Pope Francis: ‘Evolution … is not inconsistent with the notion of creation’

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Ah, here is the rub!

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC337021/
The taxonomic status of Neanderthals lies at the center of the modern human origins debate. Proponents of the single-origin model often view this group as a distinct species with little or no contribution to the evolution of modern humans. Adherents to the regional continuity model consider Neanderthals a subspecies or population of Homo sapiens, which contributed significantly to the evolution of early modern Europeans.
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This subject is impacted by the ‘Out of Africa’ theory that is now in competition with the Sahara Pump theory that sees intra special variations among earlier migrants outside of Africa.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory
Since the ‘Out of Africa’ theory is a crutch of some ideologues, it is no wonder the whole subject now riven with nonsense.
 
grannymh said:
I am so happy that I have the guts to believe Divine Revelation.

:extrahappy:
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That is great that makes you happy. I am happy that God has given us a puzzle with millions and millions of piece that we have been able to uncover over time. He has given us great means and insight to figure things out and put some of the pieces together.

I always find it uplifting when someone discovers a new cure for a terrible disease or a new planet or a new species. God has allowed and guided the world to new discoveries everyday. I am not sure why so many repeatedly focus on things they happened at the begging of time over dealing with and focusing on what is happening in the world today, children being abused or sold, people starving, the wars and killings going on all over the world.

I do not believe God is constantly guiding us back to this issue. IMO He is trying to help us deal with the present and make the world for all, not just Catholics, for the future.
 
shelby_sun said:
That is great that makes you happy. I am happy that God has given us a puzzle with millions and millions of piece that we have been able to uncover over time. He has given us great means and insight to figure things out and put some of the pieces together.

I always find it uplifting when someone discovers a new cure for a terrible disease or a new planet or a new species. God has allowed and guided the world to new discoveries everyday. I am not sure why so many repeatedly focus on things they happened at the begging of time over dealing with and focusing on what is happening in the world today, children being abused or sold, people starving, the wars and killings going on all over the world.

I do not believe God is constantly guiding us back to this issue. IMO He is trying to help us deal with the present and make the world for all, not just Catholics, for the future.
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👍
 
shelby_sun said:
That is great that makes you happy. I am happy that God has given us a puzzle with millions and millions of piece that we have been able to uncover over time. He has given us great means and insight to figure things out and put some of the pieces together.

I always find it uplifting when someone discovers a new cure for a terrible disease or a new planet or a new species. God has allowed and guided the world to new discoveries everyday. I am not sure why so many repeatedly focus on things they happened at the begging of time over dealing with and focusing on what is happening in the world today, children being abused or sold, people starving, the wars and killings going on all over the world.

I do not believe God is constantly guiding us back to this issue. IMO He is trying to help us deal with the present and make the world for all, not just Catholics, for the future.
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The Divine Revelation I believe in covers all of the above and then some.
👍

But sometimes, I have to stand up for the Divine Revelation flowing from the first three chapters of Genesis – because these Revelations are the base for human living. When we lose sight of basic human origin, the door swings open for justification of evil done to humankind as described above.

The human person is worthy of profound respect.
 
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…

Believing in God makes us all are creationists. It is a false division to make another ism out of the Creation Revelation.
 
grannymh said:
The Divine Revelation I believe in covers all of the above and then some.
👍

But sometimes, I have to stand up for the Divine Revelation flowing from the first three chapters of Genesis – because these Revelations are the base for human living. When we lose sight of basic human origin, the door swings open for justification of evil done to humankind as described above.

The human person is worthy of profound respect.
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The door always has and always will be open for justification of evil done to humankind…revelations or no revelations, whatever our origin. It’s all part of being human.
Our whole environment and fellow creature are worthy of respect too!
 
JimR-OCDS said:
VATICAN CITY (RNS) Pope Francis on Monday (Oct. 27) waded into the controversial debate over the origins of human life, saying the big bang theory did not contradict the role of a divine creator, but even required it.

The pope was addressing the plenary assembly of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, which gathered at the Vatican to discuss “Evolving Concepts of Nature.”

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.

Read More

Jim
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  1. When Pope Francis said “He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws he gave each one so they would reach their fulfillment.”
He was talking about, like the CAF TRACT says, " the human body developing from previous biological forms under Gods guidance," correct?
  1. When Pope Francis said "evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve. "
Was he talking about people, animals or both?

:
 
Darryl1958 said:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…

Believing in God makes us all are creationists. It is a false division to make another ism out of the Creation Revelation.
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Yes, that’s how it should be.

But so many people turn it into a dichotomy: either you believe the Bible or you “believe” science.

