Pope Francis and his choices

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A bunch of Catholics are bashing Pope Francis because of his decisions. He doesn’t want to remove the Amazon synod idols. He’s betraying Catholics in China and the world. His teachings are contrary to church teaching. He called Islam a religion of peace, even though historically, it’s not so. the pope can’t just change church doctrine. I’m just so confused about different types of popes like false popes and evil popes.
 
There is lots going on in the world right now. The only thing in our control is ourselves. Take care of what’s yours to take care of, and offer all your struggles, in union with Christ, for your sins and the sins of the world.

This is when we the faithful make eye contact with Jesus and step out of the boat as Peter did, even with the wind and waves around us.
 
The Pope’s teaching, as coming from the chief authorized teacher of the church by divine institution, deserves a certain special respect and deference, but it is not absolute (accept in certain cases, more on this to come). He is a fallible sinner like the rest of us.

I like to think of it this way: in a classroom, a student should generally take to heart and mind what the teacher teaches. That is the rule–the teacher is authorized to teach and the student is there to learn. Students should not be disruptive, nor should they let the lesson go in one ear and out the other.

But sometimes the teacher might teach something that just doesn’t seem right to the student based on his prior learning from other trusted, authorized teachers. The student may need to seek further explanation or clarification. There’s nothing wrong with this.

The teacher may mistakenly get something clearly wrong, that the student might want to address with the teacher after class in a respectful way. He may even need to make sure other students do not accept the clear falsehood in the meantime. There might even be rare, extreme situations where a student might be obliged in conscience to stand up right then and there and defend the truth or good morals for the good of all.

The same is true of the Pope. We should never accept some novel doctrine or example he might provide contrary to the faith handed on. At the same time, we should give him (and anyone else really) the benefit of the doubt where possible that such a thing is not intended. Whether the Pope proposed it or not, we should not adore idols or embrace religious indifferentism, as if God positively willed a diversity of religions.

Pope’s are only infallible where, if they were to err, the the universal Church would abandon the faith or the Church of Rome–the Church in primacy–would be separated from the Church. In other words, when communion in the Church hinges on the Pope’s definitive judgment. But Popes say and do tons of things that have no effect on communion–in fact, Pope Francis has done nothing touching on this.

As St. Paul says, hold fast to the faith we have received and if even an angel from Heaven or an Apostle should tell us otherwise, we must reject it.
 
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To follow up on my post above, St. Vincent de Lerins Commonitorium is a good read on the topic of Tradition and Church authority, especially chapters 2 through 10 (paragraphs 4-28).

Later, he notes that God permits our authorized teachers to err, “to make trial of us, whether or not we love God with all our heart and with all our mind.” (par. 47). Further, he says

St. Vincent:
The Notes of a true Catholic.

[48.] This being the case, he is the true and genuine Catholic who loves the truth of God, who loves the Church, who loves the Body of Christ, who esteems divine religion and the Catholic Faith above every thing, above the authority, above the regard, above the genius, above the eloquence, above the philosophy, of every man whatsoever; who sets light by all of these, and continuing steadfast and established in the faith, resolves that he will believe that, and that only, which he is sure the Catholic Church has held universally and from ancient time; but that whatsoever new and unheard-of doctrine he shall find to have been furtively introduced by some one or another, besides that of all, or contrary to that of all the saints, this, he will understand, does not pertain to religion, but is permitted as a trial, being instructed especially by the words of the blessed Apostle Paul, who writes thus in his first Epistle to the Corinthians, There must needs be heresies, that they who are approved may be made manifest among you: 1 Corinthians 2:9 as though he should say, This is the reason why the authors of Heresies are not immediately rooted up by God, namely, that they who are approved may be made manifest; that is, that it may be apparent of each individual, how tenacious and faithful and steadfast he is in his love of the Catholic faith.
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And what if error seems to be spreading?

St. Vincent:
[7]…What, if some novel contagion seek to infect not merely an insignificant portion of the Church, but the whole? Then it will be his care to cleave to antiquity, which at this day cannot possibly be seduced by any fraud of novelty.
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As God said to Jeremiah
Jer. 6:16 Thus says the Lord:
“Stand by the roads, and look,
and ask for the ancient paths,
where the good way is; and walk in it,
and find rest for your souls.
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DictatorCzar said:
He doesn’t want to remove the Amazon synod idols.
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Who says they’re idols?
DictatorCzar said:
He’s betraying Catholics in China and the world.
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How?
DictatorCzar said:
His teachings are contrary to church teaching.
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How so? Please provide evidence to support this claim.
DictatorCzar said:
He called Islam a religion of peace, even though historically, it’s not so.
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Where and when? Please provide a quote.
 
