Pope Francis approves correction of words of the Lords Prayer and Gloria in Italian Missal

[HomeschoolDad]

Then you & Mom should be upset with the Italian Bishop’s conference. They have been working on a new translation of the Mass for years. They finally had something to submit for APPROVAL. The Holy Fatger himself did not make this change.

For crying out loud people, if you’re not in Italy or Italian, ya’ll need to chill.

No, heart of Appalachia.

When we read the report, it wasn’t readily apparent that it was only a regional change, and not an imminent worldwide one. When the matter of “changing prayers” has come up in the past few years… well, let’s just say there have been issues. There are some who are in the height of their glory when they are changing forms of worship. We wouldn’t be among those.

I am quite confident that my dear mother could not care less what happens in Italy. For my part, I can decipher Italian up to a point, if I have to. My only concern would be whether it mirrors “ne nos inducas in tentationem”, or alternatively, the Greek of the New Testament (or even the original Aramaic if we had it).

The traditional Our Father in classical literary English is iconic and there are many people, of all Christian stripes, who would not welcome any changes in the language to which they’ve become accustomed. Some say “debts” instead of “trespasses”.

 

[Padres1969]

That’s a good point as to why changing it might not be in anyone’s best interests. If the Catholic version suddenly strays after centuries from the rest of English speaking Christianity, it’s just another item to be used against Catholicism. Another change wrought by Rome so to speak for those who oppose Catholicism or who doubt it.

 

[angel12]

Another change wrought by Rome so to speak for those who oppose Catholicism

And the Church shouldn’t do anything anti-Catholics may not like? That’s a new one.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Another change wrought by Rome so to speak for those who oppose Catholicism or who doubt it.

No, not another change by Rome.
The Italian Bishop’s conference has been working on a new translation for years, under JPII and BXVI. Francis is just the poor guy who approved it and now he is the bad guy.

 

[pnewton]

I have seen a two things I take issue. The first I consider to be a sin, that is, assuming the worst of motives of the Holy Father. This is the sin of rash judgement. We are to assume more favorable guesses, if we must assume, and not rush to apply evil motives to the Holy Father.

The second thing I just find amusing, as I reflect back to a saying of my father about the King James Version. “If the King James Bible was good enough for Paul and Silas, it’s good enough for me.”

 

[Padres1969]

It was a turn of phrase others use or will use. I’m well aware of the genesis of this particular change.

 

[CilladeRoma]

The phrase is incorrect though, and it is contributing to a lot of rash judgment against the Holy Father.

 

[Padres1969]

Indeed. And this is a change not in English. Imagine changing the English translation after more than 1000 years… it’ll go over like a lead balloon.

 

[CilladeRoma]

You mean kind of like the new English translation of the Confiteor and the Creed a few yeara ago?

 

[Padres1969]

Even more so seeing as it’s a biblical prayer and arguably the oldest prayer in Christianity. And one that has been far more consistently worded across the board for a millennia.

The Nicene Creed has been far more flexible in its verbiage in that time that one more modification wasn’t nearly as big of a deal.

 

[Prodigal1984]

We are aloud to have views on things the Holy Father is doing unless he speaks infallibly which is very rare.

 

[ProVobis]

Imagine changing the English translation after more than 1000 years…

That would be Chaucer. I doubt if anyone would notice.

 

[pnewton]

"Things he does," yes. However, if you don’t want to take my opinion on why it is sin to judge his motives , then perhaps you will take the “opinion” of the Catholic Church.

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

 

[Rational1]

CilladeRoma:

Then you & Mom should be upset with the Italian Bishop’s conference. They have been working on a new translation of the Mass for years. They finally had something to submit for APPROVAL. The Holy Fatger himself did not make this change.

For crying out loud people, if you’re not in Italy or Italian, ya’ll need to chill.

No, heart of Appalachia.

When we read the report, it wasn’t readily apparent that it was only a regional change, and not an imminent worldwide one. When the matter of “changing prayers” has come up in the past few years… well, let’s just say there have been issues. There are some who are in the height of their glory when they are changing forms of worship. We wouldn’t be among those.

I am quite confident that my dear mother could not care less what happens in Italy. For my part, I can decipher Italian up to a point, if I have to. My only concern would be whether it mirrors “ne nos inducas in tentationem”, or alternatively, the Greek of the New Testament (or even the original Aramaic if we had it).

The traditional Our Father in classical literary English is iconic and there are many people, of all Christian stripes, who would not welcome any changes in the language to which they’ve become accustomed. Some say “debts” instead of “trespasses”.

The problem as I see it is with the reporting. If the reporting was deceptive or inaccurate then I would question their motives or competence to provide factual information to their readers.

 

[F_Marturana]

I think before social media became a thing, an Italian translation change wouldn’t have been breaking news in the US.

Unless you live in Italy it doesn’t concern you.

An aside, for years I prayed “Hail Mary the Lord is with you.” My seventh grade teacher started us praying that way and it stayed for me. I ended up switching back to “thee” because everyone still uses “thee”