Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

[Robert902]

Who said I can’t trust him? He doesn’t decide who goes to Heaven…no more than any of us. The pope is a man. You know that, right?

For Catholics, the Pope is head of the one and only true church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic church He is the mediator with God if you are a Catholic, and when he say’s that outside the church there is no salvation, he is saying that if you are not a Catholic, there is no salvation. You’re going to hell!

Vatican II did not withdraw the infallible dogma “outside the church there is no salvation.” In fact Vatican II’s document Lumen Gentium reaffirms this dogma, and it’s document Dignitatis Humanae teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion.

Sure I know that the Pope is a man, but so is Jesus. There’s a problem here though. The Bible say’s that “there is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.” Personally I have a problem with the Pope being a mediator, because the Bible tells me that there is only one.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[Milliardo]

For Catholics, the Pope is head of the one and only true church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic church He is the mediator with God if you are a Catholic, and when he say’s that outside the church there is no salvation, he is saying that if you are not a Catholic, there is no salvation. You’re going to hell!

Vatican II did not withdraw the infallible dogma “outside the church there is no salvation.” In fact Vatican II’s document Lumen Gentium reaffirms this dogma, and it’s document Dignitatis Humanae teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion.

Sure I know that the Pope is a man, but so is Jesus. There’s a problem here though. The Bible say’s that “there is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.” Personally I have a problem with the Pope being a mediator, because the Bible tells me that there is only one.

God Bless,
Robert

If that is problematic, then it would also be problematic if we pray for one another, since by doing so we mediate for one another.

 

[believers]

Belivers, Are you right now free from sin? Are you free from the desire to sin. Assuming that you are human the answer to this question has to be no.

When you enter Heaven you must, you must be perfect. Cleansed of all unrightousness.

Purgatory means purification. Its not mecessarily a place. It could be instantaneous. Through Christ blood one is infused with grace and made worthy of the kingdom.

Catholics assume its a place and it takes time because of versus such as…

There are some other things that point to purgatory in scripture but that is for another thread. If you wish to start I along with other devout Catholics would be more than happy to discuss it with you.

Also we say it hurts because though our God is merciful he is also a God od justice.

You rob a bank and you may truly be sorry for the crime but you still have to give back the money to be forgiven.

You have an affair and you break it off, you still have to tell your wife to be truly repentant in the eyes of God.(for you not only went against his law but also the vows you gave on your wedding day)

Like King David who repented of his sin and lost his son(a temporal punishment), so to must you and I try to make reparations for our sin. And if not done in this life we must do so by going through Purgatory.

As it is written, I am risen with Him. Jesus is not in purgatory so I won’t be going there besides the fact that it doesn’t exist.

Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2Cr 5:8
We are confident, , and willing rather* to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord**.

As for sin, I’m justified. Just-if-I’d never sinned. All of my sins were forgiven when I turned to the Lord through faith.

Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:7
[Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.*

 

[estesbob]

As it is written, I am risen with Him. Jesus is not in purgatory so I won’t be going there besides the fact that it doesn’t exist.

Col 2:12

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2Cr 5:8

We are confident, , and willing rather* to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord***.
As for sin, I’m justified. Just-if-I’d never sinned. All of my sins were forgiven when I turned to the Lord through faith.

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:7

[Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

You are still operating under the false assumption that people in purgatory will not rise from the dead. Instead you cut n pasted the same verses you posted before-none of which contradicts the existence of Purgatory in any way. You are a a perfect example of the fact that most people who attack a Doctirne of the Church dont have a clue of the underlying theology of the Doctrine. Its kinda like the way Protestant approach scipture they “know” it-they just dont “understand” it.

 

[believers]

You are still operating under the false assumption that people in purgatory will not rise from the dead. Instead you cut n pasted the same verses you posted before-none of which contradicts the existence of Purgatory in any way. You are a a perfect example of the fact that most people who attack a Doctirne of the Church dont have a clue of the underlying theology of the Doctrine. Its kinda like the way Protestant approach scipture they “know” it-they just dont “understand” it.

First, there’s no purgatory. Second, when Christians die, they go straight to Heaven to be WITH the Lord without any RCC detours. Apparently, to believe you are risen WITH the Lord is very important to one’s belief and faith.

If you want to believe you descend into purgatory and are not RISEN WITH the Lord, that’s your choice.

 

[estesbob]

First, there’s no purgatory. Second, when Christians die, they go straight to Heaven to be WITH the Lord without any RCC detours. Apparently, to believe you are risen WITH the Lord is very important to one’s belief and faith.

You beleive this, I assume, based on your personal interpertation of scripture. And it appears that you sole objection to Purgatory is your personal interperation of what being with the Risen with the Lord means. Where did you get the Authority to interpert Scriptue for the rest of us.?

If you want to believe you descend into purgatory and are not RISEN WITH the Lord, that’s your choice.