I think you are extending papal infallibility way further than the bounds of the actual dogma. I believe the infallibility is only for when a pope speaks ex cathedra to define a doctrine of faith and/or morals for the whole church. The pope cannot be in error then and the church has a guarantee that what is taught in that context is true. In the last century this only happened once, in 1950, for the dogma of the Assumption.
 
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The OP identifies as “Christian,” which could mean a Protestant Christian. If so, it’s always interesting when outsiders tell me how to live my Catholic Christian faith.
 
tagtotaloffice . . .
every other Pope has the infallible gift of faith. He can not teach against the Church, or even want to privately.
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The Church has never taught this.

If and when he is teaching infallibly on faith and morals, he must make his manifest will known.

He must make it clear he is speaking infallibly.

There are other conditions the Church teaches as well.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
DictatorCzar said:
His teachings are contrary to church teaching.
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Impossible, Pope is infallible on faith and morals. Don’t spread lies and falsehoods simply because you don’t like Pope Francis. Pope Francis was selected by the Holy Spirit. If you have any issue with him, take it up with the Holy Spirit and explain how you know better than God Himself what is right for the Church.
 
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Genesis315 said:
The same is true of the Pope. We should never accept some novel doctrine or example he might provide contrary to the faith handed on.
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is everyone reading your instructions here allowed to reject doctrine they don’t feel is right based on what someone they have deemed authoritative has said?
 
The poster is not referring to the Dogma of Papal Infallibility, but rather the personal never-failing faith of the Pope.
Cathoholic said:
The Church has never taught this.
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The Church has indeed taught it:
Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: “I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”[60]

This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this See so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine. Thus the tendency to schism is removed and the whole Church is preserved in unity, and, resting on its foundation, can stand firm against the gates of hell. (Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Æternus, nn. 6-7, my emphasis)
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I think it’s really cool that your faith is strong and true enough to see those errors! I think there is nothing bad about calling out evil actions. The world right now very much needs Holy men and women to proclaim the truth and to call our evil and false things! That said we are still called to love and show reverence for the papacy!
 
Your quote does not say this . . . .
every other Pope has the infallible gift of faith. He can not teach against the Church, or even want to privately.
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Emphasis mine.

.
Your quote DOES say this . . . .
This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this See so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock . . .
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Emphasis mine.

The “might” has certain conditions.

When I get to a computer later I will put them up.
 
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DictatorCzar said:
I’m just so confused about different types of popes like false popes and evil popes.
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I’m sorry you feel this way, but for the future you should be careful with how you phrase things. I don’t think you’re trying to bash Pope Francis here, but a lot of people are going to interpret your post that way, and this will likely spark an argument that consumes your thread.

As for your problem, I can sympathize and I have a friend who is struggling with the exact same thing. I don’t really agree with the advice that you should simply shut your eyes so you can’t see anything upsetting. The idea seems to me to be so shockingly inappropriate that I must in charity conclude that I’m just not understanding properly.

What I have told my friend, and which I would tell you, is that the Pope is not infallible to the bone, and can make mistakes or even sins just like the rest of us. A statement made Ex Cathedra is infallible, but a decision regarding the relations between the Church and the Chinese Government is not, and can be a poor one (or even a corrupt one, as we see in some historical cases).

A lot of us that aren’t from a Catholic background often start off with a lot of false assumption about the Papacy. The truth is that Catholics aren’t Sola Papa, and you don’t need to be too concerned about everything he does. If someone believes that the Infallibility of the Pope extends to his every action, then any little scandal would rightly shake their faith.
Since it doesn’t, however, you can rest assured that the Catholic Faith doesn’t depend on the Pope being superhuman, and his human tendencies don’t need to be scrutinized by us.
 
The Roman Pontiff: Immunity from Grave Error and Never-failing Faith | Catholicism.io this limited inerrancy that is popular is not the teaching, just like the limitation of inerrancy and infallibility to whatever one specifically defines as an “assertion” in scripture is not the teaching of the Church on that. It is a total and complete gift preventing the Pope from falling out of supernatural faith. As long as he is Pope, he will have the faith, and will not lose it. It’s really not even that big of a gift to be prevented from losing the faith for a time, many laymen have kept it whole from childhood without error, and for even longer than the Popes! But it does keep him from heresy and is a hedge against idolatry and apostasy, serving to condemn those who condemn him and guide us, to always know where the faith is…
Cathoholic said:
If and when he is teaching infallibly on faith and morals, he must make his manifest will known.

He must make it clear he is speaking infallibly.
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See the same link
 
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