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Blessedwithfive
Guest
Nice comeback. I was offended by the rabbits comment. I guess even the Pope isn’t perfect. That must be why we are always asked to pray for him
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27lw
Guest
Yeah, someone should suggest that he be a little more careful speaking on the planes. That’s when he seems to come out with the weirdest statements.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
I agree!Nice comeback. I was offended by the rabbits comment. I guess even the Pope isn’t perfect. That must be why we are always asked to pray for him
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Evania
Guest
I agree that this should be a reminder that all of our priests/religious, including the Pope need our prayers.
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TCR74
Guest
We have three boys and a girl expected in July. I take the breeding like a rabbit as a compliment myself.
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dad_o_six
Guest
Tried to post earlier, but don’t think it went through. Apologize if this is redundant.
I was very offended by the Pope’s statement. These kinds of comments are becoming so common that I think they are accidentally-on-purpose. The Pope cannot change dogma. But he can change things pastorally by these kinds of misleading comments and by letters leaked accidentally-on-purpose. Most of the laity and certainly the media don’t catch the subtlety.
I have already been harassed about this by a bitter, former Catholic that I work with who knows I have seven children.
Not only does the “responsible parenthood” comment become an excuse for many to treat NFP just like birth control, or to just bypass NFP for birth control, but it also promotes an uncharitable relation to large families. It shows. Believe me, it shows.
As far as the woman with 7 C-sections goes, she is most likely damaged internally from that many C-sections. A good priest could advise her to get a hysterectomy or tubal, and that would be within the bounds of PRIVATE counsel. Actually, to ask her to use NFP or “to live as brother and sister” would be unconscionable as openness to fertility in this case (I suspect) implies openness to death of mother and/or child.
These are PRIVATE issues, with subtleties that cannot be conveyed via press statements. But I am greatly offended by the Pope. Those of us with larger families get treated badly enough. He’s just giving the modernists more fodder. I wonder what my grandmother, born around 1900, would have thought of this comment. She would have been deeply conflicted–wanting to be obedient but hearing the Pope contradict everything she believed.
I was very offended by the Pope’s statement. These kinds of comments are becoming so common that I think they are accidentally-on-purpose. The Pope cannot change dogma. But he can change things pastorally by these kinds of misleading comments and by letters leaked accidentally-on-purpose. Most of the laity and certainly the media don’t catch the subtlety.
I have already been harassed about this by a bitter, former Catholic that I work with who knows I have seven children.
Not only does the “responsible parenthood” comment become an excuse for many to treat NFP just like birth control, or to just bypass NFP for birth control, but it also promotes an uncharitable relation to large families. It shows. Believe me, it shows.
As far as the woman with 7 C-sections goes, she is most likely damaged internally from that many C-sections. A good priest could advise her to get a hysterectomy or tubal, and that would be within the bounds of PRIVATE counsel. Actually, to ask her to use NFP or “to live as brother and sister” would be unconscionable as openness to fertility in this case (I suspect) implies openness to death of mother and/or child.
These are PRIVATE issues, with subtleties that cannot be conveyed via press statements. But I am greatly offended by the Pope. Those of us with larger families get treated badly enough. He’s just giving the modernists more fodder. I wonder what my grandmother, born around 1900, would have thought of this comment. She would have been deeply conflicted–wanting to be obedient but hearing the Pope contradict everything she believed.
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Gorgias
Guest
Are you offended because you believe he was talking about your family?
Or are you offended because others might be thinking such things about you? (If so, wouldn’t this provide the perfect opportunity to point to the Pope’s words and retort, “you think he’s talking about us? That’s not me and my family – we’re a big family because we see the benefits of sharing our love with each other!”)
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Yeah, I hate planes too. Really confining, you can’t sleep, can’t stretch out, air is stale, food is horrible, stupid movies you can’t avoid, ground too far away…
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J_Peterson
Guest
He does seem to have issues when it comes to talking about women. Remember when he referred to Europe as a barren woman as if infertility makes a woman less than one who is fertile? Or the jibe about priest’s housekeepers? I think it’s a cultural thing within the Church. I’m guessing they don’t have much contact with women. Nobody’s perfect and I assume he has the best intentions and doesn’t mean to offend.Nice comeback. I was offended by the rabbits comment. I guess even the Pope isn’t perfect. That must be why we are always asked to pray for him
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FollowChrist34
Guest
I’m female. I think the Pope speaks too spontaneously. I don’t think he has a problem with women at all. He has made many comments about the important role women play in the Church and regularly advocates for its expansion. He is more of a “feminist” than I am. I think Teresa of Avila did all right without the women’s movement…so did Mary for that matter (but this is a different issue). Just saying I’ll defend him on this.
