Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

[guanophore]

I agree. Now, if only the RCC would just teach it.

You are encouraged to help out with that, you know! We need more knowledgeable and biblically grounded catechists.

Well, those who are in Christ, do not go to hell. Furthermore, those who are in Christ believe that they are risen with Him just as He is risen.

Amen!

Well… if you believe in purgatory, then you believe those in Christ are not risen with Him. How can you say that?

There is no contradiction between the doctrine of purgatory, and the doctrine of the resurrection. They are seamless parts of one another. A person who thinks otherwise does not properly understand one or the other doctrine.

No, I’m not talking about OSAS. I asked you if you believe in purgatory and you said yes. If you are a true believer in Christ, you must believe you are baptized into His death and raised with Him. That means no purgatory.

This is an erroneous conclusion, believers. We have been raised with Christ positionally only, and not practically. Otherwise, we would all be in heaven right now, instead of writing to each other on this forum. We have the rest of our lives on this earth to live out the practical sense of our positional reality.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Howver I have a feeling itts not about Re: Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

On the contrary, estesbob, it is a perfect example of how protestants are missing part of the truth. This particular protestant denies the truth of purgatory, demonstrating the accuracy of the Pope’s statement!

 

[Milliardo]

I worship every day.

Cop out. I see you would not address that question, so let me ask again: do you go to church and worship there on Sundays? Where is that found on the Bible that Sunday is our day of worship?

 

[guanophore]

Yes, the RCC preaches that Christ is risen. However, the RCC DOES NOT preach that the dead in Christ are risen WITH HIM. She preaches purgatory. Sorry… but those in Christ MUST believe that they are risen WITH HIM. No way around that one. Believing that those in Christ go somewhere else other than with Christ makes your belief and faith vain.

Not quite, believers. The Catholic church teaches that both these things are true. No one experiences purgatory who is not risen with Christ. The Catholic church teaches that we die with Christ in baptism, and are raised with him when we come up out of the waters of baptism. Also, you are misunderstanding Purgatory if you think it is a “place”. It is not a “place” but a state of being, from which a saved person is brought out of any “weight of sin that clings so easily”, since we know that nothing unclean can enter heaven, any dead works must be burned away from us (purged) before we can enjoy the face of Christ.

You are making a distinction where none exists, believers. All those who are baptised have died with Christ, and are risen with Him. Purgatory is the state during which those risen with Christ are prepared to see Him face to face. It is not “somewhere else”.

1Cr 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? (INSERT PURGATORY)

I strongly recommend that you refrain from adding words to the scripture. Catholics do not insert purgatory here. Neither do Catholics teach that the dead are not raised. You are in error on both points.

 

[IamOdd4God]

Cop out. I see you would not address that question, so let me ask again: do you go to church and worship there on Sundays? Where is that found on the Bible that Sunday is our day of worship?

Greetings,

Is it wrong to worship God on any given day of the week? Granted it is wrong to not keep the Sabbath day holy, but as long as a person obeys the fourth commandment, is it wrong to worship God on any other day of the week?

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

 

[Milliardo]

Greetings,

Is it wrong to worship God on any given day of the week? Granted it is wrong to not keep the Sabbath day holy, but as long as a person obeys the fourth commandment, is it wrong to worship God on any other day of the week?

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

No, but let’s stick to the issue: where is it stated that our day of worship is on Sunday? That is the contention. Copping out with, “I worship everyday” isn’t going to cut it. The Jews worship God everyday as well, I am sure, yet keep the Saturday Sabbath as their day where they worship Him as a community; so where is Sunday found in the Bible?

 

[guanophore]

Greetings,

Is it wrong to worship God on any given day of the week? Granted it is wrong to not keep the Sabbath day holy, but as long as a person obeys the fourth commandment, is it wrong to worship God on any other day of the week?

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

Not at all. The issue was addressed to the question "what are some of the ‘so called’ Sacred Traditions of the church not found in scripture.

