Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

[estesbob]

Hitler youth was made mandatory around 1939.

Actually it was 1936:

*On December 1, 1936, Hitler decreed “The Law concerning the Hitler Youth” which mandated that all young Germans (excluding Jews) would “be educated physically, intellectually and morally in the spirit of National Socialism” though the Hitler Youth from the age of ten onward. This law also effectively ended the Catholic Youth Organization which had managed to hold for three years amid continual Nazi harrassment. *

*Parents who prevented their children from joining the Hitler Youth were subject to heavy prison sentences. Membership thus grew to nearly six million. As a result, the organization sprouted into a giant bureaucracy in Berlin and began to acquire the dreariness of a big governmental institution in marked contrast to the dynamic organization it had been in the 1920s and early '30s when members battled daily to bring Hitler to power. The compulsory nature of weekly HJ meetings for everyone led to a gradual decline in morale and discipline. *

historyplace.com/worldwar2/hitleryouth/hj-prelude.htm

 

[SyCarl]

I think that it is totally unworthy to suggest that there is something wrong with the Pope because he was in the Hitler Youth, whether or not it was voluntary. I have many disagreements with the Church’s teaching but something like this is silly. Are we to think any less of Paul because he previously persecuted Christians?

 

[estesbob]

I think that it is totally unworthy to suggest that there is something wrong with the Pope because he was in the Hitler Youth, whether or not it was voluntary. I have many disagreements with the Church’s teaching but something like this is silly. Are we to think any less of Paul because he previously persecuted Christians?

It was NOT Voluntary:

*On December 1, 1936, Hitler decreed “The Law concerning the Hitler Youth” which mandated that all young Germans (excluding Jews) would “be educated physically, intellectually and morally in the spirit of National Socialism” though the Hitler Youth from the age of ten onward. This law also effectively ended the Catholic Youth Organization which had managed to hold for three years amid continual Nazi harrassment. *

historyplace.com/worldwar2/hitleryouth/hj-prelude.htm

 

[Dulcimer]

There would be no need to have these forums if we did that.

 

[Allweather]

The compulsory nature of weekly HJ meetings for everyone led to a gradual decline in morale and discipline.

To say nothing of the turn for the worse in Germany’s war misfortunes after late 1941.

 

[Robert902]

I am in awe that one person can show so much ingorance in a two paragraph post… This is one of those rare gems you run across occasionally in CAF-somethng so totally devoid of any rational thought you find yourself , instead of being mad, laughing your head off.

It’s the content that’s important, not his writing style. There is a lot of truth to what was stated in those two paragraphs. Actually it’s very impressive what he was able to cover with such a remarkable economy of words. Here’s what I think he attempted to cover;
Let’s start with Mary, the mother of Jesus. Catholicism still teaches that she died a virgin. But Jesus had brothers…so say’s the Bible. The Catholic church views her as co-redemptress with Jesus. But the Bible teaches that there is only one mediator between God and man, and that is the Christ Jesus.
Patron saints,The Pope, and Mary are all mediators to the Catholic church. But the Bible teaches that when Jesus died on the cross, the veil in the temple was torn, and we now have access to God. We don’t need a priest, The Pope or Mary.

Heretical, or blasphemous teachings by any group will be judged by God some day. Things like purgatory, indulgences and works based salvation are clever inventions intended to drive people away from a relationship with God. They are not scriptually sound by any standard.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[Robert902]

The Pope really isn’t a mediator…in the sense that you think. He is a messenger, and to me, a Catholic…I view him as having the authority to interpret Scripture (without a thousand different interpretations being thrown my way) and to hand down moral codes (The CCC) as a helper…for Christ. As you know, we view him as the Successor to Peter…our first Pope, so to speak. I think that where the debate comes in is that we shouldn’t be worshipping a man (we don’t) we shouldn’t have two mediators…Jesus and the Pope. No mistake about it–Jesus is the mediator between the Father, and mankind. He is the Savior of the World. Our popes serve as messengers of that word…who are grand teachers and shepherds to us all. We can learn so very much from a person who marries the Church, and devotes his life to tending his flock. Just my 2 cents. (and thanks for yours)

I just find so much of what Catholicism teaches me contradicts the Bible. God gave us His word in a Book…The Bible. The Bible teaches that our God is not a God of confusion. So, if there is confusion, It’s not from God. Being a Catholic means that you trust church tradition and church teaching first.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[paarsurrey]

I just find so much of what Catholicism teaches me contradicts the Bible. God gave us His word in a Book…The Bible. The Bible teaches that our God is not a God of confusion. So, if there is confusion, It’s not from God. Being a Catholic means that you trust church tradition and church teaching first.
God Bless,
Robert

