Pope "Deeply Ashamed" of Abuse Scandal

[gmarie21]

He *could *meet the victims reps in private, with dignity, and humility. No need for a public shrilling, grilling or trial by mob.

Personally I feel it’s a lost opportunity for healing.

But we shall agree to differ and pray together.

And I’m sure he would if they would also do the same and leave the media out of this. Therein lies the problem, those who want to speak with the pope don’t make their request in a private manner, but only via the media. It’s like a child whining and screaming at the parent for attention when all that child has to do is ask calmly. As a parent, I do not feed my child’s immaturity, but address my child when she has calmed down and begins acting respectfully. If I didn’t do that, it would be a battle of who can speak louder, and we all know that with that, nothing gets accomplished and people just talk over one another without listening. My guess is that the victims, if they were to meet with the pope, would have 0 intention of listening to his responses and compassions.

 

[bcuster]

He gets it very well. YOU don’t.

You imply that all men with a SSA are inherently inclined to pedophilia and/or pedarasty. Not at all established in fact.

The John Jay report surely suggests a homosexual element to the abuse, but this does not in any way support an assertion that all or even most of those with an SSA will be abusers.

The sin of lust affects heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.

 

[Ryan29]

Did he bring any of those magic doves?

 

[vocatio]

Pope Benedict XVI is asserting that there is a criminal element with pediphilia. However, he makes no assertion about whether SSA is the root of the problem or homosexuality.

It is true that sexual sin is both serious and a struggle for many if not most. The issue is that there was an “atmoshphere” it seemed in the time frame of the abuses. We went through the “if it feels good do it” in the 60’s and 70’s… Aids put a stop to that nonsense to some degree. But the effects of sin remain. Many people, both adults and children were hurt because of clerical abuse as in Protestant faiths and even public schools. Statistically, it appears from my initial study on the matter that the clergy were far less a problem than other groups.

Being single is very difficult and we should be strong for our clergy. Yes they are our spiritual leaders, but when they show signs of struggle we need to pray for them and if necessary STOP them before they get too far. Don’t sit politely behind the scenes and set peole up by allowing improper behavior. Sometimes very beautiful women come on to priests very strong. That’s not an excuse, but we are wounded by sin.

Don’t make mountain ranges out of mountains. I was a victim that resisted and turned in 2, one seminarian and the other a priest. I do not have SSA problems. The seminarian seemed to be using the seminary as his love nest and had at least 3 or 4 major seminarians, one recently ordained into the transitional deacon, that were gay. How do I know. I got into a very uncomfortable situation that required a lot of lying to get out of smoothly. The seminarian was about 11 years older than me. The priest later thought he could do something slick and invited me to a Saturday sailing trip near home. I had no clue. I still did not know woman, and definitely didn’t know man. I turned both in and both were repremanded.

The painful part was that it scandalized me. No one said anything and they knew. They were supposed to be my brothers in Christ, but failed to warn me what was happening. I was overprotected I guess and very naive to that kind of life. A seminarian there recently told me about the “old days”, my days, when a lot of crazy things happened. I know a lot more stories dealing with that I saws with my own eyes. At one point I was convinced that a married priesthood would solve the problem, until recently I looked at the comparitive statistics of Protestant “clergy”. An couple of Orthodox priests pointed out the problem with my thinking a year and a half ago. They of course tried to blame it on the sin of the Latin Church’s schism. I did enough research to deal with it. I found at least 2 priests that were catalyst to my coming home after running like the wind believing the Church just might be the “whore of babylon” as we often hear. But how could I explain all that Catholic scripture that haunted me over the years.

“Would you leave Peter because of Judas?” That’s what someone said on CA Radio. It broke me. Sure those men sinned and those women and men that failed to guide me and educate me, but ultimately it fell on my own shoulders and the Holy Spirit led me back with my wife and 3 children. a Year and a half too late, because I really wanted more children but my wife was not Catholic in conscience as I was through my journey all those years. Ironic. But God is making good out of all this.

Stop complaining so much and start praying for them…Act like adults around your priests and seminarians. Be fatherly and motherly to the younger men and as much of a brother as a man can be to those older or the same age. We should practice our faith well and inspire our spiritual leaders to orthodox Catholicism. That is not disrespectful at all. Christ speak through the priests in the sacraments. We all should empty out and allow God to fill us up to become more like Christ.

There, I said it. We need to be good examples to priests too. Slap them on the hand when they do dumb things, but do it charitably without scandal. There is a time to throw it up to the bishops and then to God even more so in prayer. We need to raise our children right and not put this on the priests as if they are our physical parents. All men are called to be spiritual fathers as all women are called to be spiritual mothers. That is how in part how our priests will learn to be good priests.

 

[blessedtoo]

What I’m hearing is that some groups have specifically asked to meet with the pope and this has been refused.