For the early Christians, who were all Jews, the Sabbath was Saturday. Slowly, the practice moved to the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath day, and finally the Church officially declared Sunday as the Sabbath for Christians. But this is not found in the Bible. Worship of God every day is best.

 

[Man]

Acts 20:
7
On the first day of the week 3 when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight.
8
There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were gathered,
9
and a young man named Eutychus who was sitting on the window sill was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. Once overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and when he was picked up, he was dead.
10
Paul went down, 4 threw himself upon him, and said as he embraced him, “Don’t be alarmed; there is life in him.”
11
Then he returned upstairs, broke the bread, and ate; after a long conversation that lasted until daybreak, he departed.
12
And they took the boy away alive and were immeasurably comforted.

Sunday, the first day, our Lord’s day…

 

[estesbob]

Not at all. The issue was addressed to the question "what are some of the ‘so called’ Sacred Traditions of the church not found in scripture.

For the early Christians, who were all Jews, the Sabbath was Saturday. Slowly, the practice moved to the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath day, and finally the Church officially declared Sunday as the Sabbath for Christians. But this is not found in the Bible. Worship of God every day is best.

And once he resolves that he’ll have to tell us why he follows that non scriptual tradtion of believing in the Trinity.

 

[estesbob]

Acts 20:
7
On the first day of the week 3 when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight.
8
There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were gathered,
9
and a young man named Eutychus who was sitting on the window sill was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. Once overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and when he was picked up, he was dead.
10
Paul went down, 4 threw himself upon him, and said as he embraced him, “Don’t be alarmed; there is life in him.”
11
Then he returned upstairs, broke the bread, and ate; after a long conversation that lasted until daybreak, he departed.
12
And they took the boy away alive and were immeasurably comforted.

Sunday, the first day, our Lord’s day…

So becuase they broke bread on a Sunday that makes it the Lords day? Following that logic it would appear Thursday should be the Lords day as that is the Last time Jesus “broke bread”

 

[Milliardo]

Acts 20:
7
On the first day of the week 3 when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight.

Sunday, the first day, our Lord’s day…

Yes, but there is are 2 problems to this: at the time it was written, the Christians still kept the Saturday Sabbath; Sunday as the day of worship would not be done until the final break between Judaism and Christianity, which has not occurred then in Acts. I actually use this passage in defense of Sunday with Adventists, to show that early Christians already recognized that day and gathered, but also note that at that time the Saturday Sabbath was still observed. Another problem is that this simply narrates that they met then on a Sunday to break bread, in commemoration of the Resurrection (and we can note here as well that we see here how Mass was at that stage), but it does not command the making of that day as the day of worship. In short, it is but a narrative. So it remains: where is it specifically commanded that we should worship on a Sunday?

 

[Man]

So becuase they broke bread on a Sunday that makes it the Lords day? Following that logic it would appear Thursday should be the Lords day as that is the Last time Jesus “broke bread”

It establishes Biblical precedent, and shows the Tradition, was, to Temple on the Sabbath, and then that night (the next Jewish day starts at dusk) to worship Jesus on the first day.

 

[Man]

Paul and Peter assert that the Christian Church need not be Jewish or adopt all their laws and customs.

The Tradition then was later made Doctrine at some council or other, do I have to look it up?

 

[IamOdd4God]

No, but let’s stick to the issue: where is it stated that our day of worship is on Sunday? That is the contention. Copping out with, “I worship everyday” isn’t going to cut it. The Jews worship God everyday as well, I am sure, yet keep the Saturday Sabbath as their day where they worship Him as a community; so where is Sunday found in the Bible?

Okay, I can see where I needed to be more clear with my question. What I asked was…

“Is it wrong to worship God on any given day of the week? Granted it is wrong to not keep the Sabbath day holy, but as long as a person obeys the fourth commandment, is it wrong to worship God on any other day of the week?”

