Pope Francis – married men could be ordained priests if world's bishops agree on it

  • Thread starter Thread starter CWM31
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Catholic parishes out in the US can be very large, I think there are over 2000 parishioners per priest in my city.

How can parishes afford to pay the priest enough so that his family could live off of it?
I wonder about this aspect as well. I hear people grumble about the Church always asking for more money, and yet they want married priests? I realize there are exceptions, and I know there are terrific married priests, but I’m not sure about the prudence of it being a norm, at least not here in America. St. Paul seemed pretty positive about the benefits of celibacy. It also makes sense that if the priest is in persona Christi, then celibacy is a powerful witness to that.

It poses an interesting discussion cast in the light of our contraceptive culture though. I read an article written by a Lutheran about ministry and contraception. He posited that part of the wide-spread acceptance of contraception within Protestantism is due to the married pastor and demanding family ethic of being a model family. It’s more difficult to be open to and father a lot of children, while being the father of your larger family in your church. (If anyone is interested in it, I’ll provide the link. It’s a very interesting read.) I also think the priestly duties of being available for sacraments is a bit different from some of the Evangelical pastor experience, but that may just be my ignorance speaking.

On the other hand, married priests might be a powerful witness to the goodness of family life, which is very needed. I’m hesitant though. My dad is retired military, so we certainly learned to sacrifice and learned a great deal. I still think it’s different from priestly ministry though. Just more to think about.
 
The difference is that Eastern churches haven’t been heavily influenced by Western Protestantism. People in the West view married priests very differently from those in the East. In the East it’s part of the culture, but not here. Also, life in the West tends to be a lot more hectic because we are so driven by the Protestant work ethic and money structures. Western culture isn’t as welcoming a place for a married priesthood as the East. And the Latin Church is generally much larger with proportionally larger parishes, as well. I don’t believe a one-on-one comparison can be made or is all that useful in discussing a married priesthood in the West. 🙂
Well, it may be time to throw off the influence of Western Protestantism and return to our roots.
 
I’m not getting confused at all I personally think priests should be able to marry, also I think married men should be able to become priests, nothing confusing in that. I think the problem would be that people don’t want married priests.

How many priests has left to get married and have children, maybe if there was ever a day that everyone agreed some might come back, there has to be a way forward as there aren’t enough priests to go around as there use to be in some countries. Where I live we have four priest being cut down to two and they will have to ran around covering all the churches without doing more the three masses on a Sunday.
 
I’m not getting confused at all I personally think priests should be able to marry, also I think married men should be able to become priests, nothing confusing in that. I think the problem would be that people don’t want married priests.

How many priests has left to get married and have children, maybe if there was ever a day that everyone agreed some might come back, there has to be a way forward as there aren’t enough priests to go around as there use to be in some countries. Where I live we have four priest being cut down to two and they will have to ran around covering all the churches without doing more the three masses on a Sunday.
And in these woeful economic times how is a parish to afford 4 priest all with families to support? Families bring a whole host of problems with them. Properly encouraging vocations in our young people would solve everything.
 
Inevitable follow up question to come (more of a high percentage “prediction” than prophecy really):

:eek: - “Could same sex married men … (or women) etc. etc. … if the Bishops agree?”

:hmmm: mmmm - (NO!) < In case any took THAT Q seriously.
 
Thanks for these reminders. 🙂

The article is quite good on the whole, though its take off point - emphasizing a controversial solution to the overall “priest shortage” problem that is unlikely to be coming any time soon - seems to be emphasized for its headline power more than its substance.

**A priest shortage works to the ends of Satan - **that is to say, Satan would love it if the mass was not celebrated anywhere at all and that true priests would not be able to be found. It appears that in some places (as in the article Mexico and parts of Brazil) where there are Deacons but no priests, masses begin to get scarce. Two or three times per year. :confused:

**Bishops can “make priests”. AND “make priests faster” than they do. **And the jump to making already married men into priests (a popular secular solution to the problem) has happened a little in the cases of some “converts” who held that rank in other Communions.

