Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

[Tantum_ergo]

I worship every day.

Uh huh. So did the Jewish people and so do all Christians. But do tell me, did the Jewish people have a particular day of the week set aside in Scripture for them to come to a particular place to worship God?

They did, didn’t they?
And wasn’t it Saturday (or to be very specific, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)?

So why do all Catholic and Orthodox Christians (who have done so since apostolic times) and most Protestants (over the last 500 years) worship on Sunday?

 

[believers]

Yes, the Bible, let’s focus on that.
Two of those called “brothers” of Jesus, James and Joseph, are identified as sons of another Mary, the wife of Clopas. Compare these three verses.

Matthew 13:55. Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:

John 19:25. Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.

Matthew 27:56. Among whom was Mary Magdalen and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

How can this be? Could it be that James and Joseph were his cousins, not brothers? Could it be that “brother” meant the same as"near relative" in ancient writing?

Also, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross instead of one of his siblings?

I think it’s hysterical that there are STILL people who attack the Church on her belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity.

Luk 24:44
And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus quotes the Psalms

Jhn 15:25
But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Psa 69:4
They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, [being] mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored [that] which I took not away.

Jhn 2:16-17
And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

Psa 69:9
For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

Psa 69:4-9
Psa 69 (4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, [being] mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored [that] which I took not away. (5) O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee. (6) Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel.(7) Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face. (8) I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children. (9) For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

 

[believers]

Uh huh. So did the Jewish people and so do all Christians. But do tell me, did the Jewish people have a particular day of the week set aside in Scripture for them to come to a particular place to worship God?

They did, didn’t they?
And wasn’t it Saturday (or to be very specific, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)?

So why do all Catholic and Orthodox Christians (who have done so since apostolic times) and most Protestants (over the last 500 years) worship on Sunday?

Did Jesus preach on Saturday only?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Did Jesus preach on Saturday only?

And this has what to do with what I asked?

Why do you–YOU–a Christian–worship in a church with a minister and a congregation as the Jewish people did with rabbi and congregation, in a service whose roots are in that Sabbath service as plainly documented–on a Sunday? Where in the Bible did it tell Christians that they must ‘change’ that worship to Sunday?

 

[believers]

And this has what to do with what I asked?

Why do you–YOU–a Christian–worship in a church with a minister and a congregation as the Jewish people did with rabbi and congregation, in a service whose roots are in that Sabbath service as plainly documented–on a Sunday? Where in the Bible did it tell Christians that they must ‘change’ that worship to Sunday?

I belong to a New Testament church. We don’t call our preachers “rabbi” or “father”. I’m going to ask this once again… did Jesus preach on Saturday only? Or, did the congregation listen to Jesus on days other than Saturday? They’re basically the same question.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Do you worship as a congregation in your church on Saturday or Sunday? Do most Christians worship on Saturday or Sunday?

This is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate answer. The overwhelming majority of Christians worship weekly, on a Sunday, and have for nigh unto 2000 years. Why?

 

[Man]

Essentially the wound of the Orthodox Church appears to be the lack of unity the lack of obedience to the Pope causes.

Other churches are “not proper,” it seems, because they are not genuinely apostolic and do not celebrate the seven sacraments. It like saying that they barely resemble the centuries old church from the apostles and are almost something else entirely. I said -almost-.

 

[believers]

Do you worship as a congregation in your church on Saturday or Sunday? Do most Christians worship on Saturday or Sunday?

This is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate answer. The overwhelming majority of Christians worship weekly, on a Sunday, and have for nigh unto 2000 years. Why?

Christians today worship Him in Spirit and in truth which must be done EVERY DAY.

Did Jesus preach on days other than Saturday? Did His disciples gather on non-Saturdays to listen the Lord?

 

[Man]

And this has what to do with what I asked?

Why do you–YOU–a Christian–worship in a church with a minister and a congregation as the Jewish people did with rabbi and congregation, in a service whose roots are in that Sabbath service as plainly documented–on a Sunday? Where in the Bible did it tell Christians that they must ‘change’ that worship to Sunday?

Sunday is not the Sabbath, but rather the Lord’s Days, which has been celebrated since at least Paul began teaching on it (remember the boy falls out the window…).

 

[Man]

I belong to a New Testament church. We don’t call our preachers “rabbi” or “father”. I’m going to ask this once again… did Jesus preach on Saturday only? Or, did the congregation listen to Jesus on days other than Saturday? They’re basically the same question.

Jesus taught one whatever day it seems, including on Saturday. The question is not really one of “what the Bible says,” but of what has always been done. Many “Bible churches” that barely resemble the ancient churches have read the Bible in a way that they simply reject Traditions. They have become free to translate the Bible away from its meaning. But, only free to the point where they interpret it by the rules of their modern leaders. Thus, trading the popes, bishops, monks, and so forth throughout the centuries for a person educated a couple years in the faith of his choice.

To illustrate.

If I read the Bible myself, I might reject the Trinity. BUT, I bet that’s not allowed in your church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I see that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that, just as the Jewish people worshipped God both publically and privately, at all times but–as a congregation and with a rabbi/teacher/priest as leader, on the Sabbath as Scripturally mandated in the commandments–most Christians have historically worshipped on Sundays.

