Pope Francis: ‘Evolution … is not inconsistent with the notion of creation’

[buffalo]

That is absolutely contrary to evidence and any scientific understanding I have every heard of. If anyone has deleterious mutations that make that individual less suited to survival and procreation, then that mutation will die out and those that do not have that mutation will increase in numbers. That is the direct consequence of micro-evolution, which apparently even you believe in.

Perhaps you are not as well informed as you could be.

Epigenetics has a part to play in adaptation (aka micro evo)

There are a few more things to ponder in this post - Our Fragile Intellect

and

Past 5,000 years prolific for changes to human genome

and

Designed changes vs random changes

and

Epigenetics, Epigenetics and more epigenetics.

Read them and let’s discuss. Take your time there is much to digest.

 

[JordanJD]

Reading the comments by the “creationist” and “literalist” crowd here really shows they are less Catholic and more Muslim in their beliefs. We Catholics understand the Bible to be influenced by God but working through various peoples and cultures and times throughout several thousand years, many of those writers writing in ways that would seem alien to us, kind of like how walking through the library not every book you read is going to be a straight up textbook

More fundamentalist Muslims believe, however, that the Quran was directly given to the prophet by the angel Gabriel word-for-word from what God dictated. So the Quran in their belief is literally exactly as God directed to be written down in the Arabic language

So really "creationists"and their Christian fundamentalist buddies are wahhabi at heart

 

[Path_Finder]

Time Magazine article on this issue: time.com/3545844/pope-francis-evolution-creationism/

(apologies if someone else posted this already).

 

[estesbob]

Reading the comments by the “creationist” and “literalist” crowd here really shows they are less Catholic and more Muslim in their beliefs. We Catholics understand the Bible to be influenced by God but working through various peoples and cultures and times throughout several thousand years, many of those writers writing in ways that would seem alien to us, kind of like how walking through the library not every book you read is going to be a straight up textbook

More fundamentalist Muslims believe, however, that the Quran was directly given to the prophet by the angel Gabriel word-for-word from what God dictated. So the Quran in their belief is literally exactly as God directed to be written down in the Arabic language

So really "creationists"and their Christian fundamentalist buddies are wahhabi at heart

Why does it matter if some Catholics believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis?

 

[on_the_hill]

Why does it matter if some Catholics believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis?

Nothing. Except generally speaking, Catholics are not Bible literalists. Aside from that, the Genesis literalists insist that Catholics who follow the Church on this matter are somehow *not *Catholic.

 

[JordanJD]

Why does it matter if some Catholics believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis?

Because this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[buffalo]

Nothing. Except generally speaking, Catholics are not Bible literalists. Aside from that, the Genesis literalists insist that Catholics who follow the Church on this matter are somehow *not *Catholic.

Actually, Catholics read the Bible literally, that is, what the author intended to convey.

 

[Kephart]

Actually, Catholics read the Bible literally, that is, what the author intended to convey.

The problem with this, in my experience, is that the definition of “literal” seems to vary from group to group. Although I agree with your definition, the word means something different to Fundamentalists and often to students of textual criticism.

 

[buffalo]

The problem with this, in my experience, is that the definition of “literal” seems to vary from group to group. Although I agree with your definition, the word means something different to Fundamentalists and often to students of textual criticism.

That is why I stick to the catechism.

The senses of Scripture
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two *senses *of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83
117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

 

[Kephart]

That is why I stick to the catechism.

Me too!

But my point was that unless two parties agree to stipulate a definition of the term, discussion will prove to be unfruitful.

 

[Potter]

Philosophy and religion are not the same. But yes, Darwinism has risen to a religion.

Perhaps if you conflate evolution with progress, then it has became a religion through progressivism, especially the “scientific materialist” kind pushed by Marx, Lenin, and company. But evolutionary change needn’t be good or wise – look at dodos and penguins!

 

[truetofaith]

So I have a question for those who believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis.

It’s probably been asked before and debated to death but here goes.

Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons ?

Keep in mind, they were created, not born from mother’s of their own.

Jim

Good question…all these years, I never thought about that.

 

[boar2roar]

Reading the comments by the “creationist” and “literalist” crowd here really shows they are less Catholic and more Muslim in their beliefs. We Catholics understand the Bible to be influenced by God but working through various peoples and cultures and times throughout several thousand years, many of those writers writing in ways that would seem alien to us, kind of like how walking through the library not every book you read is going to be a straight up textbook

More fundamentalist Muslims believe, however, that the Quran was directly given to the prophet by the angel Gabriel word-for-word from what God dictated. So the Quran in their belief is literally exactly as God directed to be written down in the Arabic language

So really "creationists"and their Christian fundamentalist buddies are wahhabi at heart

Reading comments by evos and darwinists really shows how they are more deist and agnostic than christian in their beliefs. We catholics understand that god created man in his image and not through some random process in a chain of other organisms. Many of those writers wrinting that way would seem stange to us, kind of like believers in god who deny inteligent design.

So really evos and their darwinist buddies are millitant athiests at heart.

 

[Kephart]

We catholics understand that god created man in his image and not through some random process in a chain of other organisms.

If God created and used Evolution as a creative agent, then the process is not random. So I find no contradiction in Catholics believing that God did so.

 

[buffalo]

Reading comments by evos and darwinists really shows how they are more deist and agnostic than christian in their beliefs. We catholics understand that god created man in his image and not through some random process in a chain of other organisms. Many of those writers wrinting that way would seem stange to us, kind of like believers in god who deny inteligent design.

So really evos and their darwinist buddies are millitant athiests at heart.

Pretty much. Survey said - most (80% or so if I remember correctly) evolutionary biologists are atheist convinced by working in the field. Others, if they express doubts, have to find another career.

 

[boar2roar]

If God created and used Evolution as a creative agent, then the process is not random. So I find no contradiction in Catholics believing that God did so.

So do you think god knew about humans arising? If he did than you have some new theory of preplanned goal based evolution.

 

[buffalo]

If God created and used Evolution as a creative agent, then the process is not random. So I find no contradiction in Catholics believing that God did so.

Try to convince evolutionary biologists of that. :nope:

The issue is it doesn’t fit. Catholics understand Eve came from Adam. Evo does not square.

Better: God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.

 

[buffalo]

So do you think god knew about humans arising? If he did than you have some new theory of preplanned goal based evolution.

I have never seen it demonstrated. It is ID even though they squirm to avoid saying it.

 

[Al_Moritz]

So do you think god knew about humans arising? If he did than you have some new theory of preplanned goal based evolution.

Of course God knew. After all, He is outside time. For Him everything exists in an instant. This obviously also implies that He didn’t have to ‘wait’ for evolution to develop either.

 

[buffalo]

Of course God knew. After all, He is outside time. For Him everything exists in an instant. This obviously also implies that He didn’t have to ‘wait’ for evolution to develop either.

Genesis 1 is written from God’s perspective. You might agree with this then:

Imagine a rolled up tape measure. God sees all the layers at once. We live on the tape and have to look past all the graduations.