Pope Francis: ‘Evolution … is not inconsistent with the notion of creation’

[Hans_W]

I’ve posted that several times but the impenetrable barrier between science and God means some men prefer to believe they came from nothing and will die to nothing. The Creator cannot be scientifically proven, some say, so he doesn’t exist, which means right and wrong is whatever humans define as right and wrong. And rules from some mythical being? Hah!

Ed

Please do not equate science with atheism. This is an insult to millions of religious scientists!!

 

[Hans_W]

Eve was formed by God from Adam’s side while he was cast in sleep.

Ed

There are two camps who have it easy with Bible interpretation:

One group says it’s all nonsense concocted by a herd of peasants from the bronze age.
The other lot takes every word literally.

 

[edwest2]

Please do not equate science with atheism. This is an insult to millions of religious scientists!!

"Rejection of God

"In practice in modern academia this does not seem to be the case. We are told that one can believe in the Big Bang, cosmic evolution where stars and galaxies formed under processes that only involved natural laws over tens of billions of years, geologic evolution of our planet from slow and gradual (uniformitarian) processes over billions of years and biological evolution of life on Earth over billions of years, and also believe in the God of the Bible. But studies yield statistics that are contrary to that assertion. See Table below (figures in %):2

BELIEF IN PERSONAL GOD 1914 1933 1998

Personal belief 27.7 15 7.0

Personal disbelief 52.7 68 72.2

Doubt or agnosticism 20.9 17 20.8

BELIEF IN IMMORTALITY 1914 1933 1998

Personal belief 35.2 18 7.9

Personal disbelief 25.4 53 76.7

Doubt or agnosticism 43.7 29 23.3

"Note: The 1998 immortality figures add up to more than 100%. The misprint is in the original. The 76.7% is likely too high.

"Here Larson and Witham present the results of a survey that replicated the 1913 and 1933 surveys by James H. Leuba. In those surveys, Leuba mailed a questionnaire to leading scientists asking about their belief in “a God in intellectual and affective communication with humankind” and in “personal immortality”. In 1998 Larson and Witham used the same wording and sent their questionnaire to 517 members of the US National Academy of Sciences from the biological and physical sciences (the latter including mathematicians, physicists and astronomers). The return rate was slightly over 50%.

“The results show that those believing in a personal God, to whom we are responsible to obey, and the reward of immortality for doing so is much less that 10%.”

Do I believe there are scientists who believe in God? Of course. However, their work seems to have affected a significant number.

Ed

 

[Hans_W]

It’s simple. Nothing is proven in science.
Ed

I don’t want to become personal, but I wouldn’t post any comments on science if I had not the foggiest idea what science is and does.

 

[truetofaith]

"Rejection of God

"In practice in modern academia this does not seem to be the case. We are told that one can believe in the Big Bang, cosmic evolution where stars and galaxies formed under processes that only involved natural laws over tens of billions of years, geologic evolution of our planet from slow and gradual (uniformitarian) processes over billions of years and biological evolution of life on Earth over billions of years, and also believe in the God of the Bible. But studies yield statistics that are contrary to that assertion. See Table below (figures in %):2

BELIEF IN PERSONAL GOD 1914 1933 1998

Personal belief 27.7 15 7.0

Personal disbelief 52.7 68 72.2

Doubt or agnosticism 20.9 17 20.8

BELIEF IN IMMORTALITY 1914 1933 1998

Personal belief 35.2 18 7.9

Personal disbelief 25.4 53 76.7

Doubt or agnosticism 43.7 29 23.3

"Note: The 1998 immortality figures add up to more than 100%. The misprint is in the original. The 76.7% is likely too high.

"Here Larson and Witham present the results of a survey that replicated the 1913 and 1933 surveys by James H. Leuba. In those surveys, Leuba mailed a questionnaire to leading scientists asking about their belief in “a God in intellectual and affective communication with humankind” and in “personal immortality”. In 1998 Larson and Witham used the same wording and sent their questionnaire to 517 members of the US National Academy of Sciences from the biological and physical sciences (the latter including mathematicians, physicists and astronomers). The return rate was slightly over 50%.

“The results show that those believing in a personal God, to whom we are responsible to obey, and the reward of immortality for doing so is much less that 10%.”

Do I believe there are scientists who believe in God? Of course. However, their work seems to have affected a significant number.

Ed

All this belief & disbelief is fine & dandy in an academic discussion. The fact is our place in eternity is riding on our beliefs!

 

[Hans_W]

All this belief & disbelief is fine & dandy in an academic discussion. The fact is our place in eternity is riding on our beliefs!

Perhaps somebody could come up with a similar statistic of Catholics who believe in a six day creation, Eve coming from Adam’s rib etc. and how those beliefs have changed over the last 100 years. And please include Catholic opinions from around the world, not just the US.

 

[RGCheek]

​

What about Eve?