.

I would like to know what “groups” have asked to meet with B16. There are quite a few so called “Catholic” groups who claim that they advocate for victims, but also agitate for women priesthood, homosexual marriage, and contraception. Are these the groups that want an audience?

 

[Godi]

The sin of lust affects heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.

All molesters of under age children are not homosexual but all men that rape male children are homosexual.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

From what I’ve seen, meeting with victim groups does little good.

The Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Sean O’Malley, met with the victims groups. After the meeting, the group spokesperson immediately appeared before the television cameras and said that the Cardinal apologized and offered to help them in any way he could, but it wasn’t enough.

In other words, they went in with an agenda that could not be met by the Cardinal or the Pope. The victims of this group, received huge settlements, but it still was enough. Also, many of the members of these groups, are not actually victims, but homosexual activist, who are attempting to change the Church, when it comes to gay marriage and other homosexual issues.

My question to them is, “why didn’t you sue your parents?” After all, they’re the one’s who actually did nothing to protect you.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to justify the mistakes the Church made, or the priest who in fact committed these abuses.

However, the Church for the most part, didn’t treat these instances any different than other institutions at the time. They followed the recommendations of the psychiatrist and law enforcement of the time. Keeping sexual abuse cases quiet, was what all the professionals advised, for the good of the victim, who would suffer from the stigma that these things caused in those days.

Also, the victims don’t seem to understand that we Catholics are the Catholic church. The enormous lawsuit settlements they received, didn’t hurt the priest, or the Bishops, but rather, it hurt us parishioners, who are the one’s who have to pay by watching our parishes close down and Church property being sold off. We’re the one’s they’re suing, not the Pope.

Jim

 

[cathgal]

All molesters of under age children are not homosexual but all men that rape male children are homosexual.

Can we call it homosexual pedophile?

 

[vocatio]

philadelphiadistrictattorney.com/images/Grand_Jury_Report.pdf

Jim,
I see your point. But as a young man in serious turmoil the “pastoring” element towards the “victims” was inexcusable. Now I know that Protestants don’t do any better. But we are Catholic and we should do much better at this sort of thing. However, when we look into history we find wars between groups, thus the Great Schism.

I never pursued legal means of restitution. Who wants to be drug out in public? Not me. I use my experience as a means to teach…educate. The scars from just being attempted are very evident, but much better since my family came home with me to Catholic Church after leaving for a very fundametalist church that evangelizes everyone, including Catholics to repent and turn to the “truth” as they see it. At the time it made more sense that homosexual priests and seminarians that would have created an entire generation of potential preditors.

A year ago when this was quoted to me by “rote” from our associate pastor I just bit my tongue. I insured that I have serious issues in suiting anyone that is Christian. The bible cleanly tells us not to. But it’s sad that so many had to scream bloody murder just to get Bishops and the Holy Father to do anything at all. That in itself brought tremendous scandal all Christians throughout the world. Shame.

The problem is tha we have become permissive in our society. Homosexuality has been overlooked or even excused. The problem is that this perverted view of sexuality is affecting children, and it doesn’t stop there. Look at HBO and Showtime. There are programs that reveal the direction of the new perversions…robotic …cyber sex partners. It’s advancing everyday. Soon people won’t have to marry or even know anyone to have a “satisfying” sexual experience they way they want it. This is frightening. We should be lobbying congress to put holds on this technology. The persuit of happiness does not include perversion.

God help us all.

 

[whatevergirl]

Under JPII, Cardinal Ratzinger was one of the most powerful men in the Vatican. He was a strict enforcer of church doctrine and got the nickname “Cardinal No.” Starting in 1981 and until his election as Pope, he was in charge of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, the Vatican office that oversees doctrines of faith and morals. (Formerly known as the Holy Inquisition.) BXVI is extremely knowledgeable and intelligent, he is a scholar. In his Vatican position he had to have extensive knowledge about the sexual abuse problems in the United States and elsewhere. That is why the inquiry is relevant.

That could be why he is personally ‘ashamed,’ as the title states.

 

[jay29]

The sin of lust affects heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.

Yep. BOTH practicing homosexuals and child molesters have caved to the temptations of the demon of lust. There is no way around that. Both will send you to hell if unforgiven and unrepented before death.

 

[elgar]

I just finished reading a real eye-opening book “Sacrilige,” by Catholic writer, Leon Podles. I would recommend to everyone here, but it is very very graphic in description of what went on between abusive clergy and their victims. Be forewarned.

Podles expains very clearly the difference between pedophilia–the attraction of adults to young children, and that of ephobilia–men attracted to post-pubesent males. The latter a homosexual problem prevalent in the Catholic priesthood–well over 80% of the reported cases. The pedophile cases are tiny by comparison and typically don’t prefer boys over girls and happened much more frequently 50-60 years ago. Those priests are dead.