Why would one who was in purgatory NOT be with the risen Lord?

Getting back on topic what you have done is set up a false sylogism. it goes like this:

1.There is No Purgatory
2.The Pope Beleives in Purgatpry
3.Therefore you cant believe anything the Pope says.

3 does necessarily flow from1 & 2

I could do the same

1. There is a Purgatory
2. Believers says there is no Purgatory
3. Therefore one can not believe anything Believers says.

In your case perhaps the sylogism is correct

 

[thomasf]

For Catholics, the Pope is head of the one and only true church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic church He is the mediator with God if you are a Catholic, and when he say’s that outside the church there is no salvation, he is saying that if you are not a Catholic, there is no salvation. You’re going to hell!

Vatican II did not withdraw the infallible dogma “outside the church there is no salvation.” In fact Vatican II’s document Lumen Gentium reaffirms this dogma, and it’s document Dignitatis Humanae teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion.

Sure I know that the Pope is a man, but so is Jesus. There’s a problem here though. The Bible say’s that “there is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.” Personally I have a problem with the Pope being a mediator, because the Bible tells me that there is only one.

God Bless,
Robert

Who said the Pope is the mediator between God and us? That’s Jesus. The Pope is the head of the church, has the keys to the kingdom. THat does not mean he is the mediator. Your understanding is false.

 

[jmcrae]

The Bible say’s that “there is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.” Personally I have a problem with the Pope being a mediator, because the Bible tells me that there is only one.

You are right - there is only one Mediator who could die on the Cross for our sins, and that was Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ appointed Simon Peter to be Chief Shepherd (that is, Pope) of His Church (John 21:15-19), with the expecation that he would appoint successors (Matthew 16:18-19), and that successors would be appointed until the end of time when Jesus returns and the Last Judgement takes place.

Pope Benedict XVI is 266th in an unbroken line of succession that goes all the way back to St. Peter.

The Pope is not a “mediator” in the sense that Christ is a mediator, because the Pope does not die on the cross for our sins. Rather, the Pope is the key-holder and gatekeeper of the Church (see Isaiah 22:22, ref. Matthew 16:18-19).

The Scriptures also tell us in many places that we are required to obey lawfully appointed authorities. Indeed, we disobey our parents on pain of Mortal Sin (Exodus 20:12), and yet no one would say or think that their parents are always perfect, or that their parents are “mediators” with God.

Christ Himself established the Papacy, and Christ Himself directed St. Peter, our first Pope, to bind and loose, and promised him that whatever he commands for the discipline of the Church on earth is commanded in Heaven - if he states, for example, that for the purposes of discipline in the Church that we will abstain from meat on every Friday of the year, and that eating meat on Fridays is a sin, then God considers it a sin until the Pope himself unbinds that disciplinary law.

This works in exactly the same way that it works when a parent sets a disciplinary law in his or her home that the children must go to bed at 9:30 pm. If the children disobey this disciplinary law of their parents, they are committing a sin not only against their parents, but also against God, because it is God who set their parents in authority over them.

 

[Milliardo]

First, there’s no purgatory. Second, when Christians die, they go straight to Heaven to be WITH the Lord without any RCC detours. Apparently, to believe you are risen WITH the Lord is very important to one’s belief and faith.

If you want to believe you descend into purgatory and are not RISEN WITH the Lord, that’s your choice.

I think you misunderstand what Purgatory is–it isn’t a detour (in fact, it is a rather long way to get to heaven. A detour would mean you’d go straight to it, even with sin, kind of like what OSAS teaches). I would recommend you first understand the underpinnings of Purgatory before knocking it; I would suggest reading: zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/pg.html

 

[believers]

You beleive this, I assume, based on your personal interpertation of scripture. And it appears that you sole objection to Purgatory is your personal interperation of what being with the Risen with the Lord means. Where did you get the Authority to interpert Scriptue for the rest of us.?

"believers:

If you want to believe you descend into purgatory and are not RISEN WITH the Lord, that’s your choice.

Why would one who was in purgatory NOT be with the risen Lord?

Getting back on topic what you have done is set up a false sylogism. it goes like this:

1.There is No Purgatory
2.The Pope Beleives in Purgatpry
3.Therefore you cant believe anything the Pope says.

3 does necessarily flow from1 & 2

I could do the same

1. There is a Purgatory
2. Believers says there is no Purgatory
3. Therefore one can not believe anything Believers says.

In your case perhaps the sylogism is correct

God’s Word says we’re risen WITH the Lord… period. There is no long way to Heaven. There is only ONE way and that’s by Jesus Christ. If you believe you go anywhere but up after you die you’re not going to Heaven.