Hi
I agree with you . Confusion leads one nowhere, if Bible does not lead one to certainty then one have misuderstood it. Instead of changing the OTBible, we should change our thinking to make it truthful with rational and reasonable arguments. There is no need to cover up the things under some “mysteries”, the ProphetMessengers never came to create mysteries, they came to open up the mysteries and to enlighten the humanity; not to push them in the darkness and confusion.
Thanks

A Revealed Book must have straight passages on every important Religious issues; of course I agree that we are not supposed to find teachings of Sciences and Arts included in the Revealed Books; rather we are mostly concerned with the every day moral, Spiritual and religious issues, and a religious worthwhile book must resolve such issues, if it is for guidance of the common people and truthful to its purpose. If it does not provide guidance on such issues; then what it is for?
The problem becomes acute or complex when due to certain misconception the clergy, while they don’t find answers in the Book, yet they won’t admit. They start feeding answers from their own wisdom. They try filling the vacuum by their own interpretations first for the Claim and then for the Reason which is usually not found there in the Book. So, they are exposed. This is a common phenomenon in every religion; the Clergy hijacking the religion.

 

[Robert902]

My friend, you have been duped if you really believe that we Catholics believe that the Holy Father (Pope) is a mediator between Man & God. That is not what we believe. What say you now?

Well I say maybe you don’t really know exactly what the Catholic church teaches. There is a difference between what a person “believes” about Catholic dogma, and fact.

I’m not trying to belittle anyone, but a very high percentage of individuals here are misinformed when they talk about what the Catholic church teaches.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[flyersfan1088]

Let’s start with Mary, the mother of Jesus. Catholicism still teaches that she died a virgin. But Jesus had brothers…so say’s the Bible.

Yes, the Bible, let’s focus on that.
Two of those called “brothers” of Jesus, James and Joseph, are identified as sons of another Mary, the wife of Clopas. Compare these two verses.

Matthew 13:55. Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:

John 19:25. Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.

How can this be? Could it be that James and Joseph were his cousins, not brothers? Could it be that “brother” meant the same as"near relative" in ancient writing?

Also, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross instead of one of his siblings?

I think it’s hysterical that there are STILL people who attack the Church on her belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity.

 

[flyersfan1088]

Let’s start with Mary, the mother of Jesus. Catholicism still teaches that she died a virgin. But Jesus had brothers…so say’s the Bible.

Yes, the Bible, let’s focus on that.
Two of those called “brothers” of Jesus, James and Joseph, are identified as sons of another Mary, the wife of Clopas. Compare these three verses.

Matthew 13:55. Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:

John 19:25. Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.

Matthew 27:56. Among whom was Mary Magdalen and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

How can this be? Could it be that James and Joseph were his cousins, not brothers? Could it be that “brother” meant the same as"near relative" in ancient writing?

Also, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross instead of one of his siblings?

I think it’s hysterical that there are STILL people who attack the Church on her belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well I say maybe you don’t really know exactly what the Catholic church teaches. There is a difference between what a person “believes” about Catholic dogma, and fact.
I’m not trying to belittle anyone, but a very high percentage of individuals here are misinformed when they talk about what the Catholic church teaches.
God Bless,
Robert

Hi
I agree with you. The fruits of secular thought and knowledge has changed the civilization of the advanced counrties to enormous proportions. The Catholics living in such countries are under misconception that all this progress is due to Catholicism; which is hardly the case. But I would only suggest that while they enjoy the fruits of secular enlightenment they should try to improve their faith to match with it , to make it rational , reaonable and research oriented for greater benefit of the humanity. Please don’t cover your faith under mysteries, let the mysteries open up to reveal the truth for humanity.
Thanks

A Revealed Book must have straight passages on every important Religious issues; of course I agree that we are not supposed to find teachings of Sciences and Arts included in the Revealed Books; rather we are mostly concerned with the every day moral, Spiritual and religious issues, and a religious worthwhile book must resolve such issues, if it is for guidance of the common people and truthful to its purpose. If it does not provide guidance on such issues; then what it is for?
The problem becomes acute or complex when due to certain misconception the clergy, while they don’t find answers in the Book, yet they won’t admit. They start feeding answers from their own wisdom. They try filling the vacuum by their own interpretations first for the Claim and then for the Reason which is usually not found there in the Book. So, they are exposed. This is a common phenomenon in every religion; the Clergy hijacking the religion.

 

[Allweather]

**I just find **so much of what Catholicism teaches me contradicts the Bible. God gave us His word in a Book…The Bible. The Bible teaches that our God is not a God of confusion. So, if there is confusion, It’s not from God. Being a Catholic means that you trust church tradition and church teaching first.

God Bless,
Robert

Jesus established a Church, not a Bible.

Nothing in the Catholic Church “contradicts” anything in the Bible, and nothing in the Bible “contradicts” anything in the Catholic Church.

I agree that our God is not a God of confusion, but oftentimes people do get confused, for a variety of reasons. One sure pathway to confusion is to assume that what appears to be a contradiction between Church and Bible is actually a contradiction, rather than a misperception, or more likely, a misinterpretation.