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J_Peterson
Guest
Maybe I spoke to strongly. I don’t really think that he believes that women’s leadership roles should be restricted to a priest’s housekeeper or that infertile women are useless but he has implied these things. I think you are right that this happens when he speaks off the cuff but that tells me that these types of attitudes are there in some form. I don’t think he hates women or wants to offend them but I do think that there is a germ of misogyny in those statements. I also don’t hold it against him. I’m sure he is aware of the reaction he gets and as a thoughtful man will put some thought to the criticisms.
My point though (which I tend to not express that well the 1st time around
) is that she shouldn’t take offense to these statements. I love Pope Francis and I don’t believe he intends to get people upset.
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phil19034
Guest
Please keep the following in mind… There are issues with the TRANSLATIONS from the Pope.
Even hear the expression “it’s not what you say, but how you say it”? The media is taking the Pope’s words and changing how he says it. The anti-Catholic, leftist media does it and so does the anti-Catholic, conservative media. They both twist the Pope’s words.
God Bless.
- the Pope NEVER said “breed like rabbits”… the media paraphrased him and changed his meaning.
- a figure of speech often doesn’t translate properly. A good translator needs to (a) be good at the language but also (b) has to properly express the intended meaning.
Even hear the expression “it’s not what you say, but how you say it”? The media is taking the Pope’s words and changing how he says it. The anti-Catholic, leftist media does it and so does the anti-Catholic, conservative media. They both twist the Pope’s words.
God Bless.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Yeah, who knows what he is saying.Maybe I spoke to strongly. I don’t really think that he believes that women’s leadership roles should be restricted to a priest’s housekeeper or that infertile women are useless but he has implied these things. I think you are right that this happens when he speaks off the cuff but that tells me that these types of attitudes are there in some form. I don’t think he hates women or wants to offend them but I do think that there is a germ of misogyny in those statements. I also don’t hold it against him. I’m sure he is aware of the reaction he gets and as a thoughtful man will put some thought to the criticisms.
My point though (which I tend to not express that well the 1st time around
That could take all day. My take is that he is just mocking the old stereotype of the big Catholic family (my grandmother came from that - 12 kids - Ireland) and saying that personal responsibility is part of family formation. I see more socialism here than misogyny. Did you catch that part? 
The economic systems based on greed creating poverty…for my part I don’t think he has a misogynist bone in his body, I really don’t. Catholics are more willing to talk about a woman’s biology as part of her humanity than the secular norm - I think that raises eyebrows these days. It’s where we are coming from, not him. IMHO. I am totally fine with you reading it otherwise…
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dad_o_six
Guest
Gorgias, I don’t think the Pope was speaking to me or families like me directly, mostly because my children are spaced. Although I think the Pope did say that three children is enough, which is really bothersome. But on the whole, I think he was referring to a certain form of blue ribbon Catholics who perhaps go overboard with having children. As a traditional Catholic, I know several families like this, God bless them. Being open to love and creation is one thing. But deliberately having as many children as possible, as an outward sign of a family’s faith is not so good. Still, at least these couples are trying to be Catholic. I suppose that is what I resent. When we attended the modernist Mass, I often felt judged by families with fewer children. Usually, it was subtle. Sometimes, it was unbelievably overt. But I ended wanting nothing to do with the New Mass. And I think comments like this just add more fuel to the fire. In my opinion, the Catholic church is not going to solve her problems by becoming more like the Protestants, or other faith groups.
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LightBound
Guest
Modernist Mass?
New Mass? Disparaging comments about the Mass in Ordinary Form are against forum rules. It’s fine that you prefer the Mass in EF, but please keep negative comments that refer to the Ordinary Form such as “modernist Mass” to yourself. It’s offensive to us that prefer that form of the Holy Mass and only serves to divide Catholics even further apart.
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Chuks_Jude
Guest
I come from a family of nine children. Indeed the comment is true. Today we have grown into a family of 9 children 24 grand children and 1 great grand child. We are always happy and see ourselves as truly a blest home and family of God. Christmas and other family activities is usually a wonderful full experience
thank God for our family
thank God for our family
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LongingSoul
Guest
I’m assuming by ‘birth control’ you are meaning contraception. Natural Family Planning is mutually exclusive to contraception and it misrepresents it by suggesting it can be.
I think that when people want to be praised for having a large family, they are too invested in appearances. Large families are a blessing from the Lord. That is why people offer their generous help to support them. The only large families to grate are those who think they are more holy and faithful than people with smaller families.
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Gorgias
Guest
Do you have a link to a more reliable (maybe even somewhat ‘official’) translation? I’ve been trying to find one, but have been unsuccessful…
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Catholic_farmer
Guest
He’s right. We have NFP for those who need a smaller family. But there is nothing wrong with big families either. I am a little fascinated by the big families in our parish. I have no idea how they do it, but they are thriving. I would call that talent and a special gift to be able to care for that many children. 
I took his rabbit comment as a reference to Catholic haters who say such things. The media did what the media does. Oh well.
I took his rabbit comment as a reference to Catholic haters who say such things. The media did what the media does. Oh well.
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