Obviously she was second to be ensouled and was his lifelong companion, always at his side, so to speak.

 

[edwest2]

Obviously she was second to be ensouled and was his lifelong companion, always at his side, so to speak.

There is no scientific evidence for this.

Ed

 

[Faith1960]

Perhaps somebody could come up with a similar statistic of Catholics who believe in a six day creation, Eve coming from Adam’s rib etc. and how those beliefs have changed over the last 100 years. And please include Catholic opinions from around the world, not just the US.

Id be interested in seeing those numbers. If anyone can find the info maybe they can start another thread.

 

[Hans_W]

Here is a short video (12 minutes) for people how are genuinely interested in the relation between science and religion.
It is a discussion between John Haught, Nancy Murphy and Ken Miller:

youtube.com/watch?v=WX57beyvM1s

All three are university professors and all three are Catholics.
John Haught is a theologian. Nancy Murphy is a theologian and philosopher of science. Ken Miller is a biologist.

 

[Faith1960]

There is no scientific evidence for this.

Ed

Theres no scientific evidence that Eve came from Adams rib. And please dont say men have one less rib than women. Someone actually said that and believed that.

 

[Faith1960]

Here is a short video (12 minutes) for people how are genuinely interested in the relation between science and religion.
It is a discussion between John Haught, Nancy Murphy and Ken Miller:

youtube.com/watch?v=WX57beyvM1s

All three are university professors and all three are Catholics.
John Haught is a theologian. Nancy Murphy is a theologian and philosopher of science. Ken Miller is a biologist.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Thorolfr]

You may want to look at something that’s less than 20 years old. Current research puts “Mitochondrial Eve” and “Y-chromosome Adam” as living at very nearly the same time: nature.com/news/genetic-adam-and-eve-did-not-live-too-far-apart-in-time-1.13478

Every living human can trace the DNA in their mitochondria back to just one woman. And every living man can trace his Y-chromosome back to just one man. The more these two are investigated, the closer the date ranges for their lives become - at this point, the ranges have a significant amount of overlap.

The article in Nature says, however:

In February, for instance, researchers led by Michael Hammer, a population geneticist at the University of Arizona in Tucson, reported the discovery of an African American family whose Y chromosomes do not seem to directly descend from Adam’s4. One possible explanation is that the Y chromosome came from an archaic species of human that interbred with Homo sapiens tens of thousands of years ago.

So not all modern humans are descended in their paternal line from so-called Y-chromosomal Adam.

 

[Faith1960]

The article in Nature says, however:

So not all modern humans are descended in their paternal line from so-called Y-chromosomal Adam.

I didnt think so.

 

[triumphguy]

So then where did Eve come from? I mean, i believe that God gave a soul to a homo sapien, we call adam. Someone said that Adam came from a group of homo sapiens and became human when he was given his soul. I agree. But then i think someone else said that Eve didnt come to us in the same way so where did she come from?

Do we need to know the answer to everything?

Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest? Do we need to know that?

How did their reproduce so rapidly? Do we need to know that too?

We aren’t protestant evengelical biblical literalists whose very faith rests on proving creationism right. We are Catholics with the greatest scientific heritage of any church, religion or culture.

And we don’t have to explain everything in order to be right. Do we know how Christ rose from the dead? Do we know the physics of how the Holy Eucharist is confected? Can we prove that purgatory exists?

 

[rossum]

You completely missed the point I was trying to make. Science gives us only probable knowledge, yes, but it is silly to regard it as “just probable” in the every-day sense.

Copper conducts electricity. Everybody knows that, you don’t need to be a physicist. Is this “absolute” knowledge? Not in the philosophical sense of absolute Truth, simply because we haven’t tested every piece of copper in the entire universe, past, present and future.

In that sense only mathematics can give us absolute Truth.

That doesn’t mean that we don’t know anything about the universe. You don’t go around teaching school kids that copper “probably” conducts electricity, or matter is probably made out of atoms, or that the universe is probably older than 10,000 years. It would be silly to say: The hydrogen atom, which probably exists, is made out of a proton and an electron, has such and such a mass and such and such a diameter, and absorbs light at such and such a wavelength.

We do know quite a lot for certain. Science is very good at that.

The parable of truth goes something like this…

When truth was born, it was visited by a magical fairy and blessed with three qualities: the ability to be absolute, the ability to be objective, and the ability to refer to the external world. The condition for this blessing was that truth could only exhibit a maximum of two of those qualities simultaneously. Therefore it could be absolute and objective, but not refer to the external world (mathematical truth). It could be objective and refer to the external world, but not absolute (scientific truth). Finally, it could be absolute and refer to the external world, but not objective (aesthetic truth).



rossum

 

[Kelt]

There are two camps who have it easy with Bible interpretation:

One group says it’s all nonsense concocted by a herd of peasants from the bronze age.
The other lot takes every word literally.

