Pope emphasizes need for reverence in liturgy, at meeting with priests of Rome [CC]

[Catholic_Press]

Pope Francis concentrated on the need for reverence in the sacred liturgy, as he met on February 19 with priests of the Rome diocese. After being introduced by Cardinal Agostino …

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[CarolNoel]

I would love to see reverence returned to our liturgy.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I would love to see reverence returned to our liturgy.

No question that reverence is vital to good liturgy. The problem becomes the definition of “reverence” – inasmuch as many seem to feel that the vernacular, the presence of laity in the sanctuary, the use of EMHC’s - or the Ordinary Form of the Mass itself – intrinsically mean that reverence cannot be present.

 

[ProVobis]

No question that reverence is vital to good liturgy. The problem becomes the definition of “reverence” – inasmuch as many seem to feel that the vernacular, the presence of laity in the sanctuary, the use of EMHC’s - or the Ordinary Form of the Mass itself – intrinsically mean that reverence cannot be present.

By intrinsically, do you mean by design?

 

[7_Sorrows]

I would love to see reverence returned to our liturgy.

Why do you see the liturgy as less reverent today?
I am a Catholic of only 6 1/2 years is why I ask.

I think bringing back the altar rail would help.

 

[Tigg]

No question that reverence is vital to good liturgy. The problem becomes the definition of “reverence” – inasmuch as many seem to feel that the vernacular, the presence of laity in the sanctuary, the use of EMHC’s - intrinsically mean that reverence cannot be present.

Reverence to me means primarily showing respect to God. It is a realization of His presence and appropriate response to it. It includes gifts of the HS (piety) and a sense of awe and fear of the Lord. I deleted one of your examples above (about the OF) to say the following about the ones left. That too much emphasis is being placed upon the horizontal dimension of worship is something clerics are beginning to notice and speak out against. I have personally witnessed what happens to parishes and the liturgy when too much focus is placed upon man and the community in lieu of Eucharistic adoration and faith in the Real Presence.

Man is being exalted in a misguided attempt to make them feel more appreciated and the numbers of unneeded laity (such as too many EMHC’s) is a most common abuse. Anthropocentric experiences rather than the supernatural are diminishing the sense of the transcendency of God.

 

[zz912]

I think bringing back the altar rail would help.

Agreed.

One of the worst things that has happened to the Church in quite some time was the removal of the altar rail.

 

[ProVobis]

I think bringing back the altar rail would help.

I don’t believe the Vatican ever called for their removal.

 

[CarolNoel]

Why do you see the liturgy as less reverent today?
I am a Catholic of only 6 1/2 years is why I ask.

I think bringing back the altar rail would help.

Silence before Mass so we can have a little prayer time. Ringing bells during the consecration, striking our breast at the same time, kneeling during the consecration.
Just a few of my thoughts. I have been a Catholic for 70 years.

 

[madtom]

Silence before Mass so we can have a little prayer time. Ringing bells during the consecration, striking our breast at the same time, kneeling during the consecration.
Just a few of my thoughts. I have been a Catholic for 70 years.

YES to the ringing of bells! as an altar boy in the 80’s I always rang the bells during the consecration, and I haven’t heard those bells in years. it sounds/feels so empty to me now, like there is zero acknowledgement of what is happening.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Silence before Mass so we can have a little prayer time. Ringing bells during the consecration, striking our breast at the same time, kneeling during the consecration.
Just a few of my thoughts. I have been a Catholic for 70 years.

I also like the ringing of the bells. The parish I attended when I joined the Catholic church rang the bells. The one I attend now does not.

 

[Tigg]

Silence before Mass so we can have a little prayer time. Ringing bells during the consecration, striking our breast at the same time, kneeling during the consecration.
Just a few of my thoughts. I** have been a Catholic for 70 years**.

Then you also remember there was silence *after *Mass as people exited to allow others to continue their prayer of thanksgiving. Our pastor does not allow applause after Mass, but it is quite common in other parishes and the signal for immediate noise and worldly distraction before one has even gotten out of their pew.

 

[Pulvis]

Pope Benedict XVI saw this and was working to restore the Mass to a more reverential, verticle experience. I believe He wrote a paper when still a Cardinal on the excesses that occured after the close of the Council, excesses that were never called for, but were legitimized under the spirit of Vatican Council II. For those who remember, and those who still have the opportunity to attend the E.F., it was not only more reverential, it was also a source of Catechesis that seems to be lacking in many O.F. Masses. But before anyone gets the wrong impression, I do believe that the O.F. can, and is offered in a reverential manner. Such as the Mass on EWTN which includes the use of latin, and is, in my opinion much closer to what Sacrosanctum Concillium intended.

 

[ProVobis]

Such as the Mass on EWTN which includes the use of latin, and is, in my opinion much closer to what Sacrosanctum Concillium intended.

The Latin Mass Society, which doesn’t oppose adding more Latin to the OF, has nonetheless put out a series of articles showing the difficulty with this.

lmschairman.org/search/label/Death%20of%20the%20Reform%20of%20the%20Reform

Incidentally, the ringing of the bells, among other things, is an example of non-verbal communication, covered in the articles. Non-verbal communication was all but removed during the 60’s, in favor of a total verbal Mass, amplified, ad populum, and in some national language. This served the purpose of removing much of the mystery around the celebration of Mass.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The Latin Mass Society, which doesn’t oppose adding more Latin to the OF, has nonetheless put out a series of articles showing the difficulty with this.

lmschairman.org/search/label/Death%20of%20the%20Reform%20of%20the%20Reform

Incidentally, the ringing of the bells, among other things, is an example of non-verbal communication, covered in the articles. Non-verbal communication was all but removed during the 60’s, in favor of a total verbal Mass, amplified, ad populum, and in some national language. This served the purpose of removing much of the mystery around the celebration of Mass.

