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Hoosier_Daddy
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How does one become a saint?
Pope Francis assures sceptics: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven
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TMC
Guest
- Die.
- Go to Heaven.
- Let someone know you are in Heaven, preferably someone with enough pull to get you canonized.
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pnewton
Guest
That is the question for us all, isn’t it. There are many spiritualities that one can do to help, but it the end, it all leads to the direction the Lord gives, that we love the Lord our God with all our mind, soul and heart and our neighbor as ourselves.
I would say the one element that we have lost in our generation is the desire for sanctity. God is not playing hide and seek with us. We are not saints because we do not wholely want to be (or holy want to be, to use a bad pun
). I think sometimes the treasurehouse we have in the canonizes Saints backfires when we get it into our head that these guys and gals are some how celebrities in a way none of us normal folk can be. We keep talking about how everyone (almost) goes through Purgatory and before long we have convinced ourselves that sanctity is beyond most of us. So I will say that we must desire to be a saint. Step one is setting that as our goal, accepting that it is something we can be.
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AngelicStars
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pope Francis is Pope Francis he is human and It is Jesus who saves never mind about all this man made doctrines which Jesus warned us about such as leaven of bread and the pharisees…
And nobody can come to God except through Jesus i.e following through his example and Jesus had very very Close relationship with God and God was very pleased with Jesus so there !! You cannot not know God and abide in God and go to Heaven!!! to make no time and live life without making any time, to get to know God and love and honour and do his will is essential there! One day Pope Francis will be severely punished if he continues to teach false heretics …
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pnewton
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I do not know why you chose to jump on as post here, but you need to check the rules here, as well as the rules of grammar, rules of logic, rules of propriety, etc.
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Lapey
Guest
“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Jesus”…St. Jerome.
Only way you can make the statements you make here is through pure ignorance.
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shelby_sun
Guest
I know this is a long thread so I don’t know how much you have read, but you need to go back and at least read Bro. post which might clear some things up for you. Pope Francis has not taught false heretics.
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Bible_is_truth
Guest
Hi , anyone who does not understand the Will of God ,this mainly through his word, not man’s, Why Jesus came for us, and who Melchizedek is, may not know or understand what God intended through His Son. I study Faiths ,Cults, and False Doctrines ,I am Looking also into what ,how, where Faiths Started, who runs them and More interesting what their purposes are, Scripture is very clear on these items, although it is not for me to say who will or will not be punished , we can only point out to them what Jesus says on the matter and even an Angel Argueing with Satan said to him ,The Lord Rebuke you, Basically until one reads and Understands by cross reference of scripyure and its context from original scripture ,people will go by Mans way,normally because as in scripture it is easier to follow man than Jesus or they do not feel up to scripture teachings,my findings are normally the same with various ideas of how one serves their God, sadly many are miss led ,they do not want to read Gods word for themselves ,even I after Church do check out what my Minister said to see if it abides in Gods word,as My Minister says even he is Human and still prays for the Holy Spirits guidance. No one is in fallible,Only God can open the eyes of those who truly seek him,through His Son Jesus,Not through anyone else, as you rightly say Jesus is the only way NO mediator in between, as this focuses on that being and becomes Idol worship. I Pray direct to Jesus no in between image, or Idol, picture or anything that takes away my Focus on Jesus. hope this may be extra help for all . Blessings to you.
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David_H_TX
Guest
Thank you so much for your insight on this. This is fantastic! I have been so confused by what our Holy Father said in this article. I’m not anywhere near on the level you all on this forum are. I’m just ordinary an ordinary Catholic. However, I am very analytical by nature; if you ask my wife she will say to a fault more times than not.Then he says this about unbelievers, which makes much more sense of his statements in that letter.
I believe this paragraph is the context of the conversation the Pope was having in his letter. The Dr. had already read this, and so presumably already knew Francis taught and believed we need faith in God to get to heaven. But wanted more details, do we believe God will forgive those who don’t believe? And we already know Francis’ answer.
Of course, we couldn’t expect the secular news to have read some of the Pope’s official writings to understand where he’s coming from and what he’s ACTUALLY taught and believes. Instead they twist a paragraph out of context of a letter to a specific individual.But for me, this context helped me understand a little better what the Pope was trying to say.
It just seemed unfair to assume the pope would so radically depart from Catholic doctrine like that article said. Turns out the Pope doesn’t believe or teach that, he was writing to a seeker who had already read his encyclical, and so didn’t see the need to repeat what he’d already said.
Yes, the Pope really is Catholic folks, no matter how badly the media wants him not to be.
Now I’m going to go and order Lumen Fidei and read the whole thing. The parts I read were pretty awesome.
I have been praying the Lord would clear this up for me and remove my doubts. I too will be ordering a copy of our Holy Father’s encyclical. Thanks again for your help.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
One thing I think Fr. Bede was trying to get at was that Christ is already present in any desire to seek God regardless of tradition, especially in the contemplative aspect of the quest.