Yes!

 

[LoneTiger]

The Pope’s statement is clearly blasphemous and heretical! When you have a Pope saying that the words of the VERY FIRST BOOK OF THE BIBLE, aren’t true…YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM!!! But we Catholics/Christians should not be surprised but such statements, we have not had a real Pope since Vatican II. We’ve had nothing but anti-popes for 52 years now. For a Pope to say that God cant do it all is outright anti-christ and satanic!!! And these arent the only ethings this anti-pope has said… he’s also said that it’s dangerous and impossible to have personal relationship with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! And he’s openly clamouring for allowing open homosexuals to be a part of the church. It wont be long before he’s saying gay marriages should be allowed and performed by Catholic Priests!

We are living in the end times. I know every generation has thought that, but we are now at the cusp of it all really happening… Prophecies are being fullfilled, the first 2 of the 4 blood moons have already taken place, the illuminati’s satanic rituals are being thrown in our faces EVERYWHERE WE LOOK! You cant watch anything on tv anymore, including sports, without getting pyramid symbols thrown in our faces or seeing athelete’s or movie stars throwing up satanic hand gestures. THEY ARE STARTING TO ARREST CHRISTIAN MINISTERS FOR REFUSING TO PERFORM GAY MARRIAGES IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!! We have the constitutional right to Freedom of Religion, and it is being infringed upon. The new world order is here! I hope that somehow through prayer or something that this can be delayed, but it appears that at literally any second the 7 year tribulation could begin. There are many anti-christs out there today, but I think THE Anti-Christ could be revealed at any second! All of the infastructure to crash the world economy, begin world war 3, enstill martial law, require rfid (mark of the beast) chipping through obamacare is in place RIGHT NOW! It could all happen at any time… Even this anti-pope, francis, said he only expected to be around or live for another 2 or 3 years…that sound strange to anyone else??? Maybe this anti-christ pope knows that the satanic new world order is about to openly being to rule???

We all must repent and try to live better lives in Christ while we still can. We’re all sinners and it’s always been hard to live a Christian lifestyle but we must do our best. Stop attending ordinary mass services! Only attend Extraordinary Latin Mass services, partake in the true Eucharist. Search online and find a Cahtolic Church near you that still Loves and Adores Jesus Christ, and keeps the true mass.

 

[RACJ]

The Pope’s statement is clearly blasphemous and heretical! When you have a Pope saying that the words of the VERY FIRST BOOK OF THE BIBLE, aren’t true…YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM!!! But we Catholics/Christians should not be surprised but such statements, we have not had a real Pope since Vatican II. We’ve had nothing but anti-popes for 52 years now. For a Pope to say that God cant do it all is outright anti-christ and satanic!!! And these arent the only ethings this anti-pope has said… he’s also said that it’s dangerous and impossible to have personal relationship with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! And he’s openly clamouring for allowing open homosexuals to be a part of the church. It wont be long before he’s saying gay marriages should be allowed and performed by Catholic Priests!

We are living in the end times. I know every generation has thought that, but we are now at the cusp of it all really happening… Prophecies are being fullfilled, the first 2 of the 4 blood moons have already taken place, the illuminati’s satanic rituals are being thrown in our faces EVERYWHERE WE LOOK! You cant watch anything on tv anymore, including sports, without getting pyramid symbols thrown in our faces or seeing athelete’s or movie stars throwing up satanic hand gestures. THEY ARE STARTING TO ARREST CHRISTIAN MINISTERS FOR REFUSING TO PERFORM GAY MARRIAGES IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!! We have the constitutional right to Freedom of Religion, and it is being infringed upon. The new world order is here! I hope that somehow through prayer or something that this can be delayed, but it appears that at literally any second the 7 year tribulation could begin. There are many anti-christs out there today, but I think THE Anti-Christ could be revealed at any second! All of the infastructure to crash the world economy, begin world war 3, enstill martial law, require rfid (mark of the beast) chipping through obamacare is in place RIGHT NOW! It could all happen at any time… Even this anti-pope, francis, said he only expected to be around or live for another 2 or 3 years…that sound strange to anyone else??? Maybe this anti-christ pope knows that the satanic new world order is about to openly being to rule???

We all must repent and try to live better lives in Christ while we still can. We’re all sinners and it’s always been hard to live a Christian lifestyle but we must do our best. Stop attending ordinary mass services! Only attend Extraordinary Latin Mass services, partake in the true Eucharist. Search online and find a Cahtolic Church near you that still Loves and Adores Jesus Christ, and keeps the true mass.

I completely disagree with what Pope Francis said, but the expression of your thinking is way over the top, IMO. Blessings, Rob

 

[truetofaith]

Theres no scientific evidence that Eve came from Adams rib. And please dont say men have one less rib than women. Someone actually said that and believed that.

Do men have one less rib, and why?