Of course, by your acknowledgment that even Protestants today recognize the authority of the early Church to have ‘changed’ the Jewish sabbath worship to the fulfilled “Lord’s Day” worship which acknowedged the Paschal Resurrection of Christ, and thus follow that change to this day–

You would recognize that the Catholic Church **has ** authority as given by Christ (Scripturally) to ‘bind and loose’, and to interpret the “all truth” which we are told the Paraclete (Holy Spirit) would guide us to.

You haven’t actually come out and ‘acknowledged’ by your ‘cyber’ word this truth, even though you cannot refute it and must seek to try to turn the conversation elsewhere.

But the seed will grow and bear fruit someday. May God grant that it will bear good fruit and bring you back to His One True Church.

 

[guanophore]

You can’t really say that the pope is unable to discern who is in heaven and who is not unless you are prepared to also say that the canonization of saints is a fraud.

The process of canonization is a lengthly and rigorous one. When it is complete, the Pope will announce that a person who has met all the criteria is suitable for emulation by Christians, whether such a one is Great, Blessed, or Sainted.

Howver, since this procedure is not conducted upon non-catholics, the Pope will not presume to know which of them may be saints in heaven, and which may not.

 

[guanophore]

Is it that the Church *can’t *say anything about those who have been damned or that she simply doesn’t? I know of no reason why the Church would be blinded from discerning the quality of some trees by their fruit but not others. I imagine that the Feast of All Saints is more of a concession to practicality than it is a serious limitation on the Church’s ability to be able to infallibly discern the final destiny of the departed. That the Church doesn’t set up a canonization tribunal for every Catholic who has gone to his grave in no way implies that she couldn’t if she chose to do so.

Jesus did not want us to spend our time and energy on such things. this is why He instructed us to let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest, and the angels will separate them. I think this is one of the greatest drawbacks of Protestants who are so focused on who is “saved” and who is not. It detracts attention from living the sanctified life.

God has given the Church the ability to discern the tree by it’s fruits, and She does, but not to the extent of the fate of the individual. She addresses errors in doctrine on a universal level. Only God can know the heart of the individual.

Or do you think all cases should be handled by the church as Peter handled Ananias and Sapphira?

Acts 5:1
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession."

 

[Man]

… this is why He instructed us to let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest…

What a great reminder.

So many churches and especially televangelist preachers say “I saved 2 millions souls!” or something like that. It a ridiculous assertion, especially when one counts every person who enters, even in countries where almost everyone is Catholic.

 

[guanophore]

So let’s attack the man, instead of reaching out in love. Shame on you, perhaps.

It was not an attack on the man, but the improper and uncharitable behavior. Love seeks the truth.

1 Cor 13:4-7

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

He is called to account for his lack of loving behavior toward the Holy Father.

 

[guanophore]

this is not the first time this guy has put his foot in his mouth, its not even the second, Don,t forget that I was around during WW2. Those teenager that belonged to those Nazi youth organizition where there by choice. They all loved Hitler

This is certainly a sweeping and prejudicial remark about the Nazi Youth. Even if it were true, and they all had “choice” (unlikely in any facist regime), they sure don’t have to like what he did, or what Naziism eventually became.

God is willing to clease all, no matter what their past offenses. If God can put their offenses behind Himself, are you better than He is?

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

 

[guanophore]

It"s your pope that was not reaching out in love !

Reaching out in love means reaching out in truth. The truth is that some, and in other cases most, of the Apostolic Teachings have been lost to ecclesiastical communities since the Reformation. It is not through any fault of their own. They don’t know any better.

 

[guanophore]

Well, my dear departed sister in law who grow up in Germany and was a teenager during WW2 at one time told me otherwise.

I don’t think it was compulsory for girls, just for boys. It was preparation for service in the infantry, and they didn’t take girls at that time.

 

[guanophore]

Hi

Because of his righteousness, Jesus’ prayers were heard, and he was saved from killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

This is way off topic, paarsurrey, but I have a policy not to let even one of your erroneous assertions go without refutation. Jesus did die on the cross. Jesus is righteous, and death has no dominion over him. He did not allow some other person to be crucified in his place, as you assert, and he did not travel to India after he left Galilee, He ascended into heaven.

Sorry to all the rest of you that may be derailed.

Hi
It is for this reason that I say that while remaining steadfast on one’s faith, one should be humble enough to keep a window or door open for yet more truth that could come from any direction, hitherto unknown to one.

Such as from Imam Madhi!

It is also necessary that one should be doing constant comparision of one’s faith with others to see if one posses the full truth or just a portion of it.Unless tested one cannot be sure of the stregth.

But one must not put Imam Madhi to the test,for he is the Promised Messiah!

I though my reply was off topic, but this …I don’t even understand this?

 

[ApostateRLDS]

I don’t think it was compulsory for girls, just for boys. It was preparation for service in the infantry, and they didn’t take girls at that time.

That could be true. An older German that I knew claimed that his mother raised him as a girl to keep him out of the HJ. To say that that had a profound influence on him is an understatement.