Pope Francis: ‘Evolution … is not inconsistent with the notion of creation’

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triumphguy said:
Do we need to know the answer to everything?

Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest? Do we need to know that?

How did their reproduce so rapidly? Do we need to know that too?

We aren’t protestant evengelical biblical literalists whose very faith rests on proving creationism right. We are Catholics with the greatest scientific heritage of any church, religion or culture.

And we don’t have to explain everything in order to be right. Do we know how Christ rose from the dead? Do we know the physics of how the Holy Eucharist is confected? Can we prove that purgatory exists?
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**+ 1,000,000 ** 👍
 
triumphguy said:
Do we need to know the answer to everything?

Did the children of Adam and Eve commit incest? Do we need to know that?

How did their reproduce so rapidly? Do we need to know that too?

We aren’t protestant evengelical biblical literalists whose very faith rests on proving creationism right. We are Catholics with the greatest scientific heritage of any church, religion or culture.

And we don’t have to explain everything in order to be right. Do we know how Christ rose from the dead? Do we know the physics of how the Holy Eucharist is confected? Can we prove that purgatory exists?
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I’d still like some plausable ideas.
 
Hans_W said:
Here is a short video (12 minutes) for people how are genuinely interested in the relation between science and religion.
It is a discussion between John Haught, Nancy Murphy and Ken Miller:

youtube.com/watch?v=WX57beyvM1s

All three are university professors and all three are Catholics.
John Haught is a theologian. Nancy Murphy is a theologian and philosopher of science. Ken Miller is a biologist.
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I don’t find Ken Miller credible.

Ed
 
clem456 said:
The question seems to answer itself.
By Neanderthal, we assume a being that is non-human materially or spiritually.
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And yet they made tools and art and buried their dead. Aren’t those things we would usually associate with more advanced beings?
 
Thorolfr said:
And yet they made tools and art and buried their dead. Aren’t those things we would usually associate with more advanced beings?
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Yes. No debate they were smarter than the average bear.

But you asked if they had souls. The creation account in Genesis says that Adam and Eve were the first humans. While science notices the similarities, Genesis notices the unique creation that man is, while also noting that man names all the other creatures and his differences from them. Theology of the Body exposes this beautifully.

Also, it was pointed out earlier that other organisms have souls, and man has a rational soul, which is a distinction that is not often noticed, by me anyway.
 
Thorolfr said:
Did Neanderthals have souls?
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They were capable of interbreeding with humans. Some of us have Neanderthal DNA. Which means Neanderthals, like any human racial or ethnic group, were fully human. And had souls.

Peace,
Ed
 
Thorolfr said:
And yet they made tools and art and buried their dead. Aren’t those things we would usually associate with more advanced beings?
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Advanced being does not mean that they were ensouled.

What that criteria would be I don’t know, but I think it would have to have something to do with a moral conscience.

Is there any evidence of that for Neanderthals?
 
edwest2 said:
They were capable of interbreeding with humans. Some of us have Neanderthal DNA. Which means Neanderthals, like any human racial or ethnic group, were fully human. And had souls.

Peace,
Ed
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Why do you think having a soul is a genetic phenomenon?
 
edwest2 said:
They were capable of interbreeding with humans. Some of us have Neanderthal DNA. Which means Neanderthals, like any human racial or ethnic group, were fully human. And had souls.

Peace,
Ed
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I have done DNA testing through the National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project and I have 2.1% Neanderthal DNA and 1.5% Denisovan DNA. So it would be strange to think that some of my Homo sapiens sapiens ancestors interbred with beings which, according to some people in this thread, did not have souls. 😉
 
When a Homo sapiens sapiens interbred with a Homo sapiens neaderthalensis, were they “married” with one spouse having a soul and the other not having a soul?
 
RGCheek said:
Why do you think having a soul is a genetic phenomenon?
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I don’t think that. In the past, Neanderthals were classified as non-human, now, it is obvious they were fully human. There are two birds alive today that look almost identical but cannot breed. That is the problem when arguing “hominids.” Not enough data.

Ed
 
RGCheek said:
Advanced being does not mean that they were ensouled.

What that criteria would be I don’t know, but I think it would have to have something to do with a moral conscience.

Is there any evidence of that for Neanderthals?
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There is ample evidence for deliberate burials with grave goods - also artwork and objects which could have had spiritual/religious significance - which might reflect a moral conscience as well as recognition of a higher power. Based on all that, I see no reason to say that Neanderthals didn’t have rational souls.
 
Thorolfr said:
I have done DNA testing through the National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project and I have 2.1% Neanderthal DNA and 1.5% Denisovan DNA. So it would be strange to think that some of my Homo sapiens sapiens ancestors interbred with beings which, according to some people in this thread, did not have souls. 😉
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Biblical revelation tells us that man is a unique creation, “in God’s image” etc…
It seems to me our variegated dna fragments from lesser developed creatures doesn’t detract from the uniqueness of homo sapiens.

Fascinating questions which I wouldn’t pretend to have a scientific answer for.
 
clem456 said:
Biblical revelation tells us that man is a unique creation, “in God’s image” etc…
It seems to me our variegated dna fragments from lesser developed creatures doesn’t detract from the uniqueness of homo sapiens.

Fascinating questions which I wouldn’t pretend to have a scientific answer for.
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If anyone does have the answers, please chime in.
 
clem456 said:
It seems to me our variegated dna fragments from lesser developed creatures doesn’t detract from the uniqueness of homo sapiens.
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Neanderthals were also Homo sapiens. All humans today are Homo sapiens sapiens whereas Neaderthals were Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.
 
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