Most so-called contradictions are between rival interpretations of Scripture.

Interpretations are inevitable, and necessary. In many doctrinal cases, only one interpretation is possible, since to admit of several would lead to confusion, which couldn’t be from God, as we’ve already established.

Catholics believe that the Church alone is the rightful interpreter of Scripture. Private interpretations are permitted, but not to the extent that they deviate from the teaching of the Church. The opening sentence of your post, bolded above, are indicative that you adhere to personal, private interpretations of Scripture and Tradition rather than submitting to what the authoritative Church teaches.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus established a Church, not a Bible.

Hi
I agree with you that Jesus never authored any Bible, nor he needed one to author. Jesus was raised from childhood as a Jew by Mary who herself was trained by Zechariah a Jewish Prophet. Jesus always referred to OTBible for religious guidance as he was a subordinate Prophet and follower of Moses - the principal.
In fact Jesus never went to church, in my opinion; he always went to a synagogue for worship/prayer. I don’t think he constructed a church before or after the event of crucifixion, until he finally departed from Galilee, if he did then there must be some archeologists/historians here who could point to one.
Jesus never went to Rome or any other European countries, so there is no question of Jesus constructing a church there also.
I doubt, from Galilee when alongwith Mary Jesus went to Northern India/Pakistan Afghanistan and Tibet that he constructed any church there also; and if he did then I think there would be some zealous Catholic archeologists/historians who would trace one I am sure. But incidentally the word church is neither Hebrew nor Aramaic the languages Jesus and Mary spoke of, so there is little chance finding a church constructed by Jesus in Europe. Moreover Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and not to the gentile Europeans, so he did not need visiting there when his mission was no yet complete.
I am sorry, neither Jesus authored any Bible nor he constructed any church. I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

Since Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee; hence my Catholic friends believe many creeds created by the Catholic Clergy not originated by Jesus in person.

 

[Milliardo]

I have no clue where you’re getting your description of Heaven. May I remind you that purgatory IS NOT in the Bible. There isn’t ONE verse that mentions purgatory… NOT ONE.

Do you worship on Sundays. That’s not in the Bible. Can you tell us where did you get the notion we should worship on Sundays then?

 

[buffalo]

I just find so much of what Catholicism teaches me contradicts the Bible. God gave us His word in a Book…The Bible. The Bible teaches that our God is not a God of confusion. So, if there is confusion, It’s not from God. Being a Catholic means that you trust church tradition and church teaching first.

God Bless,
Robert

Check out where the Bible came from.

The New Testament writings came from the oral Traditions.

 

[estesbob]

I just find so much of what Catholicism teaches me contradicts the Bible. God gave us His word in a Book…The Bible. The Bible teaches that our God is not a God of confusion. So, if there is confusion, It’s not from God. Being a Catholic means that you trust church tradition and church teaching first.

God Bless,
Robert

Could you give us some examples of where the Church teaches something that contradicts the Bible?

Thanks!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Well, my dear departed sister in law who grow up in Germany and was a teenager during WW2 at one time told me otherwise.

Well, I sing in the choir with a German lady who grew up in that period and the information she provides on this topic is the opposite of your sister-in-law.

 

[believers]

Do you worship on Sundays. That’s not in the Bible. Can you tell us where did you get the notion we should worship on Sundays then?

I worship every day.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Allis may have missed my earlier post. . .in a nutshell, what ‘may’ have been her SIL’s experience in a given village does not mean that it was the experience of others. IOW, maybe in that ‘one’ village’ all the parents ‘paid’ the fines, or bribed someone, or otherwise managed to escape the norm and the state policy, regarding the Hitler Youth, for a time. We’re talking of the recollection of 60 or more years with who knows what personal experience or worry or need for justification, wishful thinking, etc.

I guarantee you that 40 or 50 years from now, we are going to hear from people that their SIL, or their cousin, etc. was ‘forced’ into attending Latin Masses (or ‘forced’ into attending vernacular Mass), and we will hear that ONLY ONE of the two rites was the ‘real’ rite. Despite the fact that there will exist documents to prove just what Benedict recently said, there will be anecdotal evidence up the wazoo to ‘prove’ the contrary.

Look at how many years we have HEARD that it is ‘Church teaching’ that abortion may be ‘all right’ in some circumstances, that contraception is ‘all right’ if it’s practiced for ‘good reason’, that missing Sunday mass because you’re tired or want to get an early start to go fishing etc. is just fine, that it is ‘all right’ to ‘take’ communion even if you’re in mortal sin, etc.

Despite all the documents that exist that prove that none of the above is correct, you will still hear people telling you, sometimes in high dudgeon, that it most certainly IS correct, and what a rigid Pharisee you are to ‘doubt’ them.