 

[believers]

I think you misunderstand what Purgatory is–it isn’t a detour (in fact, it is a rather long way to get to heaven. A detour would mean you’d go straight to it, even with sin, kind of like what OSAS teaches). I would recommend you first understand the underpinnings of Purgatory before knocking it; I would suggest reading: zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/pg.html

huh? A detour is going straight to Heaven? The Word of God says we’re risen with Christ. What part of that says we’re going to purgatory?

Being risen with Christ is a very major part of the preaching of the cross.

1Cr 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Do you see the part where it say “unto us which are saved”. That to the believers on earth who know they are saved and are going to Heaven.

 

[jmcrae]

God’s Word says we’re risen WITH the Lord… period. There is no long way to Heaven. There is only ONE way and that’s by Jesus Christ. If you believe you go anywhere but up after you die you’re not going to Heaven.

Do you believe that we go backwards in time and resurrect with Jesus in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea? Or what are you trying to say, here?

Obviously, people who go to Purgatory are with Jesus, since it is Jesus who is cleansing and healing their sin-wounds.

 

[jmcrae]

huh? A detour is going straight to Heaven? The Word of God says we’re risen with Christ. What part of that says we’re going to purgatory?

Purgatory is the gate of Heaven. We can’t get in without going through the gate. Remember what happened to the guy in the parable, who came in through the window and didn’t get his wedding garment?

Purgatory is where we pick up our “wedding garments.”

 

[believers]

Do you believe that we go backwards in time and resurrect with Jesus in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea? Or what are you trying to say, here?

Obviously, people who go to Purgatory are with Jesus, since it is Jesus who is cleansing and healing their sin-wounds.

Is purgatory Heaven? I hate to break the news to you but Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father. Jesus is not sitting in purgatory.

 

[estesbob]

**God’s Word says we’re risen WITH the Lord… period. **There is no long way to Heaven. There is only ONE way and that’s by Jesus Christ. If you believe you go anywhere but up after you die you’re not going to Heaven.

Again you show a pround misunderstaing of purgatory. You have been give link as to enlighten yourself but refuse to budge from you erroneous views.

There is only one to heaven-though Christ as manifested in his Church-which is exactly what the Pope just reiterated.

 

[Milliardo]

huh? A detour is going straight to Heaven?

Well, we could deal about OSAS, but that would require another thread. Suffice it to say that OSAS is a detour, period.

The Word of God says we’re risen with Christ. What part of that says we’re going to purgatory?

Those in Purgatory are already risen with Christ; however, they are there to expiate the temporal punishment that is accompanied with sin. I would suggest having a new thread for this, as this derails the main topic.

Do you see the part where it say “unto us which are saved”. That to the believers on earth who know they are saved and are going to Heaven.

The text does not contradict belief about Purgatory in any way, like I said. Now you would have to discuss all of that more, in which case we would derail the whole thread.

 

[estesbob]

huh? A detour is going straight to Heaven? The Word of God says we’re risen with Christ. What part of that says we’re going to purgatory?

Being risen with Christ is a very major part of the preaching of the cross.

1Cr 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Do you see the part where it say “unto us which are saved”. That to the believers on earth who know they are saved and are going to Heaven.

Oh-so this is all tied up in OSAS? So in order to reject a true Doctrine we have to embrace a false Doctine?

There is more that adequate support for Purgatory in Scripture, Tradition and the teachings of the Magestrium. Salvation by Faith Alone and its bastard child OSAS are supported by none of these three pillars of the Church. You cant prove it scripturaly, you can’t find it in the History of the Church(tradition) you cant find them suported by the Magestrium.

 

[jmcrae]

Is purgatory Heaven?

Yes, it is the first part of Heaven, before we arrive at the Beatific Vision.

I hate to break the news to you but Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father.

And the Father occupies all space and all time - Heaven is not a “place” but rather, a state of being.

Jesus is not sitting in purgatory.

Jesus is where the Father is, and He also occupies all space and all time.

 

[LittleDeb]

Is purgatory Heaven?

Heaven is heaven. It has been described as a “mansion.” Purgatory is the mud-room for that mansion. Heaven has also been described as a “throne-room.” Purgatory is the antechamber of the throne-room. Both mud-rooms and antechambers are where we go to shed our dirty street clothes before being able to greet our Lord. “Nothing unclean shall enter Heaven.”

 

[sosayi1960]

I wish I could believe in a Purgatory, like going to a car-wash prior to heaven? LOL, Catholics are funny. It’s pretty apparent that this Pope is showing his arrogance.
Jesus is the mediator, not some old man in Rome.
Being raised a “cradle Catholic”. I know the superstitions of the Catholic church. Magic brown clothes that assure your way to heaven. Mary a Goddess. Yes, she was a Virgin when Christ was born. Now some want to make her equal to Our Lord himself. Patron Saints for anything you want. Indulgences- exploitation of the peasants. God forgive the Catholic church for it’s nonsense.
Eating meat on Friday’s in Lent gonna send you to hell. Many of the Blasphemous teachings of the church will someday have to answer to God.