Pope considering push to canonize Pius XII? [CWN]

  • Thread starter Thread starter CWN_News
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
As I understand it the idea behind canonisation is to hold up people of exemplary holiness as inspirations for the faithful. Beyond the possibility that what we call miracles may be attributable to factors, mental or otherwise, which we do not yet understand, the formal canonisation of ‘controversial’ candidates could bring the Church into disrepute. While I agree that the Church should not be constrained in these matters by whom it might offend, it should nonetheless be cognisant of the effect such decisions might have on people struggling with their faith.

Everybody knows that the Church covered up clerical child abuse and it would seem that recent Popes have been complicit in that. Do we wish to add to the hurt caused by those failings by canonising those suspected of cover up. This is a particularly hot topic with critics here in Ireland. The Popes themselves don’t need canonisation if they are already in Heaven. Why bring more opprobrium down on our heads when we don’t need to?

Michael
Teaching that homosexual relations is a sin also could and does bring the Church into disrepute. Teaching that women are not able to be ordained also could and does bring the Church into disrepute. Political correctness is a modern phenomena and not a virtue. :rolleyes: Those who hate the Church will always have plenty of reasons to hate It.
 
9.** ? 1940’s It was not immediately obvious to world just how bad the Jews were being treated. About 6 million were put to death. From early 1942 until late 1944, transport trains delivered 1.3 million people to the Nazi concentration camps at Auschwitz, around 90 percent of them Jewish.**

10. 1940 Seven years after the Concordat – Jewish physicist Albert Einstein praises the Church as being the only one who stood in the way of Hitler and the oppression of freedom.

11.
** 1943 – 1944 Pope Pius XII works directly to help save the Jews in Rome. See physical documentation from 1943 below.**
Hitler was under no illusions about the Catholic Church’s opposition to his regime:

Should we decide to recall our present representative from the Vatican, I can see no adequate reason for sending any fresh incumbents to this Embassy. The relations between Germany and the Vatican are based on the Concordat. But this same Concordat is no more than the survival of agreements reached between the Vatican and the different German States, and with the disappearance of the latter and their incorporation in the German Reich, it has become obsolete. It is true that it has as its basis these various agreements, but it is a confirmation of past agreements rather than a current agreement in force. (#248 4 July 1942, at dinner)

…I have shown myself unresponsive to the attempts of the Vatican towards extension of the provisions of the Concordat to embrace the newly acquired territories of the Reich. The Saar, Sudetenland, Bohemia and Moravia, the Reichsgau Danzig-East Prussia, the Warthegau, a large part of Silesia and Alsace-Lorraine have, in fact, no relations with the Roman Catholic Church which are supported by international agreement. In those territories, therefore, Church affairs must be settled locally. If the Papal Nuncio seeks audience of the Foreign Office and tries through this channel to gain some say in religious developments in the new territories, his advances must be rejected. (#248, 4 July 1942, at dinner)

Once the war is over we will put a swift end to the Concordat. It will give me the greatest personal pleasure to point out to the Church all those occasions on which it has broken the terms of it. One need only recall the close cooperation between the Church and the murderers of Heydrich. Catholic priests not only allowed them to hide in a church on the outskirts of Prague, but even allowed them to hide in a church on the outskirts of Prague, but even allowed them to entrench themselves in the sanctuary of the altar. (#248, 4 July 1942, at dinner)

Not only the history of the past, but also present times afford numberless examples of the very hard-boiled diplomats to be found in the service of the Catholic Church, and how extremely cautious one must be in dealing with them. (#248, 4 July 1942, at dinner)

The fact that I remain silent in public over Church affairs is not in the least misunderstood by the sly foxes of the Catholic Church, and I am quite sure that a man like the Bishop von Galen knows full well that after the war I shall extract retribution to the last farthing. And, if he does not succeed in getting himself transferred in the meanwhile to the Collegium Germanicum in Rome, he may rest assured that in the balancing of our accounts, no “T” will remain uncrossed, no “I” undotted! The attitude of the Bishop von Galen affords just one more argument in favor of terminating the Concordat after the war, substituting for it regional regulation and the immediately withholding from the Church the financial support at present guaranteed to it by that treaty. (#248, 4 July 1942, at dinner)

I have numerous accounts to settle, about which I cannot think today. But that doesn’t mean I forget them. I write them down. The time will come to bring out the big book! …One acts more shrewdly when one bides one’s time…When I read of the speeches of a man like Galen, I tell myself that there’s no point in administering p(name removed by moderator)ricks, and that for the moment it’s preferable to be silent. (#52, 25 October 1941, evening)

The great ambition of the parson clique is, and always has been, to undermine the power of the State. And for as long as we suffer these parsons in our midst, it serves us right! Every country gets the type of parson it deserves, at the moment I can do nothing about it, and so I shall continue to keep them happy. But one of these days, I shall bring this conflict, as old as Germany itself, to an abrupt and decisive conclusion. I’ll make these damned parsons feel the power of the State in a way they would never have dreamed possible! For the moment I am just keeping my eye on them; if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head wherever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on wherever it does so. (#287 - 11 August 1942 - Evening)

Methods of persuasion of a moral order are not an effective weapon against those who despise the truth - when we have to do with priests, for example, of a Church who know that everything about it is based on lies, and who live by it. They think me a spoilsport when I rise up in their midst, indeed, I am going to spoil their little games. (#52, 25 October 1941, evening)
 
