Pope emphasizes: 'you cannot love God outside of the Church' [CWN]

[shelby_sun]

So we should not preach the Gospel for fear of hurting someone’s feelings?

You can preach whatever you want whenever you want to whomever you want. I was taught that the Jews were God’s loyal, chosen people so I am not preaching to them. I have more respect for the entire Bible, The Old and The new testament, both God’s word right; yet, they do contract, just as The New Testament does within itself. Only God knows what it is all meant to bring. I chose to focus on my blessings and how to help others no matter what they chose to believe. We are not all meant to be evangelical, just as we are not all meant to be doctors. I use the gifts God gave me, you are free to do the same however you see fit.

 

[estesbob]

You can preach whatever you want whenever you want to whomever you want. I was taught that the Jews were God’s loyal, chosen people so I am not preaching to them. I have more respect for the entire Bible, The Old and The new testament, both God’s word right; yet, they do contract, just as The New Testament does within itself. Only God knows what it is all meant to bring. I chose to focus on my blessings and how to help others no matter what they chose to believe. We are not all meant to be evangelical, just as we are not all meant to be doctors. I use the gifts God gave me, you are free to do the same however you see fit.

That’s all well and good but we’re not talking about your feelings for my feelings, we’re talking about the teachings of the Church. As a Catholic you should be aware of them.

 

[Even_So]

The Church keeps records of who is baptized. They don’t keep records of their spiritual state of the godparents, I don’t believe.

Furthermore, I would be suspect of any church who would want to rebaptize me.

I didn’t mean the church wanting someone to do it, but someone wanting to be baptized again. And how would anyone know if someone wasn’t spiritually right unless they admitted to it?

 

[Even_So]

There is only One church. The Holy Catholic Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and headed by Pope Francis, the vicar of Christ.

From the Cathecism:

*846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: *
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

I just was looking for you to flat out call me ignorant. Of course, i will have to disagree with your first statement at the top. And if you seek God with a sincere heart, your conscience knows you need Jesus. But yet you fail to act. Will you be granted grace?

 

[estesbob]

I just was looking for you to flat out call me ignorant. Of course, i will have to disagree with your first statement at the top. And if you seek God with a sincere heart, your conscience knows you need Jesus. But yet you fail to act. Will you be granted grace?

That would be between them and God.

 

[Even_So]

So how does all this compare with Protestant baptisms? I presume that they also need to be baptized to be Christians.

As a protestant, i do not believe it personally. But it is a confirmation you believe in Jesus as your Saviour and most do it.

 

[glendab]

Hello Even.

I didn’t mean the church wanting someone to do it, but someone wanting to be baptized again. And how would anyone know if someone wasn’t spiritually right unless they admitted to it?

I can only think of two reasons a person would want re-baptism: they are either doing so to renounce fully and definitively their original Baptism and fit in with their new chosen community of believers or they are in a subconscious way yearning to have restore their Baptismal innocence which can actually happen in the Sacrament of Confession.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Even.

I just was looking for you to flat out call me ignorant. Of course, i will have to disagree with your first statement at the top. And if you seek God with a sincere heart, your conscience knows you need Jesus. But yet you fail to act. Will you be granted grace?

When the Church talks about invincible ignorance, it doesn’t do so as an insult and it doesn’t mean to. It is a state of life in which it is impossible for a person to come to knowledge of Jesus Christ and so decide to enter His Church.

I will say a few things that may help you. I too, am a convert and I was actually very ignorant of the teachings of the Church although I held college degree. When I began to find out what I knew, I considered myself a well educated idiot and used those exact words to describe how I felt about how ignorant I actually was. It was a sad fact. I had built up a spiritual life out of what few facts about God I knew were true along with a few speculations and guesses. And for a long time that was enough. I prayed every day and God did what He did, and I did what I did and nothing really mattered as long as I was happy. It was when I saw clearly how insufficient this was, that my mind opened to the possibility of more. I entered RCIA about a year later. I also need to say that when I considered myself the well educated idiot, I wasn’t fooling. I come from a family with more than one genius in it. Even my husband was one. By dad most definitely off the charts and worked for NASA. In the midst of all those smarts, I never learned the fundamentals of a faith that works. Now I have that gift and it truly is a gift from God. You should explore here and elsewhere. You are curious and I sense a genuine interest in finding the truth, but He is a Person who is divine. Ask Him for the gift of Faith. He will give it.