But I see some anomalies elsewhere; solutions that could be done now to feed the sheep.
  • Consider ordaining new priests closer to the probation period used by the ***early Church ***… which was quite quick. Notwithstanding that mistakes could still be made and that the apostles (like Peter, Paul and John) sometimes had to correct Church leaders in some communities – the Evangelization got done.
  • A true **emphasis on the sacramental aspects of “already priests” **over the pressures of running the “business aspects” of the parish could mean a greater availability of the sacraments to the faithful. Beginning with “retired priests” - let this be “retired from the secular and business aspects” concentrating more fully upon the things that only a priest can do. Sacraments, more authoritative teaching than laypersons can do themselves.
  • Between taking forever to ordain priests in the first place, and retiring veteran priests in the second place … the result is often “less priests” … hence less masses, less confessions, church closures, etc. Which - is not “good business” either come to think of it.
  • Before jumping to “let’s ordain married men!” - consider ordaining as many Deacons, “Brothers”, and other “viri probati”** proven UNmarried men **who are already committed to doing the Lord’s work for the rest of their lives. They don’t have to accept this “further call” of course, but if a Bishop asked an unmarried Deacon to “become a priest” for the good of the Diocese - how many would say yes?
  • And how LONG would the promotion process take? Or better - how quickly can a Bishop ordain a man he is sure of to the priesthood? Should a cornucopia of educational and other prerequisites (taking years to accomplish) be so ardently adhered to while the sheep go hungry? The Bishops themselves can ordain. And quite quickly if need be - especially where older, more “proven” per orthodoxy unmarried Catholic men are concerned.
Older (single) men … sometimes quite YOUNG … are excluded from being accepted as Diocesan priests or to the Seminaries sometimes. I’m talking 30s. There is a preference for the just out of High School or College men (teens to early 20s) to be accepted to seminaries in some Diocese’s “system”. Rationale: By then a person should know if he has the call. Why wasn’t becoming a priest the man’s “first priority”? But this eliminates some very fine candidates who have perhaps experienced life a bit more than the “ideal” but somewhat sheltered Seminary candidate.

On earth the Bishops are the “master of the harvest”. They should ordain more priests if they can. The overall master of course is Jesus. And we can pray that he blesses the Church with all that it needs. 🙂
Great suggestions …

I would add that - in reference to ordaining deacons there should be no reason we cannot ordain married PD’s who are older and who’s children are grown.

Peace
James
 
And in these woeful economic times how is a parish to afford 4 priest all with families to support? Families bring a whole host of problems with them. Properly encouraging vocations in our young people would solve everything.
Thats four priest covering 5 churches then in the summer will be two priests covering five churches, not four priest in one parish
 
Thats four priest covering 5 churches then in the summer will be two priests covering five churches, not four priest in one parish
And so four families for those parishes to support, as well? Not workable when they can hardly keep priests now.
 
I wonder how far this will get especially since they haven’t reached a definite agreement regarding Deacons and perpetual continence.

As it stands, I do believe some married couples could do that, but it doesn’t seem like it would add MORE, significant number, to the priesthood. Perpetual continence for a married couple is very hard.

But, if they were to agree to it, then it could be conceivable.
I could see why he said they would need to discuss it, Bishops, that is.

“Clerics in the Western Church, even those married, are bound by Canon 277 (and by the unbroken and unanimous tradition behind that canon) to observe perfect and perpetual continence. This thesis, though it surprises most and astounds some, is not offered lightly. The obligation is firmly grounded in Western law and tradition and has, in fact, withstood every attempt to repudiate it over the centuries, even during periods (such as obtain now) of widespread inadvertence to the requirement.” Dr Peters
Dr. Peters has been responded to by the Vatican and he is wrong. Men who are not celibate are not required to exercise ppc.
 
Dr. Peters has been responded to by the Vatican and he is wrong. Men who are not celibate are not required to exercise ppc.
Then I guess his point is why don’t they change the canon.
 