According to Podles, no pope has ever agreed to sit down with any victim including JP2.

 

[Annie_B]

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/15/AR2008041500281.html?nav=rss_email/components

(from the article)

---

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE, April 15 – Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday that he is “deeply ashamed” of the Catholic church’s clergy sexual abuse scandal and said seminaries would not tolerate pedophiles…

***He said the church needs to act on three levels: a legal level, a pastoral level and a level at which seminaries are reformed so they don’t harbor pedophiles. ***
***“I would not speak in this moment about homosexuality, but pedophilia, which is a different thing,” Benedict said. “We would absolutely exclude pedophiles from the sacred ministry . . . because it is more important to have good priests [than] to have many priests.” ***

---

Isn’t it a shame the pope just doesn’t get it. Or he gets it and …
He IS a really smart guy.

THIS IS NOT A PEDOPHILIA PROBLEM - IT IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HOMOSEXUAL PROBLEM. The number of actual “pedophiles” in the priesthood is minimal. The number of homosexuals in the priesthood is off the charts.

80% of the victims were male. - 80%

READ THE JOHN JAY REPORT
bishop-accountability.org/reports/2004_02_27_JohnJay/index.html

The great majority of these victims were NOT PREPUBESCENT.
67% were age 12 and above.
80 % were male.

---

It Is a pedophile problem! ANYONE who sexually assaults a minor is a pedophile - homosexual or not. The issue is not how many boys vs. girls were assaulted, but that it happened at all. Good that the Pope is so ashamed! Maybe now we are getting somewhere…By the way, as I understand it, ~being~ a homosexual is not a sin, but ~acting~ on it is.

Annie

 

[rlg94086]

It Is a pedophile problem! ANYONE who sexually assaults a minor is a pedophile - homosexual or not. The issue is not how many boys vs. girls were assaulted, but that it happened at all. Good that the Pope is so ashamed! Maybe now we are getting somewhere…By the way, as I understand it, ~being~ a homosexual is not a sin, but ~acting~ on it is.

Annie

Annie,

Respectfully, that is not true.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article642369.ece

With predictable fury, Michele Elliott, the director of the children’s charity Kidscape, rounded on the policeman’s wish to reclassify those who have sex with youngsters between 13 and 16: “He is saying they are not paedophiles and they bloody well are.”

If Miss Elliott would care to borrow my dictionary, she would discover that they bloody well aren’t. **A paedophile is defined as one who is sexually attracted to children; children are defined as those between birth and puberty. What our teen fanciers are, in fact, is ephebophiliacs: adults attracted to postpubescent adolescents. **
…
By contrast, to have sex with somebody who has passed the age of puberty is merely to defy a law of Man — and a pretty arbitrary law at that. We cannot agree between one border and the next at what age a boy or girl is emotionally developed enough to give informed consent: Malta and The Netherlands think 12, Canada and Italy weigh in at 14, cautious Greece holds out for 15 and the good burghers of Iceland go as high as 17.

While this article deals with heterosexual ephebophilic relationships, it is reasonable to state that men who have sex with a postpubescent male are homosexual ephebophiliacs.

EDIT ADD: Please don’t tell me I am defending the priests’ actions in this case…I am not. They used a position of authority to prey on adolescent boys who often have conflicting/confusing feelings of sexual love and attraction. IOW…I personally would not consider it proper “informed consent,” even if it were legal at their ages.

 

[Shoshana]

All molesters of under age children are not homosexual but all men that rape male children are homosexual.

Is this true? I have read many, many stories of fathers of families who molested their children, male and female alike. And they remain married.

 

[rlg94086]

Is this true? I have read many, many stories of fathers of families who molested their children, male and female alike. And they remain married.

No, I don’t believe it is true.

A pedophile is a pedophile, not necessarily homosexual. However, see my previous post, as any person, homosexual or heterosexual, who molests an adolescent, is not a pedophile.

 

[Shoshana]

No. A pedophile is a pedophile, not necessarily homosexual. However, see my previous post, as any person, homosexual or heterosexual, who molests an adolescent, is not a pedophile.

Thank you Robert!

 

[Godi]

Is this true? I have read many, many stories of fathers of families who molested their children, male and female alike. And they remain married.

There are alot of men that have stayed married to women and were homosexuals. Who’s was that New Jersey lov Gov?

 

[CreatioNova]

Male on male rape can also be about power, subjugation, humiliation etc … perpitrated by straight males …

 

[elgar]

Statiscally, pedophiles are more likely to be heterosexual. So let’s make a distinction. Ephebophiles are almost always homosexual. This is the REAL problem in the Catholic priest/bishop sex scandals that keeps getting swept under the rug by the defenders of homosexuality in the church. BTW, sex abuse is declining, due to media attention and aging clergy whose sex drives are waning.