And if you get “called” ignorant, don’t take it as an insult. It isn’t meant to be. Rightly accepted it can supply the humility you need to let the door of your heart open to Jesus.

Glenda

 

[shelby_sun]

That’s all well and good but we’re not talking about your feelings for my feelings, we’re talking about the teachings of the Church. As a Catholic you should be aware of them.

I believe you were the one who brought up people’s feelings. I am quite aware of what the Church teaches. I am also aware of what I was taught at my Catholic Church by our priest. I am not saying what you should or should not do or believe as a Catholic or an individual. If you feel it is your calling to tell me what to do or believe feel free but you will be wasting your time. I am not going to say Jews will not be saved, ever. I will live that decision up to God. If you are absolutely sure what God will do, well then you would be God.

 

[estesbob]

I believe you were the one who brought up people’s feelings. I am quite aware of what the Church teaches. I am also aware of what I was taught at my Catholic Church by our priest. I am not saying what you should or should not do or believe as a Catholic or an individual. If you feel it is your calling to tell me what to do or believe feel free but you will be wasting your time. I am not going to say Jews will not be saved, ever. I will live that decision up to God. If you are absolutely sure what God will do, well then you would be God.

I didn’t say the Jews couldn’t be saved.That is not what the Church teaches .Please go back and read what I posted from the Cathecism.Their salvation comes through Christ and accordingly through the Church.

 

[Even_So]

Hello Even.

When the Church talks about invincible ignorance, it doesn’t do so as an insult and it doesn’t mean to. It is a state of life in which it is impossible for a person to come to knowledge of Jesus Christ and so decide to enter His Church.

I will say a few things that may help you. I too, am a convert and I was actually very ignorant of the teachings of the Church although I held college degree. When I began to find out what I knew, I considered myself a well educated idiot and used those exact words to describe how I felt about how ignorant I actually was. It was a sad fact. I had built up a spiritual life out of what few facts about God I knew were true along with a few speculations and guesses. And for a long time that was enough. I prayed every day and God did what He did, and I did what I did and nothing really mattered as long as I was happy. It was when I saw clearly how insufficient this was, that my mind opened to the possibility of more. I entered RCIA about a year later. I also need to say that when I considered myself the well educated idiot, I wasn’t fooling. I come from a family with more than one genius in it. Even my husband was one. By dad most definitely off the charts and worked for NASA. In the midst of all those smarts, I never learned the fundamentals of a faith that works. Now I have that gift and it truly is a gift from God. You should explore here and elsewhere. You are curious and I sense a genuine interest in finding the truth, but He is a Person who is divine. Ask Him for the gift of Faith. He will give it.

And if you get “called” ignorant, don’t take it as an insult. It isn’t meant to be. Rightly accepted it can supply the humility you need to let the door of your heart open to Jesus.

Glenda

Hi Glenda,
I’ll take being called ignorant it like a man and threaten to fight about it . But really, it’s an insult to anyone who doesn’t follow the Catholic Church. And would you mind saying a convert from what? If you have ever heard the phrase “convicted by the Holy Spirit”, that’s me. You are right, i keep an open mind as i have been to several churches, including Catholic. I didn’t realize the Catholic Church had different denominations like Protestants also do, so ise is lernin suntin heah.

 

[estesbob]

Hi Glenda,
I’ll take being called ignorant it like a man and threaten to fight about it .** But really, it’s an insult to anyone who doesn’t follow the Catholic Church**. And would you mind saying a convert from what? If you have ever heard the phrase “convicted by the Holy Spirit”, that’s me. You are right, i keep an open mind as i have been to several churches, including Catholic. I didn’t realize the Catholic Church had different denominations like Protestants also do, so ise is lernin suntin heah.

What else would you expect when you are in a Catholic Forum? The Catholic Church does not have different denominations.

 

[shelby_sun]

I didn’t say the Jews couldn’t be saved.That is not what the Church teaches .Please go back and read what I posted from the Cathecism.Their salvation comes through Christ and accordingly through the Church.