Most rectories I’ve seen aren’t big enough for a family to live in – they only accommodate one or two priests. Priests don’t have to pay rent to live in these rectories, but they certainly couldn’t afford to rent a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment or house.

Priests in my diocese simply aren’t paid enough to support a family.
Parishioners cannot afford to put more in the collection basket.

As for seminary training, it’s one thing for the diocese to foot the bill for the single men attending them. But to pay for housing and all other expenses for a seminarian’s family would be quite an investment.
 
And in these woeful economic times how is a parish to afford 4 priest all with families to support? Families bring a whole host of problems with them. Properly encouraging vocations in our young people would solve everything.
People have been teaching at private schools for decades, and private schools don’t pay teachers enough to raise a family on. We can’t assume that the priest’s wife won’t be working, and we shouldn’t expect the family’s lifestyle to conform to the unrealistically wealthy standard of many modern cities and suburbs.
 
Most rectories I’ve seen aren’t big enough for a family to live in – they only accommodate one or two priests. Priests don’t have to pay rent to live in these rectories, but they certainly couldn’t afford to rent a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment or house.

Priests in my diocese simply aren’t paid enough to support a family.
Parishioners cannot afford to put more in the collection basket.

As for seminary training, it’s one thing for the diocese to foot the bill for the single men attending them. But to pay for housing and all other expenses for a seminarian’s family would be quite an investment.
Why would you have to? Just make arrangements for married men to go through the program at a slower rate, and expect them to hold down an outside job during seminary. 🤷
 
As someone once said “if married priests were the answer to the shortage, we’d be trying to convert Protestant ministers for that purpose”.
From what I hear, we have been! 👍

And I certainly think we should continue.
 
Most rectories I’ve seen aren’t big enough for a family to live in – they only accommodate one or two priests. Priests don’t have to pay rent to live in these rectories, but they certainly couldn’t afford to rent a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment or house.

Priests in my diocese simply aren’t paid enough to support a family.
Parishioners cannot afford to put more in the collection basket.

As for seminary training, it’s one thing for the diocese to foot the bill for the single men attending them. But to pay for housing and all other expenses for a seminarian’s family would be quite an investment.
Let me start by stating that I am quite happy wearing a dalmatic and have no ambition to wear a chasable.

There is no need to enlarge rectories or budgets. Either way this would include only a relatively small number of men and there is no reason why these priests couldn’t be employed either in the Church at full time positions already there or work in the secular world to provide for a family.

To think that these men will be moving into rectories with their wives and little crumb crunchers is trying to place the appearance of the current parish priest onto this possibility of a “new type” of priest.

I see no reason that if I were ordained into the priesthood that basically the only thing that would change is the fact that my authority to preside over the sacraments would grow. That’s about it. Eucharist and confession and anointing of the sick would be added to list already there. I don’t see anything more than that happening.

I owne a home and my wife teaches school and serves as youth minister. I ask you all who worry about rectories, church property at death, and money to pay me, what in my personal status would change if I were one of the few chosen to be ordained priests?
 
I owne a home and my wife teaches school and serves as youth minister. I ask you all who worry about rectories, church property at death, and money to pay me, what in my personal status would change if I were one of the few chosen to be ordained priests?
I don’t think much would change.

In my every-day experience, when people casually suggest we should have more married priests, the undercurrent seems to be that celibacy is a bad or unnatural thing, and that celibacy should be the exception to the rule. I don’t think that’s the best grounds for a wide-spread change in policy. But, I’m just a laywoman. 🙂
 
I don’t think much would change.

In my every-day experience, when people casually suggest we should have more married priests, the undercurrent seems to be that celibacy is a bad or unnatural thing, and that celibacy should be the exception to the rule. I don’t think that’s the best grounds for a wide-spread change in policy. But, I’m just a laywoman. 🙂
I agree with you 100% if it were to be the future it would be a very limited number and only by need of a certain area. Celibate priest would remain as it should, the nirm.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top