The challenge is to find and accept the right interpretation. It is so much easier, and safer, to bypass any interpretation and go for the literal meaning of every word.
 
Does anyone here know how the theory of cumulative evolution is viewed by Hindus and Buddhists? Not to try to derail, I am just intensely curious how their ideas about reincarnation would play into it.
 
RGCheek said:
Ah, here is the rub!

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC337021/

This subject is impacted by the ‘Out of Africa’ theory that is now in competition with the Sahara Pump theory that sees intra special variations among earlier migrants outside of Africa.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory
Since the ‘Out of Africa’ theory is a crutch of some ideologues, it is no wonder the whole subject now riven with nonsense.
Click to expand...
So humans and neanderthals are the same species that reproduced or a different species and were still able to reproduce? Or does it even matter?
 
Kelt said:
The door always has and always will be open for justification of evil done to humankind…revelations or no revelations, whatever our origin. It’s all part of being human.
Our whole environment and fellow creature are worthy of respect too!
Click to expand...
👍
 
What I find cool is how Pope Francis used to be a chemical technician, so when he talks about science he has a scientific background 😃
 
adawgj said:
What I find cool is how Pope Francis used to be a chemical technician, so when he talks about science he has a scientific background 😃
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And as a chemist knows what empirical science actually is. 👍
 
grannymh said:
I am so happy that I have the guts to believe Divine Revelation.

:extrahappy:
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Science is not a matter of Divine Revelation. 🤷
If you believe your scientific viewpoint is Divine Revelation, all kinds of really bad problems arise. The first commandment comes to mind. We need to let God be God, and accept that he can do things the way he wills.
 
Originally Posted by grannymh forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I am so happy that I have the guts to believe Divine Revelation. *

:extrahappy:
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clem456 said:
Science is not a matter of Divine Revelation. 🤷
If you believe your scientific viewpoint is Divine Revelation, all kinds of really bad problems arise. The first commandment comes to mind. We need to let God be God, and accept that he can do things the way he wills.
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May I gently and respectfully ask if you are referring to a particular post when you comment "If you believe your scientific viewpoint is Divine Revelation, all kinds of really bad problems arise. Post 726 simply refers to Divine Revelation.:extrahappy:

Or you may be making a general comment. In that case, when you have a specific question which would require knowing my scientific viewpoint, I will be delighted to respond. 😃
 
TMC said:
I disagree. To take on just one of your examples, the 4th Lateran Council (800 yrs ago) was countering both the notion that God did not create the universe, (i.e. that it had always existed), and that God did not create all of the universe. That Council said nothing about modern theories of creation (of which they knew nothing).
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The council didn’t have to know about modern theories of creation. The point is that the the council affirmed that God created all things at once by his own power,whereas theistic evolutionists say that God created species through gradual processes and that God gave nature the ability to create species on its own,according to his intentions. These views cannot both be true.
But even if you were right about ancient ideas on creation, how do you square your last statement with current Catholic teaching? It is beyond dispute that at least the last seven Popes do not agree that Catholics take the stories in Genesis as historically accurate. (They are real, of course, and true, but not historically accurate as that term is generally used today.)
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The popes never denied that the creation stories were historically accurate. That would be like saying that God did not create all things and that Adam and Eve did not exist and there was never an original sin and that creation never fell from perfect grace,and that all the other persons and events recorded in Genesis were not real. The popes acknowledged that the writers of scripture used the language of their times and cultures,but that does not mean they denied that Catholics take the stories as historically accurate,and it is not an admission that the stories are not historically accurate. Catholics have always taken the stories as history,because that is how the stories appear and how they are taught and preached. To judge against a historical understanding of the stories would be a presumptuous judgement not only on the intention of the writer,but also on historical reality.

Are we to deny the historical truth of statements in Genesis which say simply that God created things,just because Genesis has a few sentences that can be taken figuratively,or because of the style of writing?

And why make a separation between real and historically accurate? If the events and things and persons of Genesis were real,then the stories are historically accurate for that reason. Historical accuracy is not limited to particular details and exact chronology. Simple statements about the past that are true are also historically accurate.
 
Faith1960 said:
So humans and neanderthals are the same species that reproduced or a different species and were still able to reproduce? Or does it even matter?
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Well, apparently it depends on which camp the scientist you ask is in. Does he believe the ‘Out of Africa’ theory, in which case he would likely say that Neanderthals are a separate species, but if he is a ‘Sahara Pump’ believer, then he will consider Neanderthal a sub-species of human instead.

Apparently there is no consensus among scientists on the question.
 
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