Pope Francis: ‘Evolution … is not inconsistent with the notion of creation’

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The Church has been continually retreating from scientific evidence ever since we figured out what really caused rainbows.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
It’s an issue of translation.

Here’s another translation:

God is not some sort of wizard, said Francis, but rather “the Creator who brought all things into being.” The origin of the world derives directly “from a supreme Principle of creative love,” he added.

Jim
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This translation seems much better to me. Personally, I think the concepts of Creationism and Darwinian evolution are equally absurd. I agree completely with Francis’ statement; I don’t even see how someone could have a problem with it. He clearly isn’t advocating either position, he’s merely saying that neither one are out of line with Genesis.

And thanks for posting this, Jim, I enjoyed reading it.👍
 
moondawg said:
The Church has been continually retreating from scientific evidence ever since we figured out what really caused rainbows.
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retreating from scientific evidence ?

Not sure you mean this or not ?

Jim
 
moondawg said:
The Church has been continually retreating from scientific evidence ever since we figured out what really caused rainbows.
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Before the flood, the index of refraction of water was constant with wavelength.

Or humans were color-blind. Take your choice.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Your inability to imagine how this could have come to pass through gradual evolution does not constitute evidence that it could not have happened.
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You are right. I cannot “imagine” such a preposterous scenario. It’s just common sense to know that all the organs of an animal could not evolve independently, since they are all needed to harbor life as we know it. If this DID occur, at the very least the evos should acknowledge up front that a Creator had to have done this. Naturalism could not rally a paramecium into anything but another of its kind, ever. Rob 😉
 
Jon_S said:
No he did not remotely say that!!

He said quote,

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.

He says it is not so that God is a magician with a magic wand saying “poof a lion” “poof an apple” “poof the grand canyon”

I sincerely hope we can all agree that is not how it happened.
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If creation did not happened like it is stated in Genesis its one of two things, either God is a liar or the ones saying it did not happened as Genesis tell us it did are calling God a liar.

I hope the Pope and those who call themselves Christians who believe in evolution do not think God is a liar.
 
RACJ said:
You are right. I cannot “imagine” such a preposterous scenario. It’s just common sense to know that all the organs of an animal could not evolve independently, since they are all needed to harbor life as we know it. If this DID occur, at the very least the evos should acknowledge up front that a Creator had to have done this. Naturalism could not rally a paramecium into anything but another of its kind, ever. Rob 😉
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And yet we have things such as slime molds and ant colonies, where many smaller, simpler units come together to become a new type of organism, a community. And what makes you say that all the organs of an animal are needed? We have many examples of simpler animals with simpler sets of organs. The whole spectrum of the animal kingdom exhibits wide variety in the types of organs used, and yet all of them sustain life in their own way.
 
Evolution means a gradual change.
The giraffe after many generations of natural selection & survival of the fittest, evolved an elongated neck to reach vegetation which was out of reach.
Through the same process, humans evolved more developed brains.

But to say humans evolved from lower forms of animals such as apes…goes against the Bible, which says God took the dust of the earth, formed a man and breathed life into him.
God didn’t take an animal but made a separate creation for man!

Hopefully this is what the Catholic Church still believes.
 
Avdima said:
If creation did not happened like it is stated in Genesis its one of two things, either God is a liar or the ones saying it did not happened as Genesis tell us it did are calling God a liar.

I hope the Pope and those who call themselves Christians who believe in evolution do not think God is a liar.
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Or Genesis is not a scientific textbook??🤷
 
RACJ said:
You are right. I cannot “imagine” such a preposterous scenario. It’s just common sense to know that all the organs of an animal could not evolve independently, since they are all needed to harbor life as we know it. If this DID occur, at the very least the evos should acknowledge up front that a Creator had to have done this. Naturalism could not rally a paramecium into anything but another of its kind, ever. Rob 😉
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You can stomp your feet and use superlatives all you want. That does not constitute evidence. Common sense is not involved since there is nothing “common” about what happened millions of years ago. It is all equally uncommon, and therefore out of the domain of common sense. At one time it was thought that common sense indicated the world was flat. That is because the experience of seeing our globe with its 24000 mile circumference was beyond the common experience. Similarly millions of years of small changes adding up to macro-evolution is beyond the common experience of our limited lives. So of course it is going to seem uncommon.
 
Elizium23 said:
And yet we have things such as slime molds and ant colonies, where many smaller, simpler units come together to become a new type of organism, a community. And what makes you say that all the organs of an animal are needed? We have many examples of simpler animals with simpler sets of organs. The whole spectrum of the animal kingdom exhibits wide variety in the types of organs used, and yet all of them sustain life in their own way.
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I don’t have much need for my appendix…and can do well with one kidney or even one lung. It is far complex, and God’s fingerprints are everywhere. He designed it magnificently.

One should look at the complexities of a single cell up close and study that…I don’t see how someone can see that and not believe in a grand designer.
 
Jon_S said:
It is far complex, and God’s fingerprints are everywhere. He designed it magnificently.

One should look at the complexities of a single cell up close and study that…I don’t see how someone can see that and not believe in a grand designer.
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When properly presented and understood, evolution does not replace the idea of a grand designer. Instead it enhances the idea of a grand designer by displaying the equally magnificent mechanism that He used to accomplish his design.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
When properly presented and understood, evolution does not replace the idea of a grand designer. Instead it enhances the idea of a grand designer by displaying the equally magnificent mechanism that He used to accomplish his design.
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Exactly my argument!
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You can stomp your feet and use superlatives all you want. That does not constitute evidence. Common sense is not involved since there is nothing “common” about what happened millions of years ago. It is all equally uncommon, and therefore out of the domain of common sense. At one time it was thought that common sense indicated the world was flat. That is because the experience of seeing our globe with its 24000 mile circumference was beyond the common experience. Similarly millions of years of small changes adding up to macro-evolution is beyond the common experience of our limited lives. So of course it is going to seem uncommon.
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I won’t eliminate this as a possibility, but it seems the figurative language of creating us from the earth is to show that we are connected to the earth and other things. I see no
reason why God could have not created us by evolving over time in an animal like form, but at some point in history at just the right time. He took two of these creatures and breathed life into them, giving them their souls and setting them part as a new creation…humans as we know them.
 
Avdima said:
If creation did not happened like it is stated in Genesis its one of two things, either God is a liar or the ones saying it did not happened as Genesis tell us it did are calling God a liar.

I hope the Pope and those who call themselves Christians who believe in evolution do not think God is a liar.
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So you believe that God created the universe in six twenty four hour days ?

You believe the sky as described in the Bible is a dome ?

Accepting the science of evolution doesn’t negate the Bible.

Science makes the Bible more believable when understood correctly.

Jim
 
Are we still having this argument?

Well, I suppose this is a US forum…

People, just because the Evangelicals down the street believe it to be true doesn’t mean we have to. Literalist creationism is largely the work of fundamentalists and fideists, not Catholics. Drop it. It contributes nothing to the faith.

Evolution doesn’t necessarily, either. But it’s at least scientifically tenable. It has evidence to back it up.

But you don’t have to hold to either of them. It doesn’t matter. Just as long as we both agree God made the heavens and the earth, and the human soul, I think we can get along just fine without the fine points.
 
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