Pope "Deeply Ashamed" of Abuse Scandal

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(from the article)
ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE, April 15 – Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday that he is “deeply ashamed” of the Catholic church’s clergy sexual abuse scandal and said seminaries would not tolerate pedophiles…

***He said the church needs to act on three levels: a legal level, a pastoral level and a level at which seminaries are reformed so they don’t harbor pedophiles. ***
***“I would not speak in this moment about homosexuality, but pedophilia, which is a different thing,” Benedict said. “We would absolutely exclude pedophiles from the sacred ministry . . . because it is more important to have good priests [than] to have many priests.” ***
Isn’t it a shame the pope just doesn’t get it. Or he gets it and …
He IS a really smart guy.

THIS IS NOT A PEDOPHILIA PROBLEM - IT IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HOMOSEXUAL PROBLEM. The number of actual “pedophiles” in the priesthood is minimal. The number of homosexuals in the priesthood is off the charts.

80% of the victims were male. - 80%

READ THE JOHN JAY REPORT
bishop-accountability.org/reports/2004_02_27_JohnJay/index.html

The great majority of these victims were NOT PREPUBESCENT.
67% were age 12 and above.
80 % were male.
 
He gets it very well. YOU don’t.

You imply that all men with a SSA are inherently inclined to pedophilia and/or pedarasty. Not at all established in fact.

The John Jay report surely suggests a homosexual element to the abuse, but this does not in any way support an assertion that all or even most of those with an SSA will be abusers.

He is simply being charitable and rejecting the assertion of some that anybody with an SSA is going to be a pedophile/pedarast. The truth is more subtle and there are deeper and better supported reasons not to ordain those with a ‘deep seated SSA.’ Just like he has said in the past.

Don’t read in a knee jerk fashion! Makes you sound like a TV reporter. 😉
 
manualman;
You imply that all men with a SSA are inherently inclined to pedophilia and/or pedarasty. Not at all established in fact.
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Well the Church apparently believes that homosexual priest are more of a problem than heterosexuals, which is why they now prohibit homosexuals from entering the priesthood. Apparently the data the Church is looking at is contrary to what you believe.

Jim
 
Be very careful to hear what people are saying here.

The pope has said that pedophilia is a very different thing than homsexuality. That does not exclude the possibility that SSA poses a risk factor for abuse.

For example,
Both my grandfathers were at least borderline alcoholics. That doesn’t mean I will surely become an alcoholic, does it? Same might be true of the underlying causes of pedophelia, even if there is some kind of homosexual link not yet clearly established.

The pope is quite right to choose his words VERY carefully to avoid the impression that he could ever endorse any such idea as “all gays are boy abusers.” Such hateful generalizations have no place in the mouth of any christian, much less pope. He also MUST be very careful to avoid the impression of scapegoating. The Jay report shows ~20% female victims, right? The issue cannot be simply lain on the doorstep of the ‘gays.’ Clearly, there is a problem that requires a comprehensive solution, not a nice, neat scapegoat.
 
manualman said:
He gets it very well. YOU don’t.

You imply that all men with a SSA are inherently inclined to pedophilia and/or pedarasty. Not at all established in fact.

The John Jay report surely suggests a homosexual element to the abuse, but this does not in any way support an assertion that all or even most of those with an SSA will be abusers.

He is simply being charitable and rejecting the assertion of some that anybody with an SSA is going to be a pedophile/pedarast. The truth is more subtle and there are deeper and better supported reasons not to ordain those with a ‘deep seated SSA.’ Just like he has said in the past.

Don’t read in a knee jerk fashion! Makes you sound like a TV reporter. 😉
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The problem is not one of pedophilia, it is one of same-sex attractions. People who possess that disorder are simply too sick to spread the Good News. The half-measures currently in vogue today, such as the seriously misguided Courage ministry, do nothing to directly address the problem of same-sex attractions and instead look past them encouraging a Manicheaen ethic of sexual suppression and sacrilegiously equating it to chastity.

People who have same-sex attractions are called to rid themselves of them. It is no mistake that nearly every response by staff apologists to someone struggling with same-sex attractions references NARTH. These professionals understand, and so ought we, that the hope of salvation lies in sexual attraction to the opposite sex.