There’s also the third power - the Vatican. Don’t forget that! Why be surprised if our confidential letters are broadcast to the world a few days after being received? (#132, 3 January 1942, evening)

The established religions, and particularly the Catholic Church, are adepts at presenting an innocent mien and in flattering the man in power. I myself experienced this when, shortly after assuming power, I received a visit from the Bishop Bertram. He brought me the good wishes and the homage of the Catholic clergy with such unction that, had I not known differently from bitter personal experience, I would not have believed it possible that a single National Socialist could have been excluded from the Church on account of his convictions, or could have been persecuted, and even execrated after death.
(#236, 7 June 1942, at dinner)

In Venice, in 1934, the Duce once said to me: “One of these days the Pope will have to leave Italy; there is not room for two Masters!” (#275, 1 August 1942 - evening)

The foulest of the carrion are those who come clothed in the cloak of humility, and the foulest of the foul is Count Preysing! What a beast! The Popish inquisitor is a humane being in comparison. Vileness and hypocrisy walk arm in arm; both must be extirpated. The uselessness of these parsons is nowhere better illustrated than here at the front. Here we have enemies who are dying by the million - and without a single one of these liars. The Catholic Church has but one desire, and that is to see us destroyed. (#287 - 11 August 1942 - Evening)
 
I have to take exception to this generalization. I’ve studied and taught the Holocaust for over a decade. I’ve studied with colleagues, scholars, and survivors who represent many nations and faiths. I am not a mindless sheep and my career is based on checking facts. I would simply say that there will be no definitive period put on Pius XII’s sentence until the archives are opened. This isn’t a particularly shocking or extreme claim. It’s prudent.
While awaiting the release of the Vatican historical archives pertaining to the papacy of Pius XII would (hopefully) be conducive to Jewish-Catholic dialogue, not sure how this is relevant to the separate matter of his cause for canonization whereby the practice of heroic virtue is concerned? Given the prevailing academic skepticism regarding the Actes et documents du Saint-Siège relatifs à la période de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale à la the International Catholic-Jewish Historical Commission, it seems rather doubtful such ardent critics as J. Michael Phayer, Susan S. Zuccotti, et al. would modify their viewpoints even if the evidence would conclusively refute their current assertions?
 
There are other aspects of his pontificate to consider. For example, the actions of the Catholic Church in the Balkans, during the war and prior…what did he know? Did the Vatican attempt to intervene here as well? Or not?

The Ustaša and the ethnic cleansing of Orthodox Serbs and other “undesirables.”

I think that Pius XII’s record needs to be scrutinized still, as there are many questions out there. It isn’t all an “anti-Catholic Conspiracy.”
Considering the Vatican never established full diplomatic relations with the Independent State of Croatia during the Second World War, seems any intervention vis-à-vis Ustaša atrocities would be primarily contingent on the individual attitudes of the Catholic episcopacy in Croatia? (This is evidently manifested by the degree of political allegiance to the Ustaše ranging from Archbishop Ivan Šarić of Vrhbosna to Bishop Alojzije Mišić of Mostar.) Regardless, seems the actions taken by the Apostolic Visitor Abbot Giuseppe Ramiro Marcone on behalf of the Jews accurately reflected the measured policies of Pius XII ad majora mala vitanda? [osservatoreromano.va/portal/dt?JSPTabContainer.setSelected=JSPTabContainer%2FDetail&last=false=&path=/news/cultura/2011/183q11-Missione-in-Croazia-per-conto-di-Pio-XII.html&title=Mission in Croatia on behalf of Pius XII&locale=en](http://www.osservatoreromano.va/por...oazia-per-conto-di-Pio-XII.html&title=Mission in Croatia on behalf of Pius XII&locale=en) ]
 
According the CNA…

I will wait until I hear it from the Holy Father.
 
I know there’s been some talk here about John Cornwell’s “Hitler’s Pope”, but has anyone here read “Under His Very Windows” by Susan Zucotti? The book is promoted as having a lot of credibility because Zucotti is a Yale professor who’s won a lot of awards for her other books she’s written on Holocaust history, she’s Jewish herself (even though she’s a “humanist” Jew), and she uses archived sources from the Vatican; and she concludes in her book that Pope Pius XII did not help any Jews.
However, Rabbi David Dalin in “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope”, and in some reviews I’ve read on it, claim that Zucotti cherry picks pieces of her sources that make Pius look bad, but basically tells the reader to ignore pieces of her sources that make Pius look like he saved Jews (which apparently she encounters a lot of). But has anyone here actually read it and can shed more light on it?
Yes, but it would be much better to view the following debate hosted at Trinity College on 26 February 2001 between Ronald J. Rychlak and Susan S. Zucotti entitled “Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust” first c-spanvideo.org/program/163105-1 ]. Personally, Zucotti – and to a lesser degree the participants on the subsequent panel discussion – manifest a conscious inclination to subject statements favorable to Pius XII to an excessively skeptical rigor of analysis while uncritically accepting those statements unfavorable to the pontiff with nearly absolute certainty. Her main assertion is that Pius XII cannot be given credit for assisting the Jewish Italian community during the Roman razzia [of 16 October 1943] since she cannot find any documented directive to that effect (despite numerous personal testimonies to the contrary). Seems it would be understood storing any written evidence on such clandestine activities in an unsettled area of conflict would be asinine for maintaining diplomatic impartial neutrality during a major war?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top