Some intersting article in these newsletters:
bedegriffithssangha.org.uk/
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Mario_Frank
Guest
catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077
Open Wide the Doors for Christ. Do not be Afraid. - Papa John Paul II
Open Wide the Doors for Christ. Do not be Afraid. - Papa John Paul II
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PeopleB4Things
Guest
If you lived in an area where you were never exposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ and you were a good moral person, living your life in the image of Christ, I think you would be saved. So acknowledging Christ is not necessarily a requirement. Besides, God in not shackled by rules and regulations. He has infinite power to forgive and save whomever he wants.Oh man. The protestants are going to have a field day! I’ve spent the better part of my Catholic life saying that the Church does not teach that you earn your way to heaven but rather that through Works AND Faith we are saved. Turns out. It is only works…
Imagine a non-religious person who spends her life as an aid-worker in countries where people have been displaced by war and or internal strife. She works tirelessly helping people access food, clothing and medical assistance. Her work puts her in climates that are bug infested, hot and dusty. She risks retribution or arrest by unfriendly factions. She is truly sacrificing every day for others.
Then there’s me. I accept Jesus as my savior, I go to church every week, and I ensure that my children receive religious education. I work a desk job and share some of my earnings with my church. I volunteer a few hours each week working with a church ministry.
When I look at these two scenarios, it’s not hard to see which one of us is better at walking the road of Christ. My non-religious aid-working friend is a far more worthy of being saved than I’ll ever be. I think God can see that too.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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Works without faith mean nothing. Faith without works means nothing. If one dies in mortal sin one cannot go to heaven. And baptism now saves you. With baptism, which cleans original sin which your “aid worker” would be forever stained with, we can get around it with the idea of “baptism by desire” Which is not really defined on how or when this could happen. Like you say, God is not bound by the sacraments. But the sacraments, being the ordinary means for salvation tell us that they are not only the easiest way for salvation but that they are God’s will. He instituted them and without them a hard task like going through the eye of a needle is possible. But without them? man, I would hate to hang my eternity on that!
Then, we have the problem of no faith in God. Said woman could very well be wiccan. Or even an atheist. In all her good works she could just not have faith.
Also, we have this idea that her “good works” make up for her bad. NOt only is this not a christian view, it is not even Jewish.
There is not a biblical example where someone was Just “good” and Jesus saved them. It always comes with an acknowledgement of Him. Always. From the thief to the cross, to the woman at the well, to the Roman Centurion.
Then we have the history of our faith. Where men and women died and were persecuted to spread the gospel. We cower because we might hurt someone’s feelings or make someone feel judged yet many holy saints died to spread the Gospel and they did so, not because they wanted to educate, but they wanted to save souls. Now, we hesitate to engage in ANY public dialogue for the faith lest we are defreinded on facebook.
Now, to mortal sin.
This is the biggie. If the woman commits one mortal sin in her life. She could live a thousand lifetimes of good works and she would be shut out of heaven. If she adulterated, murdered, contraceptive, was angry with her brother, etc. Her sins would be retained. There is no vehicle for her to have her sins forgiven. None. How does one go through life without mortal sin? It is possible. It has been done. BUT it is very rare. Mary did it. And she is the only human to have ever done both been free from original sin and also actual sin. Adam and Eve were free from original sin, but then had actual sin. Every human on the planet since has had at least original sin. And Original sin is a deal breaker for heaven. Throughout salvation history God promised someone to save us from our sins. Original and actual. From the garden on he promised a savior. That savior is Jesus. And Salvation only comes through Him and the CHurch that He established. This is rock solid Catholic Doctrine. It always has been and always will be. NO one is saved by any other means. Should Jesus himself choose to work salvation though other means then fine. But I would not hang my hat on that! If so, so many martyrs died in vain.
There are no Saints outside the Church. The Church has never declared your “aid worker” which by the way is (hand in hand with the culture of death) I’m sorry, but if you are looking for a devotion to saint Gandhi, you will be sorely disappointed.
Personally I find the path to heaven immensely difficult. I stumble, I fall, I sin, I do all sorts of human things leading me away from heaven. It is through the seven sacraments only offered by the CHurch that I can find heaven, and even then my friend it is only with fear and trembling do I attempt to work out my own salvation. Were it not for confession, I would go to hell. Were it not for my baptism, I would go to hell. Were it not for the ordination of the priests who lead and feed me, I would go to hell, were it not for the Eucharist, showering me with graces and cleansing my soul, I would surely burn in hell. Were it not for my wonderful wife and our life giving love, I would go to hell and my children would not exist to try to go to heaven. Were it not for my confirmation in the faith, I would not access the other saving sacraments and go to hell. And I pray that I have the opportunity to have the sacrament of extreme unction before I die so I may not burn in Hell.
This is it. The barque of Peter is the only boat on the stormy sea of humanity. If one wants to think that without the boat a really good swimmer (your aid worker) can survive the storm of life. Well, I don’t know what to say to that.
Except, Preach the gospel and go to confession and cling to the boat. And try to find others in the water and bring them INTO THE BOAT! Don’t just marvel at their swimming!
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k5rakitan
Guest
I think that God speaks to everyone in different ways. Maybe it’s not so much that people don’t believe in God, but they don’t believe in the Church.
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