The evangelist Paul tells us in his letter to the Romans that same-sex attractions spring from an idolatrous rejection of God. (1) Those who obstinately refuse to acquire opposite-sex attractions and, by doing so, implicitly reject God, should be warned that God may decide to return the favor and reject them at their particular judgment.

(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. Rom 1:22-27. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans1.htm
 
You make it the uber-sin. The unforgiveable one. But that is nowhere found in catholic teaching.

Yes, even the inclination is disordered. So is the inclination in me to notice cleavage (other than my wifes)! Both are warped versions of the mutually giving sexuality God intended for humanity. We are called to struggle against ALL our disordered inclinations, no? Some folks never do kick the SSA, do you claim them all to be damned? How about alcoholics? Is a drunk that has been sober for 20 years before death still damned because he still has the disordered inclination? I think not. You are making presumptions about the origins and potential ‘fixes’ for SSA that are not supported in Scripture, Tradition or science to the best of my knowledge.

From what I’ve heard of them on catholic radio, NARTH doesn’t promise all those with SSA that they can get rid of it. They will explore POTENTIAL ways of reducing or eliminating it, but make no promises. That is consistent with the outlook of Courage (did you mean to bash Dignity/Integrity instead? I’d be with you there).
 
If this Pope is so ashamed why isnt he meeing with the abuse victims? Also, not ashamed enough to have lobbied for, or used diplomatic immunty to keep from being questioned about how much HE knew and when HE KNEW IT. :rolleyes:
 
CathCentrist said:
If this Pope is so ashamed why isnt he meeing with the abuse victims? Also, not ashamed enough to have lobbied for, or used diplomatic immunty to keep from being questioned about how much HE knew and when HE KNEW IT. :rolleyes:
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Indeed. This is deeply troubling. Deeply troubling.
 
CathCentrist said:
If this Pope is so ashamed why isnt he meeing with the abuse victims? Also, not ashamed enough to have lobbied for, or used diplomatic immunty to keep from being questioned about how much HE knew and when HE KNEW IT. :rolleyes:
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Why is this relevant? He wasn’t Pope when this was occuring.

The Bishops of the local dioceses are responsible for the actions of the priests…not the Vatican.

How does the Pope meeting with abuse victims help? What does it accomplish other than a media “feeding frenzy”?

What exactly do you people want?
 
CreatioNova said:
Indeed. This is deeply troubling. Deeply troubling.
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Code:
How would any Pope know about ALL of the abuses going on through the whole world? I am sure if he had time he would meet with the victms themselves. If the victims would want to see him…
 
Shoshana said:
How would any Pope know about ALL of the abuses going on through the whole world? I am sure if he had time he would meet with the victms themselves. If the victims would want to see him…
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What I’m hearing is that some groups have specifically asked to meet with the pope and this has been refused.

I agree no pope can know of every single solitary abuse that is occuring. That, to me, is not the point.
The point is he is head of a church that through the systems that were in place at the time, allowed the systematic abuse of young children to go on, for years.

My opinion, and that’s all it is, my opinion, is that the pope should meet the victims representatives, he should MAKE time to meet them. IF it matters that much to him. It’s not for me to say how that would help the victims. THEY know what they want from the church now, having suffered appallingly at the hands of some of Christ’s representatives on earth.
He was a Bishop when all this was going on - he is the pope now - he should listen.
 
Not to be crass or unfeeling, but If he did meet with a victim’s group, what would he say to them that hasn’t already been said? What would they say to him that they haven’t already said to the media and in pickets outside churches after Sunday masses? Would it truely be cathartic for the people who were hurt by their priests and bishops here in the US to give the Pope, who was not the Pope when the offenses and cover ups occurred, “a piece of their minds?”

I don’t know about you, but I generally try to avoid putting myself infront of a hostile crowd bent on berating me for things that I had no control over. The Church has put in place the Virtus program, and changed the guidelines for reporting future abuse accusations as a response to the problem. She has also paid out millions in numerous diocese to victims and their families. Sadly, this money did not come from the priests and bishops who committed and covered up the offenses. It came out of the pockets of the people in those diocese.

I understand that the people who were hurt by these evil acts want justice, and want to give suggestions to the Church to reduce the likelyhood that these things will happen again. The best venue for this is not some collective gripe session with the Pope.

