perhaps he just says and believes things that I or other Catholics do not.
I notice that my parish pays no mind to BXVI on matters of liturgical music and that was an actual document. So, I think I can realize the pope is not invoking infallibility and I can think he is (gasp). Wrong. One can do so with respect and obedience to the church and the office of the papacy.

 

[TMC]

I’ll wait to hear what the Pope says about contraceptives when it is not ‘off-the-cuff’ and reported in a twisted manner by the MSM. Until then, as far as I’m concerned, the Pope is the Holy Father who upholds the teaching of Christ through the Holy Spirit, the Church, and the Magesterium, and to my knowledge, that teaching is that artificial birth control (which is what most people mean by 'contraception) is morally sinful under all circumstances, including the “Zika outbreak”.

Well, the Vatican spokesman has already confirmed his statement. You can wait, but the Pope said what he said, and it seems like he meant it.

 

[TMC]

Yes and I think the pope is wrong, but all this explaining and twisting the popes words or trying to deny what he meant has got to stop. It is demeaning to His Holiness and it is in fact more respectful to disagree with him rather than think he is incompetent, bullied by the media or unaware of how his comments are taken. He is a head of state and a leader of a church who speaks firmly and matter of factly, on a number of issues he is more educated about than people are giving him credit for.

I am getting sick of people taking the liberty of saying “what he really meant was…”

Perhaps he just says and believes things that I or other Catholics do not.
I notice that my parish pays no mind to BXVI on matters of liturgical music and that was an actual document. So, I think I can realize the pope is not invoking infallibility and I can think he is (gasp). Wrong. One can do so with respect and obedience to the church and the office of the papacy.

I certainly agree with you as far as people denying the Pope means what he says. It is both disrespectful and demeaning to suggest that the Pope does not realize the import of his own words. In this case, I agree with him, but I understand that some don’t. I guess I am fortunate in some respects in that I have long believed the Pope was wrong about a number of things (and the last Pope, too). I have done that with respect, I hope. Maybe the experience of disagreeing with the Pope will give some so-called “traditional” Catholics some sense of what so-called “progressive” Catholics have felt for years.