…allow me to clarify the underlined portion of my question…

A person who is obeying the fourth commandment is one who is keeping “THE” Sabbath day, and not “A” Sabbath day. So now, if John Doe obeys the fourth commandment by keeping the Sabbath day holy as instructed by God; is he wrong for worshipping God on Sunday too?

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

 

[Milliardo]

…allow me to clarify the underlined portion of my question…

A person who is obeying the fourth commandment is one who is keeping “THE” Sabbath day, and not “A” Sabbath day. So now, if John Doe obeys the fourth commandment by keeping the Sabbath day holy as instructed by God; is he wrong for worshipping God on Sunday too?

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

Not cutting it. I am asking, where is it found that we should worship on a Sunday? Please, that is a very simple question. We can go on all day and justify, “I worship everyday”, but all I’m asking is where is it found that Sunday should be the day of worship. Simple question, simple answer. So, can you tell us where is Sunday worship specifically stated?

 

[Milliardo]

It establishes Biblical precedent, and shows the Tradition, was, to Temple on the Sabbath, and then that night (the next Jewish day starts at dusk) to worship Jesus on the first day.

That is true; precedent was indeed made, and from there we see the development and movement towards Sunday worship. However, it’s never commanded that we should worship on a Sunday (btw, I am not questioning Sunday worship, but merely showing, in relation to our talk on Purgatory, how even most Protestants unthinkingly accept something that’s not commanded in the Bible to be done).

 

[estesbob]

It establishes Biblical precedent, and shows the Tradition, was, to Temple on the Sabbath, and then that night (the next Jewish day starts at dusk) to worship Jesus on the first day.

The verses you posted established nothing of the sort

 

[Man]

That is true; precedent was indeed made, and from there we see the development and movement towards Sunday worship. However, it’s never commanded that we should worship on a Sunday (btw, I am not questioning Sunday worship, but merely showing, in relation to our talk on Purgatory, how even most Protestants unthinkingly accept something that’s not commanded in the Bible to be done).

This is an excellent technique. I would usually start with showing them how their church has doctrine passed down by its founders, and how it limits me from believing that we can all be god and that god as presented in the Bible is actually three persons (Jehovah’s Witness style). Unless they are a JW of course.

 

[Man]

The verses you posted established nothing of the sort

It certainly does. Worship of Jesus, noted in the Bible, done after temple on the first day.

This is the apparent reason why worship is on Sunday, rather than Thursday.

We could just make a new church worshiping on Thursday by the additional reason you gave, but I won’t leave.

 

[believers]

I see that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that, just as the Jewish people worshipped God both publically and privately, at all times but–as a congregation and with a rabbi/teacher/priest as leader, on the Sabbath as Scripturally mandated in the commandments–most Christians have historically worshipped on Sundays.

Of course, by your acknowledgment that even Protestants today recognize the authority of the early Church to have ‘changed’ the Jewish sabbath worship to the fulfilled “Lord’s Day” worship which acknowedged the Paschal Resurrection of Christ, and thus follow that change to this day–

You would recognize that the Catholic Church **has ** authority as given by Christ (Scripturally) to ‘bind and loose’, and to interpret the “all truth” which we are told the Paraclete (Holy Spirit) would guide us to.

You haven’t actually come out and ‘acknowledged’ by your ‘cyber’ word this truth, even though you cannot refute it and must seek to try to turn the conversation elsewhere.

But the seed will grow and bear fruit someday. May God grant that it will bear good fruit and bring you back to His One True Church.

Who taught you that Sunday is the Sabbath?

 

[Man]

The verses you posted established nothing of the sort

Actually, you are the first person I’ve heard tell me this.

Seventh-day adventists go back to the Decalogue and tell me how the Catholic Church is breaking it. They admit this passage as precedent, but see it, rather, as a spirit filled extension of the Saturday Sabbath.