One final note, Fr. Corapi tells a story of a woman who got in his face in an airport terminal telling him how angry she was at “you priests” for the sexual abuse scandal. He calmly told her that if she thought she was mad, she should think about how mad he is, because after all she didn’t have to go around in public wearing a Roman collar and priests cloths. I have no doubt that our Holy Father shares the sentiment. He loves the Church and it must pain him beyond our imagination to see how much the despical actions of a few have soiled thename and reputation of Bride of Christ which he has given his entire life to the service of.

May God bless Pope Benedict and the Church he serves.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Why is this relevant? He wasn’t Pope when this was occuring.
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Under JPII, Cardinal Ratzinger was one of the most powerful men in the Vatican. He was a strict enforcer of church doctrine and got the nickname “Cardinal No.” Starting in 1981 and until his election as Pope, he was in charge of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, the Vatican office that oversees doctrines of faith and morals. (Formerly known as the Holy Inquisition.) BXVI is extremely knowledgeable and intelligent, he is a scholar. In his Vatican position he had to have extensive knowledge about the sexual abuse problems in the United States and elsewhere. That is why the inquiry is relevant.
 
I think that the Pope was trying to make the following points:

Abusing children is not the same as homosexuality, and SSA is not the cause of it.

There is a place in the priesthood for someone who has SSA and is living a chaste life/trying to follow God’s will.

A person who has had a SSA relationship in the past could still be a priest, but a person who has abused children in the past NEVER could.
 
In my job, I have to meet parents. These are very often very angry parents. The cause of their anger has absolutely nothing to do with me personally or anything I did or did not do.
They don’t want to talk to the staff concerned that caused the problem. They want to talk to their director. Me.
I reassure them, we learn the lessons of what went wrong, and I impliment change to try and make sure it never happens again.

Very often, the fact that I personally met them and reasured them is all they need.

You get my point. And I don’t think you’re being crass or unfeeling 🙂
brockmac said:
Not to be crass or unfeeling, but If he did meet with a victim’s group, what would he say to them that hasn’t already been said? What would they say to him that they haven’t already said to the media and in pickets outside churches after Sunday masses? Would it truely be cathartic for the people who were hurt by their priests and bishops here in the US to give the Pope, who was not the Pope when the offenses and cover ups occurred, “a piece of their minds?”

I don’t know about you, but I generally try to avoid putting myself infront of a hostile crowd bent on berating me for things that I had no control over. The Church has put in place the Virtus program, and changed the guidelines for reporting future abuse accusations as a response to the problem. She has also paid out millions in numerous diocese to victims and their families. Sadly, this money did not come from the priests and bishops who committed and covered up the offenses. It came out of the pockets of the people in those diocese.

I understand that the people who were hurt by these evil acts want justice, and want to give suggestions to the Church to reduce the likelyhood that these things will happen again. The best venue for this is not some collective gripe session with the Pope.

One final note, Fr. Corapi tells a story of a woman who got in his face in an airport terminal telling him how angry she was at “you priests” for the sexual abuse scandal. He calmly told her that if she thought she was mad, she should think about how mad he is, because after all she didn’t have to go around in public wearing a Roman collar and priests cloths. I have no doubt that our Holy Father shares the sentiment. He loves the Church and it must pain him beyond our imagination to see how much the despical actions of a few have soiled thename and reputation of Bride of Christ which he has given his entire life to the service of.

May God bless Pope Benedict and the Church he serves.
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brockmac said:
I understand that the people who were hurt by these evil acts want justice, and want to give suggestions to the Church to reduce the likelyhood that these things will happen again. The best venue for this is not some collective gripe session with the Pope.
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I agree completely. For those injured, the Courts of Justice are open where claims can be inquired into and resolved with appropriate formality and dignity, subject to established rules of procedure and evidence. This is far, far superior to shrill public beratings that accomplish little or nothing.

Those who want a pound of flesh and feel that judicial proceedings are easier than being screamed at, have surely never experienced or seen the effect of a thorough oral examination by an experienced attorney of a guilty witness under oath in a civil matter.
 
He *could *meet the victims reps in private, with dignity, and humility. No need for a public shrilling, grilling or trial by mob.

Personally I feel it’s a lost opportunity for healing.

But we shall agree to differ and pray together.
 
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