Pope Francis: ‘Evolution … is not inconsistent with the notion of creation’

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RACJ said:
Leaf, what we do know is that mutations are usually neutral or negative. Yet you and other evos continue to believe that billions of positive mutations brought us to today, without negative mutations blowing it all apart. You can believe this, but there is no evidence to support your contention. :cool:
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Obviously, you have no clue about how evolution works. You appear to never have heard of something like gene duplication, and mutation of one of the two genes, as driver towards complexity, and the concept of cumulative natural selection appears to be alien to you as well. I suggest you study these issues.
 
friardchips said:
I like this post. 👍 I agree. In the immensity of His design - length, breadth…one can become awestruck. Another aspect to the fear and love of God. And I believe also that the physical evolution really is awesome.
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Indeed, physical evolution really is awesome as well. And the best part is that the universe contains the unmistakable handwriting of God in its exquisitely fine-tuned physical laws, see also my article:

Cosmological arguments for the existence of God
A philosophical perspective on findings of science

Without these incredibly special laws of nature any evolution (physical, chemical, biological) would not be possible in the first place. While atheists claim that evolution destroys the design argument, the opposite is true: the extreme fine-tuning of the laws of nature, making evolution possible, seriously impairs, if not outright destroys, the atheistic evolution argument.
 
Al_Moritz said:
Indeed, physical evolution really is awesome as well. And the best part is that the universe contains the unmistakable handwriting of God in its exquisitely fine-tuned physical laws, see also my article:

Cosmological arguments for the existence of God
A philosophical perspective on findings of science

Without these incredibly special laws of nature any evolution (physical, chemical, biological) would not be possible in the first place. While atheists claim that evolution destroys the design argument, the opposite is true: the extreme fine-tuning of the laws of nature, making evolution possible, seriously impairs, if not outright destroys, the atheistic evolution argument.
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Good post
 
truetofaith said:
Yes, I believe evolution within a species is a fact. I thought I made that clear. 🤷
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You posted:
There is still debate on evolution being a fact or a theory
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Hence, my statement that it’s fact.

You said you believe in evolution within the species, but belief doesn’t make it fact, even when I agree with you. 😉

Jim
 
latin_rite said:
Bible teaching ALWAYS trumps Church teaching.
Bible says 7 days. Then 7 days it was.
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Church interpretation of Scripture trumps personal interpretation.

The Church is the authority on teaching scripture to the faithful.

Jim
 
RACJ said:
Leaf, what we do know is that mutations are usually neutral or negative. Yet you and other evos continue to believe that billions of positive mutations brought us to today, without negative mutations blowing it all apart.
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Individuals who have negative mutations do not live long enough to reproduce. And if they do reproduce, their offspring will not be very successful either. The end effect is that negative mutations die when those individuals die. That does not “blow apart” the rare positive mutations in individuals lucky enough to get them. They survive and prosper and pass along those positive mutations to their offspring, and so that mutation becomes common.
You can believe this, but there is no evidence to support your contention.
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As Al Moritz said, pick up a textbook on genetics and you will see the evidence. I don’t have time to spoon-feed you a college-level course on genetics through this forum.
 
The only surprising thing about this statement is that some Catholics find it surprising. Pope Francis is at least the seventh Pope to accept evolution.

I agree with the various comments about the impact of American fundamentalism on some American Catholics. Catholics are not fundamentalists.
 
TMC said:
The only surprising thing about this statement is that some Catholics find it surprising. Pope Francis is at least the seventh Pope to accept evolution.

I agree with the various comments about the impact of American fundamentalism on some American Catholics. Catholics are not fundamentalists.
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YES! I haven’t come across many Catholics that don’t believe in evolution/intelligent design. The entire young earth theory that many fundamentalists and Mormons adhere to is so beyond reason that I end up being judgemental.:rolleyes:
 
If we went back and looked at what the early Church fathers had to say on the subject, it would be evident that the claims that some Catholics adhere to Evangelical Protestant positions are as offensive as they are ridiculuous.
 
I thought God created the cosmos 4 billion years ago and it has been slowly evolving every day since then. That seems to fit both scenarios and I thought this was the accepted view of the Church. ?
 
My Mom taught in Catholic Schools for years. She had a parent complain once because she presented the theory of Evolution to her class. The Pastor backed her up-told the parent that as Catholics we are much more concerned about the “who” in creation than we are about the “how”
 
ManOnFire said:
I thought God created the cosmos 4 billion years ago and it has been slowly evolving every day since then. That seems to fit both scenarios and I thought this was the accepted view of the Church. ?
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The Church doesn’t have a “view” on Evolution. It neither endorses it or opposes it. I personally believe the Earth is 4 billion years old. But I also believe God could have made it out of nothing in 7 days if he had so desired.
 
Exiled_Child said:
I agree completely, but I’ve entirely given up trying to convince others of this aspect of Church history.
However, I wish you luck with your efforts.😃
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How do I cyber-shake both your hands?

It really is distressing how defensive attitudes seem to be constantly adopted toward science and specialized knowledge in general. There is a tendency to want to reduce things to the simplest terms and to reject that which cannot easily be reduced in this way. This is seen even in the way classic texts (and even the Bible) are stripped of old English terms - because supposedly readers cannot be expected to appreciate anything but the ordinary and the everyday…Sorry, I digress.
 
ManOnFire said:
Our feeble scientific instruments will keep increasing the number of years toward infinity as time elapses, so I’ll go along with any age du jour.
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Some are even putting forth the idea of an infinite expansion, meaning the big bang has been happening for an infinity of time. Not sure if I buy it or what the reasoning/evidence is.
 
estesbob said:
The Church doesn’t have a “view” on Evolution. It neither endorses it or opposes it. I personally believe the Earth is 4 billion years old. But I also believe God could have made it out of nothing in 7 days if he had so desired.
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In my mind, I always couple the creation account, with the St Peter’s assertion that to the Lord, a thousand years is like a day. So I personally am not wedded to the concept of the 24-hr day in acknowledging God’s creation of the earth.

Taking the first chapter of Genesis literally presents (to me at least) mind-bending problems such as: how did the light come if the sun was not yet created? Ditto, morning and evening, or day for that matter.
 
Faxero said:
👍 I agree with you 100%. The Catholic Church allows for us to believe that God created the Universe via blasting it into existence. (Big bang) The theory of evolution is also morally acceptable to believe in, provided that we still acknowledge our special connection with God and our perpetual domination over all other animals.

We don’t need to take Genesis literally. As long as the main messages are clear, then everything is fine. Genesis asserts our special existence, not *how *we were made, but *who *we were made as. :hmmm:

Atheists commonly believe that Creationism is innately against evolution, but this isn’t the case. We don’t oppose evolution, we oppose the idea that we came from apes. 😉
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In relation to apes, how could humans have evolved from them when they are still present on earth today, as a separate species. Why didn’t ‘some’ of the apes not evolve into humans. :rolleyes:

The evolution theory of all other species, horses, etc… all their earlier templates died out millions of years ago - hence why would apes still be here alongside man.
 
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