Haven’t you ever wondered if it was only the weakest of the Jews that need something beyond God alone. It was weak, lost Jews that need Christ and the Trinity to guide them on the different path to God. Solid, loyal Jews have only needed and followed God himself and I believe they will be saved for that. Of course, the Church preaches what it does or they would have many fewer follower. It says something that the Jews as a faith will not turn their back on the God they have always followed.

I still stand by the point the way too many people are focusing on others salvation over their own and I just don’t believe that is what is going to get them into heaven. I find it over whelming that anyone could think so highly of themselves as a Christian or individual that they think they should focus on what others are doing over their own sinful ways. It is a daily job for all of us no measure our own behavior, don’t you think?

 

[estesbob]

Haven’t you ever wondered if it was only the weakest of the Jews that need something beyond God alone. It was weak, lost Jews that need Christ and the Trinity to guide them on the different path to God. Solid, loyal Jews have only needed and followed God himself and I believe they will be saved for that. Of course, the Church preaches what it does or they would have many fewer follower. It says something that the Jews as a faith will not turn their back on the God they have always followed.

I still stand by the point the way too many people are focusing on others salvation over their own and I just don’t believe that is what is going to get them into heaven. I find it over whelming that anyone could think so highly of themselves as a Christian or individual that they think they should focus on what others are doing over their own sinful ways. It is a daily job for all of us no measure our own behavior, don’t you think?

I have never wondered that because its not true. We all need Christ to guide us to God. The idea that only “weak” Jews followed Christ is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read in this forums

I am sorry you have problems with the Church has teachings on this. I don’t know it its a case of you haven’t studied it or just disagree or both with it but the Church is clear-all Salvation is through the Church

 

[shelby_sun]

I have never wondered that because its not true. We all need Christ to guide us to God. The idea that only “weak” Jews followed Christ is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read in this forums

I am sorry you have problems with the Church has teachings on this. I don’t know it its a case of you haven’t studied it or just disagree or both with it but the Church is clear-all Salvation is through the Church

I love when people speak in facts. The simple matter is you do not know, you believe, you have faith, but you do not know. You can state it that way all you want. I feel my faith is stronger because I don’t know, yet I believe.

 

[McCall1981]

I love when people speak in facts. The simple matter is you do not know, you believe, you have faith, but you do not know. You can state it that way all you want. I feel my faith is stronger because I don’t know, yet I believe.

Um, if I may interject here, estesbob is explaining to you what the Church teaches. Knowing the content of what the Church teaches is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of looking it up in the Catechism, where the Church explicitly tells you what it teaches.

Whether you choose to believe that teaching is a matter of faith, but the teachings themselves are spelled out in the Catechism.

 

[estesbob]

I love when people speak in facts. The simple matter is you do not know, you believe, you have faith, but you do not know. You can state it that way all you want. I feel my faith is stronger because I don’t know, yet I believe.

But you don’t believe what the Church teaches. How does that make you stronger?

 

[estesbob]

Um, if I may interject here, estesbob is explaining to you what the Church teaches. Knowing the content of what the Church teaches is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of looking it up in the Catechism, where the Church explicitly tells you what it teaches.

Whether you choose to believe that teaching is a matter of faith, but the teachings themselves are spelled out in the Catechism.

I am still rather stunned by a Catholic describing those who followed Jesus as :weak Jews" who lost their trust in God.

 

[shelby_sun]

I have never wondered that because its not true. We all need Christ to guide us to God. The idea that only “weak” Jews followed Christ is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read in this forums

I am sorry you have problems with the Church has teachings on this. I don’t know it its a case of you haven’t studied it or just disagree or both with it but the Church is clear-all Salvation is through the Church

Yes, as a forum elder this is the most ludicrous thing you have read on this forum, please! You are going with that extreme affect. I haven’t been on this site as long as you and I have read many more ludicrous things.

When did I ever say “I had a problem with the what the Church teaches”? See that is what people like you do to twist things. I only said what I was taught and what I believe. I never said I was right. I find it completely arrogant to speak as if everything you believe is fact, but that is just what I think, it doesn’t mean I am right.

You see I am fully prepared to be wrong in how I feel because I am being honest with how I see things and what I believe, I am not just saying what will get me saved like you are. God knows my heart and he knows why you do and say what you do and why you do it. The difference is I am willing to go to hell for God, he just needs to say the word, and I would not argue. Would you?