Why did they want to remove the mystery of the Mass?
To me that is part of the beauty of the Mass.

I just finished reading Scott Hahn’s book The Lamb’s Supper.
Really is a wonderful book.

 

[ProVobis]

Why did they want to remove the mystery of the Mass?
To me that is part of the beauty of the Mass.

I agree. From the article,

“To say the Vetus Ordo [Old Mass] operates at another level is to state the obvious. You can’t even hear the most important bits - they are said silently. If you could hear them, they’d be in Latin. And yet, somehow, it has its supporters. It communicates something, not in spite of these barriers to verbal communication, but by means of the very things which are clearly barriers to verbal communication. The silence and the Latin are indeed among the most effective means the Vetus Ordo employs to communicate what it communicates: the mysterium tremendum, the amazing reality of God made present in the liturgy.”

There is more, of course.

 

[Tigg]

The Latin Mass Society, which doesn’t oppose adding more Latin to the OF, has nonetheless put out a series of articles showing the difficulty with this.

lmschairman.org/search/label/Death%20of%20the%20Reform%20of%20the%20Reform

Incidentally, the ringing of the bells, among other things, is an example of non-verbal communication, covered in the articles. Non-verbal communication was all but removed during the 60’s, in favor of a total verbal Mass, amplified, ad populum, and in some national language. This served the purpose of removing much of the mystery around the celebration of Mass.

Yes, the article explains the different types/levels of participation very well. Although it raises the hackles of some who perceive TLM go-ers as “elitist” those contemporary Catholics simply fail to perceive the mystery of the Mass because they have, perhaps,* never experienced it.* TLM attendees are not snobs, but because they have “touched” another level of participation they see a lack in some of the NO liturgies today. Try explaining that to someone who has only experienced the “verbal” element with an emphasis on community only.

 

[ProVobis]

Perhaps this is more in line with the OP, from the articles:

But it was an unkind fate that allowed the new mass to come to completion just when – elsewhere – the importance of non-verbal communication was being rediscovered.

This was what was missing from the Liturgical Movement. An appreciation of non-verbal communication is not incompatible with the writings of the earlier exponents, such as Guéranger, despite his emphasis on ‘understanding’. But as the movement develops, and turns into the movement to create the Novus Ordo, a blindness to non-verbal communication (and a parallel lack of interest in gestures and visual ceremonies) becomes increasingly evident and increasingly problematic.

But what was going on between the years 700 and 1930? How was it all those saints were formed by the liturgy? Contrary to the patronising assumptions of scholars like Josef Jungmann, they were participating, they were understanding, despite not hearing the words of the Canon, despite not understanding the Latin even when they did hear it. They understood it at a profound, contemplative level. This kind of engagement with the liturgy was, in fact, particularly intense, because it is not just intellectual. Don’t believe me: believe the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was composed when non-verbal communication was beginning to creep back into theology.

2711: ‘Entering into contemplative prayer is like entering into the Eucharistic liturgy: we “gather up” the heart, recollect our whole being under the prompting of the Holy Spirit, abide in the dwelling place of the Lord which we are, awaken our faith in order to enter into the presence of him who awaits us.’
2716: ‘Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God. Far from being passive, such attentiveness is the obedience of faith, the unconditional acceptance of a servant, and the loving commitment of a child. It participates in the “Yes” of the Son become servant and the Fiat of God’s lowly handmaid.’
2718: ‘Contemplative prayer is a union with the prayer of Christ insofar as it makes us participate in his mystery, the mystery of Christ is celebrated by the Church in the Eucharist, and the Holy Spirit makes it come alive in contemplative prayer so that our charity will manifest it in our acts.’

Isn’t this amazing? Non-verbal prayer is actually being proposed as the model for liturgical participation.

 

[agnes_therese]

Silence before Mass so we can have a little prayer time. Ringing bells during the consecration, striking our breast at the same time, kneeling during the consecration.
Just a few of my thoughts. I have been a Catholic for 70 years.

We have all that in my parish.

 

[OraLabora]

We have all that in my parish.

And in our nearby abbey. Our parishes are hit-or-miss though.

Something odd: our parish is actually a merger of 4 or 5 rural parishes into one “pastoral unit”, that is one parish with I think, 5 church buildings and different Mass times.

Now I live right smack between two small towns: exactly 10 km or so from two of the churches. The biggest church in the bigger town has always been very quiet before Mass. You could hear a pin drop, just the quiet shuffling of feet as people take their pews, with those already there praying or meditating quietly.

Occasionally, I attend my wife’s Anglican service at the smaller of the two towns, and it’s mayhem before their service. People talking loudly, kids, etc. etc. No quiet to pray whatsoever.

I thought it was an Anglican thing until I went to the Catholic church in the same town. Guess what, it was exactly the same. Go figure

Same parish, two churches barely 20 km apart, same priests rotating through them. One is quiet and reverent before Mass, the other one the exact opposite.